Is 10-ball the perfect game?

Blackball75

Blackball75
Silver Member
http://www.azbilliards.com/heyjoe/heyjoe6.php

An encouraging article.

Two questions/comments on the content of the article though:

a) "There are even those within the sport who claim that 10 ball as it is played now represents the absolute highest level a billiard discipline could reach."

This would surely instead be the now little played English Billiards on a 12ft snooker table?

b) "...in the very heart of a country where pool is adored like no other place on earth."

Why is pool so big in the Philippines? Is it bigger there than in the US?
 
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Personally I like One-Pocket better than 10 ball. Straight pool isn't bad either.
Snooker is a different beast altogether :)
 
since you asked for opinions; YES 10-ball is the best all around test out there.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE watching top tier guys play 10-ball on tough equipment.







I just wish I played like those top tier guys. :embarrassed2:
 
Straight pool, one pocket & snooker are my favorites. 8 Ball is a distant 4th. After that I'm pretty much done. I have never played 10 ball as I absolutely, positively cannot stand 9 ball. I do not know why but it rubs me the wrong way and then some. One game I'd love to try is 3 cushion billiards. THIS would be my pick for the "ultimate" game of skill!

RG
 
I would say that call shot rules have nothing to do with the success of ten ball. The different racking configuration and fewer balls made on the break makes for a more difficult and entertaining game. Call shot only takes strategy away from the game. Eleven and twelve ball with perfect racks and without call shot will eventually overtake 10 ball as the game of choice.
 
9-ball became very boring about 10 years ago. That's when every semi-pro in every small town across the world started putting up 6-packs. Don't forget that most places still don't have pro-cut Diamond tables.

It dawned on me at a Florida Pro Tour event. I was watching and I had never before been bored of watching pro level play. I was fanatical about pool and for me to get bored was significant. But then I got bored. I almost fell asleep watching a match between Charlie Williams and someone else I can't remember. But it was a runout fest. Too many routine runs. Shortly after began some of the nonsense with racking. The Sardo, the slow break, the break box been around for a long long time, and it too was making a comeback in some tourney's. There was the racking the 9ball on the foot spot period. In Europe they were requiring that the 2 ball not be placed in the same position. Must be in different position each rack. There's those 2-3 balls must cross the head string anti-soft break rules. As time went on during this period, all sorts of players began making the wing ball all the time or breaking to predictable patterns.

All of that is silly. 9-ball became completely and totally break focused. All about racking, fixed vs. random ball position etcetera. The break has always been the most important shot in 9-ball. Key word - SHOT. In the last decade, the break became the entire game.
Just look at all the B players drooling over the magic rack and other contraptions. B players become A players minus the advanced kicking game due to easy breaking.

Anyway, at that Florida Tour stop, I made a comment in a discussion with other spectators, with a few of the players there too. I said that no-slop 10-ball is a logical solution. 10-ball was on no one's mind and some never even heard of it. The conversation had been about alternate breaking vs. winner breaks and there was whining because good players were losing to weaker semi-pros who where breaking well. That's why I commented on 10-ball.

I was basically called an idiot, while others rolled eyes or scoffed. I figured, no win on the break, call the shots. That idea came from Buddy Hall, except he proposed that for 9-ball. Call shot, no win on the break 9-ball would have helped a lot. Only difference is, the 9-ball racking/break issues would still be there. I had heard of 10-ball and figured that a rotation game with 1 more ball on the table equates to a lot more congestion, putting an end to the ridiculously boring stringing of racks by nearly everyone - adds some more complex safety play and strategy for cluster breaking and working through the rack. That's what the proponents of 10-ball were thinking at the time. Diamond Pro Cut tables are much more prevalent in tournaments than they were 10 years ago.

Well, those people who thought I was an idiot are now playing 10-ball on their tour.


I think the move to 10-ball is a good one. Smaller pockets & 10-ball makes it more challenging. It's not much of a test of skill when many hardly-known players are going even up with champions because of the easy 9-ball break.


When the IPT came out, I was hopeful and excited. Because 8-ball is a game the masses can relate to. That and it's far more complex than 9-ball. It leads to more interesting situations. There's more moves in the game and it allows for more creativity. It's not as one-dimensional in that there's more than one solution to a problem in many cases.

I thought, finally - something that will break this boring 9-ball death grip over the pool world. Unfortunately, big time 8-ball went down with the IPT.


Do I consider 10-ball the ultimate test of skill? No. 14.1 is. One-pocket is a bit of a specialty game. 8-ball is well, 8-ball. There's no patience in our short-attention-span society for 14.1 anymore. There's a reason it was gone in the 1980's. That means one-pocket is out too. 8-ball went down with the IPT. That leaves rotation games. Of which, there's 9-ball that needs replacing, 10-ball which is a good candidate, and Rotation, which is too much of a leap and too different to be accepted world wide.


