Bent knee stance vs Stiff leg stance

jaybanthony · Nov 22, 2011

Someone told me this weekend that when you bend your knees in your stance you lose power in your stroke arm. Has anyone ever heard of this?

Earl shoots from a bent position with both knees bent, He has plenty of power in his stroke which makes me wonder...............does he really have a valid point?

I'd appreciate some feedback.

West Point 1987 · Nov 22, 2011

No. Power comes from you shoulder, arm (bicep and forearm) and abdomen. And we're talking about "twitch" muscles (blue), for speed/acceleration. You could curl 200 pounds and have 24 inch guns, but a slow (and consequently weaker) stroke. That's why you see skinny guys that can absolutely crush it, draw two table's lengths, etc. The only reason you would use your legs at all (on a break) is to lengthen your stroke and follow through. I'm 6-2, if I shoot with my knees locked my back is shot in about 30 minutes. Plus, logically, locking your knees would take any "power" you'd get from your legs out of the equation.

If Earl could get more power with locked knees, you can bet he'd invent kevlar braces for his legs...

DGHustles · Nov 22, 2011

jaybanthony said:
Someone told me this weekend that when you bend your knees in your stance you lose power in your stroke arm. Has anyone ever heard of this?

Earl shoots from a bent position with both knees bent, He has plenty of power in his stroke which makes me wonder...............does he really have a valid point?

I'd appreciate some feedback.

I think it is whatever is comfortable. There are champions that have bent legs, but I think the majority of people use a straight leg approach. I know I do, not saying I am a champion but I fell like you are more susceptible to moving your body with bent knees.

jaybanthony · Nov 22, 2011

I'm 5'10", 160.....I've also shot with both my knees slightly bent, it's what came natural to me. I feel I get pretty good action. I'll give it a try for a couple of weeks and see how it works for me.

Canadian cue · Nov 22, 2011

The staight leg stance is popular in snooker. The reason I was told is that by locking your leg your stance becomes more repeatable. And when you play for long periods if you use a bent leg you could start to bend a little lower. In snooker mechanics are everything because to consistantly pot balls on a ten foot table there is very little room for error in stroke. Add to that the round horns on the pocket. In pool the game has different challenges and potting is not as hard so there is more room for variation in style. Another thing for me personaly, I find that it is easier to stand with a locked leg on a snooker vs pool table because the table is higher. When I am playing pool I start to adobt the bent knee because I have long legs and it is not as comfortable.

Chi2dxa · Nov 22, 2011

Comfort my friend it is all about comfort. Can you stroke straight that is all that counts.

Snapshot9 · Nov 22, 2011

Stance

First off, when you lock your leg, it is ONLY the back leg that is locked, your front leg is slightly bent. This puts the pressure of the stance on your joints and not your muscles. It is also a lot easier to bend at the waist, and keep your back straight. The idea is to have straight lines with your stance.

When you bend both knees when shooting, it puts the pressure on your muscles, and muscles tire after hours of shooting, not to mention trying to keep your back straight with both legs bent. This will eventually end up with aches and pains, and usually mistakes made on the table.

gunzby · Nov 22, 2011

You don't lose power with a bent knee. I would say that you may lose power with stiff legs because it puts more pressure on your back.

cuetechasaurus · Nov 22, 2011

Stroke power comes from a straight stroke. Why? The more squarely you hit the cue ball, the less effort you need from your arm because your cue is doing most of the work.

That's not to say that you can't get power without a straight stroke, some players do it quite well. It's just that it requires more effort from your arm and even your shoulder.

Bent knee or straight knee has nothing to do with it.

victorl · Nov 22, 2011

For taller players a bent leg stance is much more comfortable while in snooker, the table height almost forces you to have a straight back leg.
Either way is fine but with a bent-leg stance you must be sure to have a solid and well-balanced stance or else lower-body movement will start to creep in throw everything off.

pdcue · Nov 23, 2011

jaybanthony said:
Someone told me this weekend that when you bend your knees in your stance you lose power in your stroke arm. Has anyone ever heard of this?

Earl shoots from a bent position with both knees bent, He has plenty of power in his stroke which makes me wonder...............does he really have a valid point?

I'd appreciate some feedback.

Sounds like another 'old wives tale' to me.

Can you ask him exactly how bended knee(s) take away
power from your stroke.

On a side note: is underpowered stroke(s) a serious problem
for many?

Dale

Ratta · Nov 23, 2011

Hi there,

to talk about power if it s about hitting a ball is wrong- it all happens just through acceleration, nothing else. The art is just to accelerate with a repeatable straight stroke though the ball ( the contact is just for 1/1000 of a second). If you use not necessary muscles here, you will just slower it down and furthermore you will be much more inaccurate.

