wavy joint question

Djay Customs

Djay Customs

Designer for JB Cases
Hi all cuemakers ;)

I got a friend, he have a 314-1 shaft 3/8x10
he's very satisfy with his predator shaft..
but now he bought a 2nd hand exceed cue (only butt)
and he want to use his 314-1 on it, but that shaft have a 3/8x10
the exceed got a mezz wavy joint it's 3/8x9...
But what I wanna know, is there a 3/8x9 tap??

thanks DJ
 
I'm going to hang a question on your thread. Sorry to invade.

What the heck is a wavy joint? I have seen the term and looked at the joint...but how in the heck is it "wavy"?




Thanks...

.
 
Chopdoc said:
I'm going to hang a question on your thread. Sorry to invade.

What the heck is a wavy joint? I have seen the term and looked at the joint...but how in the heck is it "wavy"?




Thanks...

.
Click to expand...

wavy.jpg

js.jpg
 
Thanks. As I said, I have looked at it. I know I must be missing something simple and obvious but I just don't get how it is "wavy".

Maybe this is just me being stupid. :o




.
 
The bastard threads just keep coming. Thanx Mezz. Looks like a winner.
I don't claim to be a threading specialist so the advantage of this thread totally escapes me.
Does this make sense to anyone outside of the Mezz Marketing Dept.???
I don't see this thing making any 'waves' (pardon the pun) in the billiard world but
if I've gotta buy this tap, I ain't gonna be likin it.
Better call Atlas just to be enlightened.
 
DoubleD said:
I just got home from shooting with the Huebler I recently acquired. It is a 5/16-18 screw. This is an actual thread that you can walk into any hardware store and buy a tap/die for. You can buy threaded rod in this size, in stainless or brass (and regular steel) at the same hardware store. Interestingly enough, my cue stayed together the entire time I was playing. I even made a couple of balls with it. Weird.

dld
Click to expand...



No! Say it ain't so! :eek:


It stayed together!


It didn't get stuck together or anything?

And you made balls with it? In pockets?


Surely you are lying. You shouldn't lie on forums.

Huebler was a master cue maker, but he was surely senile using that thread. He was behind the times, that's the only explanation. Didn't he know that only cheap Asian import cues are supposed to use such a thing?

Everybody knows that the TPI is inversely proportional to the quality of the play of a cue. I heard that a certain maker is working on a 2 TPI thread pin that will make a pro player out of any jackass that picks it up.


It played OK? A Huebler? 18 thread? Stop telling stories. :rolleyes:
 
KJ Cues said:
The bastard threads just keep coming. Thanx Mezz. Looks like a winner.
I don't claim to be a threading specialist so the advantage of this thread totally escapes me.
Does this make sense to anyone outside of the Mezz Marketing Dept.???
I don't see this thing making any 'waves' (pardon the pun) in the billiard world but
if I've gotta buy this tap, I ain't gonna be likin it.
Better call Atlas just to be enlightened.
Click to expand...

it's jsut another pin. you hit it on the nose. because of that pin if you own the cue you have to buy a mezz shaft.

people keep buying mezz cues because they make a good products. it's that simple. they out play most of the US made production cues and they look better too.
 
KJ Cues said:
The bastard threads just keep coming. Thanx Mezz. Looks like a winner.
I don't claim to be a threading specialist so the advantage of this thread totally escapes me.
Does this make sense to anyone outside of the Mezz Marketing Dept.???
I don't see this thing making any 'waves' (pardon the pun) in the billiard world but
if I've gotta buy this tap, I ain't gonna be likin it.
Better call Atlas just to be enlightened.
Click to expand...

Same here. Not sure why this is better either. :confused:
 
DoubleD said:
No, this is them being stupid. I've taken a closer look at the thread and what it appears that they have done is actually cut a second shallow thread following the main thread. Thus instead of having the thread come to a point, it comes to a double point--the second shorter than the first.

It is hard to put into words how utterly asinine this is. I kind of hope that everybody involved in this has to defend this to retain their jobs.

