Old
  (#376)
scottjen26
AzB Silver Member
scottjen26 has a reputation beyond reputescottjen26 has a reputation beyond reputescottjen26 has a reputation beyond reputescottjen26 has a reputation beyond reputescottjen26 has a reputation beyond reputescottjen26 has a reputation beyond reputescottjen26 has a reputation beyond reputescottjen26 has a reputation beyond reputescottjen26 has a reputation beyond reputescottjen26 has a reputation beyond reputescottjen26 has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,364
vCash: 500
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Jacksonville, FL
   
03-30-2012, 04:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banks View Post
I just want to see this get back on track. I've still got about 4 months on my wait to see how CTE works for somebody.

People seem to still be a little confused(or maybe that's me?) about the different ways in which CTE/Pro1 is performed. There was some mention(maybe only by PJ? I can't remember) about people moving either eyes, head or whatnot.

Perhaps this should be broken down from start to finish? Is a perception of a line close enough? Is there something more mathematical to it that isn't immediately recognized?

Just tossing things out there to get this constructive dialogue moving once more.

As with pool, so be it with this topic.. play well, fair and have fun.
On topic, yea, that's not going to happen... I'm sure when I check at work on Monday we'll be on page 35 or 40 and there might be a few good responses I'll have to look for in between all the crap...

For me, I know CTE has helped my game, ball pocketing specifically. I could never have played like I do now with so few hours a week and just have confidence over shots. The old me was always feeling my way into a shot, and without constant play I would lose that feel. Sure, maybe I'm using some feel with CTE as well, I'm open minded on that point since I can't prove it mathematically, but it feels more precise and discrete, and it's that feeling that gets me to the correct aim line every time and gives me the confidence to make the shot.


As for your question, I really didn't spend much time worrying about the specifics of which eye was looking at what, or how I picked up the lines, etc. I think I just naturally let it happen, and if I needed to lean my head, shift my eyes slightly, etc. that's what I did. I guess when I started getting feedback that I was performing the steps the right way and the balls were going in I was satisfied. I've showed this method to several people now in person and they have all been able to "see" it as well.

The hard part for me in the beginning was not having something concrete to aim at. Instead of lining up the cue ball to some point on the object ball, you are told to line up two lines, which on paper at least seem like they would be converging or diverging and not parallel, especially given the relative size of the balls in a 3d perspective.

However, I've come to realize (hopefully correctly) that I just start everything from the CTE line, shift/lean/etc as needed to pick up the necessary aim point, then move forward along that line/plane/etc and pivot. Starting from the CTE line allows you to gain the correct perspective on the secondary aim line, and you can still more or less see the CTEL in your vision when looking at the secondary line. The eventual aim point - or line, tunnel, plane, etc., however you want to look at it - is not a defined point, it changes for every shot, but the steps needed to find it are the same within a given range of angles.

Scott
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#377)
Banks
Banned
Banks has a reputation beyond reputeBanks has a reputation beyond reputeBanks has a reputation beyond reputeBanks has a reputation beyond reputeBanks has a reputation beyond reputeBanks has a reputation beyond reputeBanks has a reputation beyond reputeBanks has a reputation beyond reputeBanks has a reputation beyond reputeBanks has a reputation beyond reputeBanks has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 5,861
vCash: 1100
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Portland, OR
   
03-30-2012, 04:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottjen26 View Post
On topic, yea, that's not going to happen... I'm sure when I check at work on Monday we'll be on page 35 or 40 and there might be a few good responses I'll have to look for in between all the crap...

For me, I know CTE has helped my game, ball pocketing specifically. I could never have played like I do now with so few hours a week and just have confidence over shots. The old me was always feeling my way into a shot, and without constant play I would lose that feel. Sure, maybe I'm using some feel with CTE as well, I'm open minded on that point since I can't prove it mathematically, but it feels more precise and discrete, and it's that feeling that gets me to the correct aim line every time and gives me the confidence to make the shot.
I know what you mean. I rarely log in on the weekends, so I get to see the same thing in terms of extended posts.