I think many can agree 10-ball is not the ultimate test of skill. It's just the best test of skill that is also acceptable as a modern tournament game.


The only question is, will 10-ball survive the test of time? Souquet is right, the level has gone way up. For 10-ball to have a run of 30 years like 9-ball has, it shouldn't be so easy as to be conquered quickly and made boring by the pros. It all rests on how much the extra ball ties up and slows down the game, and most of all, how well the rack holds up to breaking strategy. I'm sure we'll see some innovations in breaking 10-ball. But no matter what, there won't be that dreaded wing ball that C players can make regularly.

One last thing about 10-ball. They have been standardizing the rules, but still being relatively new as a major game it is still open to adjustments in case it turns out to be 9-ball with one extra ball. Whereas, in 9-ball, Texas Express pretty much became written in stone and it was blasphemy to deviate from that.
 
How is everyone playing 10 ball??

Is it being played as 9 ball with one extra ball or :
10 ball spotted on the break
Call shots
Miss or make ball in the wrong pocket the incoming player can pass the table back.
How is everyone playing this game. At my hall people play by adding the extra ball and when I suggested the other rules it was not recieved warmly.
 
a) I don't know, but if a game fades in popularity there is usually SOMETHING that the players (casual and pros) don't like about it. I hate to admit it, but that even applies to 14.1, which I love. Probably the length of each match.

---

I think pros like rotation games because

1: they force you to move the cue ball all over the place. You don't just tap in balls moving whitey 1 or 2 feet each time. And the demands are high. You can't screw up position and then just shoot something else. You MUST get good position on the ball you intended.

2: skills like jumping, kicking, and banks come into play more. It feels more well rounded than just playing a game with the limited skillset of breaking, making balls and playing shape.

Pros also like hard breaks rather than controlled soft breaks, and 10b offers that. People wisecrack about moving to 11, 12, and 16 ball.. but the point of the game isn't just adding one extra ball. It's to make the rack triangular again, which favors breaking very hard. Now that this is accomplished, there's no need to bother with additional balls.

Slight tweaks to the rules like no golden breaks, no slops, etc. also make pros happy by removing some of the luck. But they still want luck in the break because after seeing Donny make 80 wing balls in a row, they realized there isn't a lot that can be done to make such a game fair and interesting.

All that said, 15 balls is an even bigger challenge... it's still a triangular rack... and it's ALSO huge in the phillipines. Maybe someday we'll just all move to rotation. My feeling though is that the speed of 10b vs. rotation means you can play several games in a limited timeframe, which is more interesting to gamblers and spectators.

oh, and to answer the other question
b) yes... pool is a zillion times more popular in the phillippines than in the usa. With a bullet. They put it on live TV. They ALL play. Grandma plays. The clerk at the gas station plays. It's HUGE. It's the national sport.
 
10 ball is a superior game to 9 ball.

9 ball tends to become a little stupid. Wing balls always flying in off the break, 1 almost always going into the side and 9 ball often being kicked in for the win. It also tends towards tighter tougher patterns.

10 ball is just perfect, 15 ball just takes too long and makes it difficult too difficult to run out with too many flukey safeties.
 
I wouldn't base the criteria for what is a good tourney game on what the non-existent fans of pool might prefer to watch.

If there is any game that could get some penetration, it would be 8-ball - the most well known to the masses. It has never been given a chance, except for the IPT which didn't survive long.

When I said 14.1 was no good for the short-attention span society, I wasn't referring to someone who might be channel surfing and comes across pool on ESPN. I was referring to the already existing pool fan base.

14.1 is not even popular among pool fans for consumption. Neither is one-pocket. Most don't play it, don't know it, and don't want to watch it.
 
10 ball is better than 9 ball but it's still far from perfect. Snooker is closer to the perfect game IMO.

Now if you want to talk about a really tough game try balkline billiards, it's extremely tedious to say the least.
 
Ten Ball is not the perfect game, but One Pocket comes pretty damn close.

One pocket is boring.

Straight pool, snooker and Rotation are all great games but just too difficult to score for a relaxing casual game. When most players play, they just want to relax, not keep track of scores, not respotting balls, not adding points... thats why 8-ball and 9/10- ball are so popular.
 
One pocket is boring.

Straight pool, snooker and Rotation are all great games but just too difficult to score for a relaxing casual game. When most players play, they just want to relax, not keep track of scores, not respotting balls, not adding points... thats why 8-ball and 9/10- ball are so popular.


Perhaps, for those of you who don't play the game, but the player you just described is one who can't think beyond the simple rotation games anyway.
 
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