I will say that they got the locating pin at the tip correct--even if they call it a 'shoulder' (which it distinctly isn't--shoulders are wider than the threads...kind of like a persons shoulders are wider than their necks and heads). Using a tight locating feature at the end of the screw nominally makes sense.

dld (frustrated engineer)
Click to expand...

i actually just bought a mezz axi-k. it comes with the wavy joint. if anyone's interested i can provide pictures and specs/

i'm actually considering having someone replace the wavy joint with a flat bottom 3/8-10 pin. that way if i want to i can try just about any shaft around. anyone know what something like that might cost?

it'll be a little while anyway though. when it gts here i'm going to have the wrap changed. i'm thinking solid blakc irish linen but if i can find someone to do a leather wrap at a decent price i might go with that instead.

anyone want some pictures of the actual pin and shaft thread when i get it in? should be here on monday
 
I have made several shafts with this joint and it's ultra tight.
Wood to wood joint is for sure my "hit" and this is one that tightens the shaft well.
Special threads has been arround for a long time both on US and other cues so nothing new on this. Thats why I have a custom made tap for this thread-and no, I do not sell these taps but can make shafts when time permits.

Your buddy could most likely get a new Pred shaft for his Exeed cue - made by Mezz. Let me know and I can check with the factory or have you buddy check it up in your end (preferred)-if he's not desperate to have his old shaft fitted to the cue.

K
 
DoubleD said:
... As far as the bastard thread issue, I have little problem with any thread that is made using engineering standards--i.e. 60deg. vee-threads and *possibly* Acme threads. It is when someone does something like flat-bottom, radial, wavy or 25deg. (or whatever uni-lock is) that I get irate.
Click to expand...

So you feel the modified (flat-bottomed) 3/8-10 screw offers no advantage(s) over the standard 3/8-10 screw? Here's a visual comparison from Bob Dzuricky's site: http://www.dzcues.com/images/joints/IMG_3047a.jpg
 
DoubleD said:
Flat bottom 3/8-10 pin, as far as I understand, will require the regular 3/8-10 shaft minor diameter to be enlarged. As far as I am concerned, the flat bottomed pin is almost as idiotic as the Wishy-washy-wavey appears to be.

If you do change the pin, can I buy the wavey from you? I collect funny/stupid objects.

dld
Click to expand...

yeah man sure. if i do end up doing this (i'm on the fence about it i figure i'm 30/70 to do it) u can have the pin.

of course now that i see there's another cue maker on here that can make shafts for the pin i might not need to.
 
DoubleD said:
The axial force of a screw joint (in any form, not just cues) is a function of torque applied, the friction in the joint and the diameter of the pin. Thus, this pin will provide no more and no less axial force (which is all that matters in a screw joint) than any other 3/8" diameter pin--UNLESS there is a bunch of friction from the screw itself (i.e. the shaft is tight on the pin), in which case there will be less axial force in the joint (maybe nominal, maybe not).

The interesting thing about screw torque vs. axial force is that as the diameter of the pin goes up, the axial force goes down. Thus, a 5/16" pin provides ~17% more axial force than a 3/8" pin--all other factors being equal (we'll assume that the major factor, torque, is equal because that only changes depending on how much the user can/does generate).

Thus, I have proven that you are either wrong when you say it is 'ultra tight' (if you mean that it tightens the shaft to the butt more than other pins) or that 'ultra tight' is not a good quality (if the shaft is tight on the pin).

As far as the bastard thread issue, I have little problem with any thread that is made using engineering standards--i.e. 60deg. vee-threads and *possibly* Acme threads. It is when someone does something like flat-bottom, radial, wavy or 25deg. (or whatever uni-lock is) that I get irate.

dld
Click to expand...

you didn't prove him wrong. he said it makes it ultra tight. tight is tight man. you're trying to make it sound like the guy's a schmuck just because he disagreed with you
 
poolplayer2093 said:
you didn't prove him wrong. he said it makes it ultra tight. tight is tight man. you're trying to make it sound like the guy's a schmuck just because he disagreed with you
Click to expand...

Tight is not just tight, man.