I'm virtually self-taught in most ways, so what I do is from experience, watching other players and from picking up little things from here and some basic information from Mosconi's little book(s). One thing that did help, however, was walking into the angle/shot and that has helped see the shot a bit better as what we think we see from one angle is not always how things are(99% of cuts into the side I take a second glance at to reference the distance a ball is in front of or behind the pocket).

As far as the thread goes, I think it has generally been a good discussion. PJ has gone directly after the answer to "what makes CTE work?", but in order to get there, many of the smaller questions need to be addressed. I've heard good players discuss its use, so obviously there's something to it. The question many people have, though, is what exactly is it and how does it perform the way it's suppose to without having some kind of mathematical basis that they are aware of or are unable to explain. I believe many people have moved from "can it work?" to "how exactly?". Since the mechanics of individuals(from size, technique, shooting style, etc) vary so widely, as do the table conditions, the "how" is what people seem to be most polarized over. Adding to that is the fact that many people do things differently, including learning, so there are many disconnects along the way. Hopefully this gets some of that information into the open so that all may sleep well. After all, just imagine all of the time/energy that's been spent on this..

Have a good weekend, Scott.
-John
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#378)
SpiderWebComm
HelpImBeingOppressed
SpiderWebComm has a reputation beyond reputeSpiderWebComm has a reputation beyond reputeSpiderWebComm has a reputation beyond reputeSpiderWebComm has a reputation beyond reputeSpiderWebComm has a reputation beyond reputeSpiderWebComm has a reputation beyond reputeSpiderWebComm has a reputation beyond reputeSpiderWebComm has a reputation beyond reputeSpiderWebComm has a reputation beyond reputeSpiderWebComm has a reputation beyond reputeSpiderWebComm has a reputation beyond repute
 
SpiderWebComm's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 9,711
vCash: 1275
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wilmington, DE
   
03-30-2012, 05:24 PM

Another post with Lou telling Joey how much he personally likes him and then goes on to say how "some people told him" that Joey this and that. Give me a break. Joey ixna'd dinner probably because he couldn't break bread with someone who made him puke. Also prob the same reason why Joey didn't wanna play him.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


*******************


Viffer: The Movie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JFIy2ebJIE
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#379)
LAMas
AzB Silver Member
LAMas has a reputation beyond reputeLAMas has a reputation beyond reputeLAMas has a reputation beyond reputeLAMas has a reputation beyond reputeLAMas has a reputation beyond reputeLAMas has a reputation beyond reputeLAMas has a reputation beyond reputeLAMas has a reputation beyond reputeLAMas has a reputation beyond reputeLAMas has a reputation beyond reputeLAMas has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 26,687
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Los Angeles
   
03-30-2012, 08:56 PM

Back to the the original thread on aiming at fractions. This is more at how I percieve how CTE or fractional aiming can be changed to a thinner or thicker cut angle than the those that are achieved by aiming at 1/8, A, B or C. I and some others here hold that aiming at any of these points will result in discrete cut angles.

In order to change that discrete cut angle to one that is thinner or thicker, one can shift his dominant eye/s to the side of the original position by tilting or moving the head and eye/s to the desired side to achieve a new line that can be adjusted to by moving the cue, bridge and stance to a new location.
The pivot the tip of the cue to the center of the CB and adjust the head and eye/s and stance to the pivot - stroke and shoot.

I am traveling so I can't diagram this in Acad so I can only offer these Powerpoint cartoons.

This though may help some with this visual adjustment.


Name:  Pivot CTE 2 1.jpg
Views: 8542
Size:  86.5 KB

Name:  Pivot CTE 3 1.jpg
Views: 10320
Size:  72.3 KB



dumluk
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#380)
Bob Jewett
Northern California

Bob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 12,704
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
   
03-31-2012, 09:34 AM

Here is a plot of the cut angle you get versus the fullness of hit. For example, a fullness of 0.5 -- an exact half-ball hit -- gives a cut angle of 30 degrees. (This ignores throw which can be several degrees depending on speed, spin, cut angle and ball conditions, but that is mostly a separate issue.)
A couple of other fullnesses to note are 3/4 full which gives an angle slightly under 15 degrees and 1/4 full which produces about a 48-degree cut.

