In response to a claim about Sterling Cases damaging cues

JB Cases said:
To Dave Wilson and the other moderators on AZB:

This guy INITIATED all private communication with me. He has been abusive with the name calling and recently threatened to "meet me in the parking lot" at the Super Billiards Expo.

The history is clear. He stepped into a thread where Matt Carter was warning people about counterfeit products and called Matt a liar and said that Sterling is stealing from Jay Flower's family. So he called us liars and thieves.

Then later I simply red-repped the post he made and after that he began the private message harassment.

Now this same person conveniently discovers an "issue" with our cases after his semi-bigoted remarks about China and Chinese labor were shot down in another thread.

With this claim he is trying to discredit my work. I have defended my work adequately by doing videos to show our interiors and how they function. I have asked him to provide top-down photos of the case empty and full.

Matt Carter asked him to send the case back to Sterling for inspection and offered to pay for it.

Matt Carter offered a full refund for the case.

MonsterMash (Tom something) has essentially let it be known that he is carrying out a vendetta. So in light of the lack of evidence and the fact that he is openly hostile I think it should be perfectly clear that this entire claim is bogus and designed to smear my reputation for cue protection.

When I sent him a POSITIVE rep warning him to not stalk me it was because he jumped into a WFS thread with the intention of antagonizing me which is clearly against the rules.

So, if you are going to do anything start with this person who slandered Matt Carter, Sterling Gaming and myself.

Sincerely,

John Barton
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Lets revisit the history in order of the events shall we.

I posted in the counterfeit thread started by Matt Carter. I did so, as others did, simply asking if he contacted the seller before he made his claims that by the way, were not proven at that time. All the Matt offered for proof AT THAT TIME was "There are hidden details that alert us, Sterling Gaming, to the authenticity of any case". So I posted up asking a question because the member he was accusing had great history here selling and HAD NEVER HAD A PROBLEM PREVIOUS TO THIS! Matt was still pretty new here with very little history so I felt it was a legitimate question.

I never suggested that Matt/Sterling was stealing from the Flowers family. Again, I just asked a question whether or not they secured the right to use his name on the case because it seemed that Sterling was using the name and it seemed strange that others wouldn't be allowed to do so as well.

Very soon after I posted, I received several pm's from member with a ZERO post count telling me to contact YOU! I was a little concerned by this and there were others that posted up the same thing so I posted that I received virtually the same pm's. I was then told by 4, yes couth them, 4 other members that the person sending the pm's was you although because you were BANNED you had to make up an alias to do it. Before this, I had NEVER EVEN HEARD OF YOU!

Shortly after this occured, it because obvious that the claim the Matt had made was indeed true and what happened John? In case you didn't pay attention I'll recap it for you.... I STOPPED POSTING IN THE THREAD! Which then went on for another week or so without any involvement from me again.

I then received a negative rep from you so I sent you an email asking why and asking if you had been banned for this kind of behavior in the past and that I was looking for another case but I wouldn't consider one from you because of your actions. Most of which revolves around the fact that you are deceitful with your actions. Who makes up an alias to email someone to tell them to email the person that is really behind the alias?

Thats where you replied and called my post "asinine". Why was my post asinine John? Why? Because you didn't agree with it thats why. This is where you started with all the threats and name calling and posting lies about me all over this website and on your website. I received about 5 emails of you ranting in less than 20 minutes so I emailed Mr. Wilson asking if anything could be done. Because you went off the deep end and started harrassing me I went back and removed the posts hoping you would just go away. Instead you just kept going.


Since that point, you have been stalking me and almost every post I make here and sending me emails calling me an idiot and a liar. You called me a liar because I stated I had a Sterling case that damaged a cue that my girlfriend loaded into it. So, to offer proof I posted a fair objective review of the case and INCLUDED PHOTOS of the Jp's touching which will obviously damage the finish on the cue. I never stated that damage was extensive or un-fixable but it did damage the finish on the shaft while my girlfriend was loading/unloading the cue and I had to have it fixed.

This is the basis of all your accusations of me lying. It's all because you have a damaged ego because you can't admit that one of your mass produced products could possibly cause damage? Really? Is your manufacturing process (that you have zero control of btw) so good that there are NEVER any defective products? Because that is impossible to believe. And, there have been others that have shared with you that there were problems as well but you don't believe them either do you?

So did I initially contact you? Yes, to ask why you left me the negative rep. And since that point you have been calling me names and threatening me and posting all sorts of crap that's not true.

So here's the deal, John. I have contacted Mike and told him my side of the story. I have admitted that in all my corrospondence with you I am not completely innocent in this matter but I feel that any questionable actions on my part are a direct result/reaction to prompts by you.