What he said was 60 degree 'vee' threads hold the shaft 'tighter'
as in more axial force to the butt than any other kind - which is correct,
and that a 'tighter' fit of threads - as in more restiance when screwing them
together, is badder, not gooder.
 
Last edited:
DoubleD said:
The axial force of a screw joint (in any form, not just cues) is a function of torque applied, the friction in the joint and the diameter of the pin. Thus, this pin will provide no more and no less axial force (which is all that matters in a screw joint) than any other 3/8" diameter pin--UNLESS there is a bunch of friction from the screw itself (i.e. the shaft is tight on the pin), in which case there will be less axial force in the joint (maybe nominal, maybe not).

The interesting thing about screw torque vs. axial force is that as the diameter of the pin goes up, the axial force goes down. Thus, a 5/16" pin provides ~17% more axial force than a 3/8" pin--all other factors being equal (we'll assume that the major factor, torque, is equal because that only changes depending on how much the user can/does generate).

Thus, I have proven that you are either wrong when you say it is 'ultra tight' (if you mean that it tightens the shaft to the butt more than other pins) or that 'ultra tight' is not a good quality (if the shaft is tight on the pin).

As far as the bastard thread issue, I have little problem with any thread that is made using engineering standards--i.e. 60deg. vee-threads and *possibly* Acme threads. It is when someone does something like flat-bottom, radial, wavy or 25deg. (or whatever uni-lock is) that I get irate.

dld
Click to expand...

could you explain how axial force affects a cue, and how it would affect playability, thanks.
 
sheffield6 said:
could you explain how axial force affects a cue, and how it would affect playability, thanks.
Click to expand...

Axial force is what presses the two joint faces together.

If it's too low, the faces will "slip" against each other when the cue vibrates or shakes side to side causing a loss of feel for feedback.

I agree with DD's principles and findings. I do, however, like the 3/8 flat bottom pin. But I may like it for different reasons than what some may think it's for.

I also believe that the purpose of the joint pin is to hold the butt and shaft together. That's it as far as playability is concerned. Alignment of the butt to the shaft is a different thing though.
 
DoubleD said:
The axial force of a screw joint (in any form, not just cues) is a function of torque applied, the friction in the joint and the diameter of the pin. Thus, this pin will provide no more and no less axial force (which is all that matters in a screw joint) than any other 3/8" diameter pin--UNLESS there is a bunch of friction from the screw itself (i.e. the shaft is tight on the pin), in which case there will be less axial force in the joint (maybe nominal, maybe not).

The interesting thing about screw torque vs. axial force is that as the diameter of the pin goes up, the axial force goes down. Thus, a 5/16" pin provides ~17% more axial force than a 3/8" pin--all other factors being equal (we'll assume that the major factor, torque, is equal because that only changes depending on how much the user can/does generate).

Thus, I have proven that you are either wrong when you say it is 'ultra tight' (if you mean that it tightens the shaft to the butt more than other pins) or that 'ultra tight' is not a good quality (if the shaft is tight on the pin).

As far as the bastard thread issue, I have little problem with any thread that is made using engineering standards--i.e. 60deg. vee-threads and *possibly* Acme threads. It is when someone does something like flat-bottom, radial, wavy or 25deg. (or whatever uni-lock is) that I get irate.

dld
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what youre debating with your self about here aor prove by saying maye be this or may be that-the pont I tried to get through to OP was that he could get a new shaft for the cue from Mezz.
If not, any cue maker with a good machines could make the tap or farm it out to a machine shop and make their own shafts to their customer.

I leave the theory to you and let the owners of the cues with these threads judge if the feeling is any different than other engineerd threads. The bottom line is that a new shaft is doable without to much hazzle.

K
 
wavy

Sort of looks like a shop mistake where someone said, hey I screwed this up so lets make it work so I don't have to fix it.
My other take on it is that it's a mini radial pin. The "double thread" offset makes the minor diameter larger. Kind of an upside down flat bottom
3/8-10 or 9 or what ever it is. I hope they don't think they invented
an alignment barrel on the pin. It probably works fine, but
any thread can be make tight, just undersize the hole.
Any decent cuemaker with live tooling should be able to make a shaft that will fit factory tight.
 
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