Your stance has to be comfortable- each human is different- so there is no perfect stance for everyone. You have to stand in a way, so that you can execute your stroke without hindering yourself-and it must be straight and repeatable-that s all

But those words about bent knew etc would lower your power of your stroke is nonsense-that s sure imo.

lg from overseas.
Ingo

jaybanthony · Nov 23, 2011

Ratta said:
Hi there,

to talk about power if it s about hitting a ball is wrong- it all happens just through acceleration, nothing else. The art is just to accelerate with a repeatable straight stroke though the ball ( the contact is just for 1/1000 of a second). If you use not necessary muscles here, you will just slower it down and furthermore you will be much more inaccurate.

Your stance has to be comfortable- each human is different- so there is no perfect stance for everyone. You have to stand in a way, so that you can execute your stroke without hindering yourself-and it must be straight and repeatable-that s all
But those words about bent knew etc would lower your power of your stroke is nonsense-that s sure imo.

lg from overseas.
Ingo

I'm inclined to agree with you. I didn't really buy much into his argument as I've seen many top players with a bent stance who generate tremendous power. Just didn't want to insult him cause he happens to be someone I respect. Thanks for the feedback.

JoeW · Nov 23, 2011

I am not overly committed to this but it seems to me that your legs and your bridge hand are like a gun emplacement; the rigid tripod from which the shot is made. Improving the rigidity of the organic tripod and it stationary nature contributes to long term consistency in shot making. I use a stiff back leg for this reason.

On the other hand there are the height requirements and muscle fatigue that others have pointed out. It seems to me that some people will have more or less difficulty with the rigid rear leg and therefore have to accommodate in some other way.

Undoubtedly bent legs are more likely to contribute to some sort of wobble.

gulyassy · Nov 23, 2011

I used to be straight leg player but through the years and a car accident I cannot lock my leg. As far as power I can draw follow and break better than when I locked my leg. More than anything it is the stroke and follow through that determines power. There is not much movement body wise when you are playing so it is all generated from the arm. The break is different, you use your hips and legs to generate speed.

JoeW · Nov 23, 2011

Some additional thoughts include the idea that in tennis, baseball, football and similar sports the player uses bent legs for the flexibility and quickness that it allows. When playing pool we are more like the archer, rifle or pistol shooter. A solid flat footed stance is needed. The question becomes how to obtain a solid stance. Taller people can compensate by placing more weight on the bridge hand. Some people, I assume, simply have to learn to stand very still with bent legs. This seems like a more difficult task to me.

I have found that the hard break is improved with a bent leg stance as it allows more speed and control of the hips during the execution. It would appear that the use of one’s legs is dependent upon what needs to be done.

Perhaps there is a need to be flexible. :embarrassed2:

JoeW · Nov 23, 2011

DoubleD said:
Disagree completely. We aren't tripods and we aren't made to be used as such. When a person is in a stationary position, working against any types of forces (i.e. the resolution of the forces of moving the arm/cue), a bent leg allows him to push back. A straight leg forces the rest of his body to move against those forces.

But isn't this exactly what we want? The swing should be accomplished with the fine motor coordination available from the upper portion of the body? The addition of slight movements from the leg contribute to a lack of consistency. At least that is one of the reasons I often use for a missed shot

An artist working on the detail in a painting uses this same tripod type of stance with the inclusion of a second brush used as a type of mechanical bridge to obtain the finest amount of control.

When a shooter is testing their equipment they sand bag the tool to avoid any movement.

It seems to me that finesse, such as required in pool playing, often requires a lower rigid body from which to work. Excellent pool playing requires a great deal of attention to detail although I readily acknowledge that some of the trick shot artists such as venom and others can bridge from the hip, shoot one handed, and pocket moving balls with a moving ball. I think these people have incredible abilities relative to the rest of us.

ronscuba · Nov 23, 2011

Canadian cue said:
The staight leg stance is popular in snooker. The reason I was told is that by locking your leg your stance becomes more repeatable. .....

Sounds good to me. Consistency is easier to achieve if the various parts of the stance, stroke, etc., are more repeatable.

jaybanthony · Nov 23, 2011

These are all very points. I believe some experimenting is required on my part. thank you all for the great feedback. let's keep it coming.

pdcue · Nov 23, 2011

DoubleD said:
A painter is trying to move a half-ounce paintbrush very slowly.

A shooter is using a piece of equipment that requires a slow, controlled movement of a single finger.

Horrible examples.

dld

Double hits the nail again.

Consider Willie Mosconi - the most obvious thing about his stance was
that he was relaxed, balanced, comfortable, at ease, etc.

He looked like he was preparing to play on the table, not pick it up.

IMHO - all this emphasis on "locking" your body in place reflects
players who have not learned how to hit the cueball without moving
off line somehow.

The best way to prevent unwanted movement is to not move.

Dale<not a locker>

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