While were getting this all in the open, lets recap the last time you threatened me shall we?
You called me a coward stating that I was like all these other people that you have had problems with (big surprise there) and I would never confront you face to face. To that I replied I would speak with you at the SBE and that we would have the conversation away from the expo because I didn't want to get thrown out. Your reply was:

"tell me your name and address and I will make it a point to come and visit you and we can talk about whatever you want to.

It's real simple pimple, you do whatever you think you need to and if you drop me then you drop me. If you don't then I won't stop until I drop you. Remember my example of the wasp, act like a bug and you will get crushed like one. Just remember "Tom" that you threatened me through a PM and if you manage to keep me down for the count then someone will come looking for you."

That sounds a great deal like a threat to me John when I never threatened you with physical harm.

So there it is John. It's out for everyone to see. Honestly, I think you should consider getting some professional help. I am not trying to be mean of hateful here. I really think you need help.
 
Monstermash said:
Lets revisit the history in order of the events shall we.

I posted in the counterfeit thread started by Matt Carter. I did so, as others did, simply asking if he contacted the seller before he made his claims that by the way, were not proven at that time. All the Matt offered for proof AT THAT TIME was "There are hidden details that alert us, Sterling Gaming, to the authenticity of any case". So I posted up asking a question because the member he was accusing had great history here selling and HAD NEVER HAD A PROBLEM PREVIOUS TO THIS! Matt was still pretty new here with very little history so I felt it was a legitimate question.

I never suggested that Matt/Sterling was stealing from the Flowers family. Again, I just asked a question whether or not they secured the right to use his name on the case because it seemed that Sterling was using the name and it seemed strange that others wouldn't be allowed to do so as well.

Very soon after I posted, I received several pm's from member with a ZERO post count telling me to contact YOU! I was a little concerned by this and there were others that posted up the same thing so I posted that I received virtually the same pm's. I was then told by 4, yes couth them, 4 other members that the person sending the pm's was you although because you were BANNED you had to make up an alias to do it. Before this, I had NEVER EVEN HEARD OF YOU!

Shortly after this occured, it because obvious that the claim the Matt had made was indeed true and what happened John? In case you didn't pay attention I'll recap it for you.... I STOPPED POSTING IN THE THREAD! Which then went on for another week or so without any involvement from me again.

I then received a negative rep from you so I sent you an email asking why and asking if you had been banned for this kind of behavior in the past and that I was looking for another case but I wouldn't consider one from you because of your actions. Most of which revolves around the fact that you are deceitful with your actions. Who makes up an alias to email someone to tell them to email the person that is really behind the alias?

Thats where you replied and called my post "asinine". Why was my post asinine John? Why? Because you didn't agree with it thats why. This is where you started with all the threats and name calling and posting lies about me all over this website and on your website. I received about 5 emails of you ranting in less than 20 minutes so I emailed Mr. Wilson asking if anything could be done. Because you went off the deep end and started harrassing me I went back and removed the posts hoping you would just go away. Instead you just kept going.


Since that point, you have been stalking me and almost every post I make here and sending me emails calling me an idiot and a liar. You called me a liar because I stated I had a Sterling case that damaged a cue that my girlfriend loaded into it. So, to offer proof I posted a fair objective review of the case and INCLUDED PHOTOS of the Jp's touching which will obviously damage the finish on the cue. I never stated that damage was extensive or un-fixable but it did damage the finish on the shaft while my girlfriend was loading/unloading the cue and I had to have it fixed.

This is the basis of all your accusations of me lying. It's all because you have a damaged ego because you can't admit that one of your mass produced products could possibly cause damage? Really? Is your manufacturing process (that you have zero control of btw) so good that there are NEVER any defective products? Because that is impossible to believe. And, there have been others that have shared with you that there were problems as well but you don't believe them either do you?

So did I initially contact you? Yes, to ask why you left me the negative rep. And since that point you have been calling me names and threatening me and posting all sorts of crap that's not true.

So here's the deal, John. I have contacted Mike and told him my side of the story. I have admitted that in all my corrospondence with you I am not completely innocent in this matter but I feel that any questionable actions on my part are a direct result/reaction to prompts by you.

While were getting this all in the open, lets recap the last time you threatened me shall we?
You called me a coward stating that I was like all these other people that you have had problems with (big surprise there) and I would never confront you face to face. To that I replied I would speak with you at the SBE and that we would have the conversation away from the expo because I didn't want to get thrown out. Your reply was:

"tell me your name and address and I will make it a point to come and visit you and we can talk about whatever you want to.

It's real simple pimple, you do whatever you think you need to and if you drop me then you drop me. If you don't then I won't stop until I drop you. Remember my example of the wasp, act like a bug and you will get crushed like one. Just remember "Tom" that you threatened me through a PM and if you manage to keep me down for the count then someone will come looking for you."

That sounds a great deal like a threat to me John when I never threatened you with physical harm.

