Need Help With Harvey Martin/ Bert Schrager -Apprentice/Cuemaker Tree

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billiardshot

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Need Help With Harvey Martin/ Bert Schrager -Apprentice/Cuemaker Tree

Would appreciate any help with information who apprentice under Harvey Martin and Bert Schrager to finish Martin/Schrager Cuemaker Tree see Sample below.

How much your cue can fetch depend not only on workmanship, but also their pedigree.

I gather the list below mentally, so if I am wrong please correct me... I'm awared that some cuemakers/apprentice might apprentice under other cuemakers!

This also posted in the Main forum
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=1799824&posted=1

cuemakers tree.gif
 
Schrager's apprentice list and Kersenbrock's apprentice list would be huge. Some people do not want it to be known who they got training from, so I won't list names. Bob Meucci's apprentice list would be huge also. But I could add a lot to your list if I felt it was kosher to do so. By apprentice I mean people who spent some time getting training from them whether it be a day or two or a year or two. David travelled all over the country training people in their own shops. Another Schrager apprentice that has done the same is Dale Hoke, but almost no one gives him any credit for the training he gave them. So since no one else gives Dale much credit I will say he taught me how to use a pantograph and make patterns and spent a summer with me once. Years before that he also taught me how to install tips by hand back in the 80's. His ability to install flawless burnished tips by hand got him the nick name Cue-Tip Dale. Even though he showed me the tricks to it, I never got as good at installing them by hand as he was, so I moved on to using a lathe a year or so later, and he moved to California and worked with Bert.
I have taught many tricks to other cuemakers and they have taught me many tricks also, so I guess we all kinda apprentice with each other. Sometimes we are the teacher and other times we are the apprentice. We just change hats momentarily.
 
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cueman said:
Schrager's apprentice list and Kersenbrock's apprentice list would be huge. Some people do not want it to be known who they got training from, so I won't list names. Bob Meucci's apprentice list would be huge also. But I could add a lot to your list if I felt it was kosher to do so. By apprentice I mean people who spent some time getting training from them whether it be a day or two or a year or two. David travelled all over the country training people in their own shops. Another Schrager apprentice that has done the same is Dale Hoke, but almost no one gives him any credit for the training he gave them. So since no one else gives Dale much credit I will say he taught me how to use a pantograph and make patterns and spent a summer with me once. Years before that he also taught me how to install tips by hand back in the 80's. His ability to install flawless burnished tips by hand got him the nick name Cue-Tip Dale. Even though he showed me the tricks to it, I never got as good at installing them by hand as he was, so I moved on to using a lathe a year or so later, and he moved to California and worked with Bert.
I have taught many tricks to other cuemakers and they have taught me many tricks also, so I guess we all kinda apprentice with each other. Sometimes we are the teacher and other times we are the apprentice. We just change hats momentarily.
Click to expand...

Chris, Everything you said is true, specially about who they got their [cuemaker] training from. Even Dieckman make that same statement.

There really need to be a record of who who for cuemakers and who their apprenctices were. Whether public or private held by Association. So far all information obtain is already printed elsewhere, just organizing it.

Any information you can add, if only proper and allow by you to give out, would be appreciated.
Bob Watson
 
Here the Newness Update Cuemaker Tree, and growing!!!
A sample how I hope to break it down farther.

cuemakers tree.gif

Copy of cuemakers tree.gif
 
Bert Schrager's last major helper before he sold the shop was Doug Ketcham.
If you got a cue from Bert the last few years most likely Doug did a lot of the assembly work on the cue and Bert's wife Pat did all the Inlay work. So Pat Schrager and Doug Ketcham should both be under Bert for apprentices.
 
cueman said:
Bert Schrager's last major helper before he sold the shop was Doug Ketcham.
If you got a cue from Bert the last few years most likely Doug did a lot of the assembly work on the cue and Bert's wife Pat did all the Inlay work. So Pat Schrager and Doug Ketcham should both be under Bert for apprentices.
Click to expand...

100% right Chris! Doug is, but I didn't put Pat.
I hope You read the other post http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=1819195&posted=1
 
Just to add...Brad Zaccone of Omega/Mystique Cues goes in there with the Benders. Brad is now 6-8 years retired from making cues.
 
bob_bushka said:
I thought Keith Hansen of Keiths Kuston Kues studied under Paul K. Maybe someone else can confirm.
Click to expand...
David used to travel around and spend a day to a week or so with various people doing training. That list would be pretty big. Dale Hoke is another one that came out of Bert's shop that has visited dozens of shops helping set up equipment and working for a while and heading on. He helped me set up my first Gorton pantograph.
It was David who convinced me to put a taper bar on my original full size Cue Smith lathe and turn it into a full blown cue building lathe back in the early 90s.
 
I may be a little off here but Terry McFadden worked with Ernie Martinez.
Maybe Cuesblues can give more info.
 
cueman said:
David used to travel around and spend a day to a week or so with various people doing training. That list would be pretty big. Dale Hoke is another one that came out of Bert's shop that has visited dozens of shops helping set up equipment and working for a while and heading on. He helped me set up my first Gorton pantograph.
It was David who convinced me to put a taper bar on my original full size Cue Smith lathe and turn it into a full blown cue building lathe back in the early 90s.
Click to expand...

Dale Hoke...now there is a name I haven't heard in a long time. Cue Tip Dale was his moniker if memory serves. Great player too...

I wonder if anyone knows how he is doing? I haven't seen him in a very long time.
 
JAlan said:
Dale Hoke...now there is a name I haven't heard in a long time. Cue Tip Dale was his moniker if memory serves. Great player too...

I wonder if anyone knows how he is doing? I haven't seen him in a very long time.
Click to expand...
Is has been a few years since I last talked to him and he was working in a machine shop at the time.
 
cueman said:
Is has been a few years since I last talked to him and he was working in a machine shop at the time.
Click to expand...

Well he certainly has the knowledge to do that, glad to hear he was doing ok, even a few years ago. I haven't seen him in ...going on 15 years I bet. Thanks Chris!
 
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