So there it is John. It's out for everyone to see. Honestly, I think you should consider getting some professional help. I am not trying to be mean of hateful here. I really think you need help.
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Look I am not going to rehash this all AGAIN. It's not any surprise that your version of events suits you. This is my version:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/blog.php?b=521

This thread is about your claim that our case damaged your cues.

Anyone can make a claim but you have no credible evidence.

To deal with your last assumptions I have created another video to prove you wrong.

I suggest you watch it to learn more about why your story doesn't fly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZnlxVyWLE
 
JB Cases said:
I am no one's golden boy Louie.
Click to expand...


What I was alluding to is that, throughout much of this goat rope, there have been several mentions of you creating an alias(s) to contact members here. If true, I thought that was an automatic ban.

Also, reflecting on some of what is coming out in this and related threads, vice the sins that have gotten other members banned, like PJ and more recently PP, it would appear to the casual observer that you are somebody's huckleberry :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
JB Cases said:
Look I am not going to rehash this all AGAIN. It's not any surprise that your version of events suits you. This is my version:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/blog.php?b=521

This thread is about your claim that our case damaged your cues.

Anyone can make a claim but you have no credible evidence.

To deal with your last assumptions I have created another video to prove you wrong.

I suggest you watch it to learn more about why your story doesn't fly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZnlxVyWLE
Click to expand...

Seriously John? You make make all the videos you want but it's not of THIS case! I never suggested that EVERY one of these cases would damage cues, only that THIS one does. How many times have I said "defective"?

No credible evidence? You must be blind. How many times do I have to post the PHOTOS before you actually look at them?

Also, I could care less about the smart shaft you used. Why, because it doesn't have the same taper as the Bender that was damaged. You keep posting everything that suits your needs but refuse to see the forest through the trees.

Trying to make you understand anything or get you to look at anything logically is useless. All you want to do is make up scenarios that support your arguement and refuse to admit that you're anything but perfect.

I'm about done trying to explain this so you can understand it. It's impossible to get you to comprehend anything that doesn't agree with your opinion. The only ones that agree with you are your little cronies. You ask why my friends don't come to my defense? It's because they don't want to get insulted and internet stalked by you.
 
I don't have a dog in this fight but if you buy anything that has a manufacture warranty you are required to send it in for repair. At this point it is looked at and determined if the damage is caused via negligence or if the product is defective. I see no difference here.

It sounds like this has been offered and also a full refund has been offered. Seriously what is the expectation of the customer and how can it possibly be met?
 
TheNewSharkster said:
I don't have a dog in this fight but if you buy anything that has a manufacture warranty you are required to send it in for repair. At this point it is looked at and determined if the damage is caused via negligence or if the product is defective. I see no difference here.

It sounds like this has been offered and also a full refund has been offered. Seriously what is the expectation of the customer and how can it possibly be met?
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Thats just it. There is NO expectation. I don't want anything from the manufacturer. I posted a review and John Barton called me a liar. I have done what is necessary to show that I was justified in writing the review including posting clear photos of the jp's touching each other.

I will concede that Matt and Sterling have gone over and above to get this case back and either send me a new one or repair this one or whatever. I just do not want any of those things. I do not want anything to do with any company that Mr. Barton has been, or is involved with. We purchased this case before I even knew who John Barton was. Now that I know what kind of person he is I do not want to send the case back so they can inspect the case, find out what is wrong, and correct it. I'm sorry but I'm not required to send anything back. It's my prerogative if I want to send the case back or if I want to keep it.
 
Monstermash said:
Thats just it. There is NO expectation. I don't want anything from the manufacturer. I posted a review and John Barton called me a liar. I have done what is necessary to show that I was justified in writing the review including posting clear photos of the jp's touching each other.

I will concede that Matt and Sterling have gone over and above to get this case back and either send me a new one or repair this one or whatever. I just do not want any of those things. I do not want anything to do with any company that Mr. Barton has been, or is involved with. We purchased this case before I even knew who John Barton was. Now that I know what kind of person he is I do not want to send the case back so they can inspect the case, find out what is wrong, and correct it. I'm sorry but I'm not required to send anything back. It's my prerogative if I want to send the case back or if I want to keep it.
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That is too bad and it also shows your character.

You don't want to send it back and have them correct it? You are doing a dis-service to all fellow pool players.

It's too bad there is some guy out there with a case that can damage his cues but you won't let the manufacturer try to fix it.

It's like saying you won't send back your Toyota because the gas pedal was stuck because you got beef with the designer.
 
Monstermash said:
Seriously John? You make make all the videos you want but it's not of THIS case! I never suggested that EVERY one of these cases would damage cues, only that THIS one does. How many times have I said "defective"?

No credible evidence? You must be blind. How many times do I have to post the PHOTOS before you actually look at them?

Also, I could care less about the smart shaft you used. Why, because it doesn't have the same taper as the Bender that was damaged. You keep posting everything that suits your needs but refuse to see the forest through the trees.

Trying to make you understand anything or get you to look at anything logically is useless. All you want to do is make up scenarios that support your arguement and refuse to admit that you're anything but perfect.

I'm about done trying to explain this so you can understand it. It's impossible to get you to comprehend anything that doesn't agree with your opinion. The only ones that agree with you are your little cronies. You ask why my friends don't come to my defense? It's because they don't want to get insulted and internet stalked by you.
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My cronies? So everyone who agrees with me are my "cronies". That is your contention? Half the people in this thread are unknown to me.

I understand that the cases I show in my videos are not the case you have.

All I can do without having that case is to examine the statements you made and run those statements against the standard in every way possible.

Because when you make a claim that a certain brand of cue case damaged your cue then people don't just automatically think that this is or could be an exception. Normal people think that because one claim exists that there must be more. A claim that a case damages a cue instills fear about the brand as a whole.

So a responsible brand takes every claim very seriously in order to verify and dissect it. It's like wound that can't be left to fester.

Since neither I nor anyone but you has access to the case we have to rely on other means to attempt to recreate the situation as best we can using your description.

That is the reason for all the videos. And until we get to see the case in person we cannot accept it at face value because the empirical evidence does not support the situation you have described. Forget all the emotional nonsense between you and I and boil it down to the essentials.

You claim that the use of our case has damaged your cues.

I went out of my way to test your statements thoroughly using other cases. I looked at your statements from every angle.

I addressed every point you made with a video answer as to why I think it's highly unlikely that your cue was damaged by normal use of the case you possess.

The only missing parts of the puzzle at this point are top down photos and that Sterling be given the opportunity to inspect the product.

Thank you for the review you posted. It is through criticism that I am forced to double check my methods and designs. It forces me to think harder about what we do and why we do it. So I don't see this process as a negative.

And in fact I have been thinking of ways to provide padding that goes all the to the top and makes the loading and unloading of the case completely idiot-proof. This way even the tiny fraction of claims we get like yours which have a tiny bit of wiggle room in them would get even smaller.
 
lfigueroa said:
What I was alluding to is that, throughout much of this goat rope, there have been several mentions of you creating an alias(s) to contact members here. If true, I thought that was an automatic ban.

Also, reflecting on some of what is coming out in this and related threads, vice the sins that have gotten other members banned, like PJ and more recently PP, it would appear to the casual observer that you are somebody's huckleberry :-)

Lou Figueroa
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Would you apologize to the moderators if you turned out be making wrong assumptions?

I have served the time given me for transgressions committed. However you have no problem flouting the rules such as earlier when you called me a nutcase.

And before you bet the farm on Monstermash and his "version" of things you should realize that there are two sides to every story and more importantly, time stamps.

Apparently you have no problem slandering, harrassing, namecalling, stalking etc....

The forum rules since you want to be the rule police:

By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.

To be included, there will be no ad hominem attacks. No name calling nor insults. Disagreeing with someone is fine, but calling them an idiot because of their opinion is not.

All posts will be kept civil.

So, do I really need to go through and pick out all the violations by you and Monstermash?

Something about pots, kettles and black comes to mind.
 
JB Cases said:
Would you apologize to the moderators if you turned out be making wrong assumptions?

I have served the time given me for transgressions committed. However you have no problem flouting the rules such as earlier when you called me a nutcase.

And before you bet the farm on Monstermash and his "version" of things you should realize that there are two sides to every story and more importantly, time stamps.

Apparently you have no problem slandering, harrassing, namecalling, stalking etc....

The forum rules since you want to be the rule police:

By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.

To be included, there will be no ad hominem attacks. No name calling nor insults. Disagreeing with someone is fine, but calling them an idiot because of their opinion is not.

All posts will be kept civil.

So, do I really need to go through and pick out all the violations by you and Monstermash?

Something about pots, kettles and black comes to mind.
Click to expand...


Knock yourself out.

And you are a nut case and everyone knows it. Clearly that has to be an instance of: no harm no foul :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
Knock yourself out.

And you are a nut case and everyone knows it. Clearly that has to be an instance of: no harm no foul :-)

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

I have one of JBs customized cases....and you are right...it is the "Nuts" of "Cases"..:)
 
Oh what the hell let's bring this thread back from the dead with an update.

Well not an update on the situation but a little tidbit that you dear readers might find interesting.

Just made a new style of case we hadn't done before, an envelope with tubes.

However I wanted to make it smaller than similar type cases on the market. So I used the 2x3 tube that is in question and reconfigured it to fit a 2x4.

The customer was at my shop last week and saw the case and tested it. He specifically said that the shafts should not touch.

http://www.jbcases.com/cases/chas.html

chas-a1-f.jpg


chas-q-interior.jpg


chas-r-interiorwithcues.jpg
 
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