Name:  CropperCapture[7].png
Views: 2703
Size:  32.9 KB

A larger version of this is available at http://www.sfbilliards.com/fract.pdf as a PDF.


Bob Jewett
SF Billiard Academy
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#381)
mohrt
Student of the Game
mohrt has a reputation beyond reputemohrt has a reputation beyond reputemohrt has a reputation beyond reputemohrt has a reputation beyond reputemohrt has a reputation beyond reputemohrt has a reputation beyond reputemohrt has a reputation beyond reputemohrt has a reputation beyond reputemohrt has a reputation beyond reputemohrt has a reputation beyond reputemohrt has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,912
vCash: 400
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lincoln NE
   
03-31-2012, 03:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
Here is a plot of the cut angle you get versus the fullness of hit. For example, a fullness of 0.5 -- an exact half-ball hit -- gives a cut angle of 30 degrees. (This ignores throw which can be several degrees depending on speed, spin, cut angle and ball conditions, but that is mostly a separate issue.)
A couple of other fullnesses to note are 3/4 full which gives an angle slightly under 15 degrees and 1/4 full which produces about a 48-degree cut.

Attachment 220417

A larger version of this is available at http://www.sfbilliards.com/fract.pdf as a PDF.
That is interesting Bob, as I do move from thick to thin at 1/2 ball, and thin to very thin at 1/4 ball.


http://www.billiardsthegame.com/ Taking your game to the next level.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#382)
Patrick Johnson
Banned
Patrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond repute
 
Patrick Johnson's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 16,747
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2007
   
03-31-2012, 05:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
Here is a plot of the cut angle you get versus the fullness of hit. For example, a fullness of 0.5 -- an exact half-ball hit -- gives a cut angle of 30 degrees. (This ignores throw which can be several degrees depending on speed, spin, cut angle and ball conditions, but that is mostly a separate issue.)
A couple of other fullnesses to note are 3/4 full which gives an angle slightly under 15 degrees and 1/4 full which produces about a 48-degree cut.
Overlapping the CB/OB to the major ball fractions (1/4, 1/2, 3/4) is simple to see and repeat accurately, which is why "fractional" alignments have been used as aiming references since pool's beginning. Hal Houle later popularized fractional aiming as "3-angle" aiming and the technique remains mostly unchanged today as "SAM", "CTE" and probably multiple other versions.

Joe Tucker's "Aiming By Numbers" is sometimes described as a fractional technique, but it's more like "parallel lines aiming" with numbers - a good technique in its different way.

pj
chgo

Last edited by Patrick Johnson; 03-31-2012 at 05:39 PM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#383)
sfleinen
14.1 & One Pocket Addict
sfleinen has a reputation beyond reputesfleinen has a reputation beyond reputesfleinen has a reputation beyond reputesfleinen has a reputation beyond reputesfleinen has a reputation beyond reputesfleinen has a reputation beyond reputesfleinen has a reputation beyond reputesfleinen has a reputation beyond reputesfleinen has a reputation beyond reputesfleinen has a reputation beyond reputesfleinen has a reputation beyond repute
 
sfleinen's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 7,594
vCash: 4100
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Carmel, NY (1.5-hour north of Manhattan)
   
03-31-2012, 05:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Overlapping the CB/OB to the major ball fractions (1/4, 1/2, 3/4) is simple to see and repeat accurately, which is why "fractional aiming" uses those alignments. Ball fractions were used as aiming references well before Hal Houle popularized the technique as the "3-angle system", and the technique remains almost unchanged today as the "SAM" system, "CTE" and probably multiple others.

Joe Tucker's "Aiming By Numbers" system is sometimes described as a ball fractions technique, but it's more like "parallel lines aiming" with numbers -a good system in its different way.

pj
chgo
Pat:

Actually, you can add snooker's "Back of ball" aiming technique to the list in the last sentence of your first paragraph:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kLjSlHr38dc

(Go 1:00 into the video, where Trevor starts his presentation.)

-Sean


"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom." -Isaac Asimov

"They haven't got brains, any of them, only grey fluff that's blown into their heads by mistake, and they don't think." -Eeyore, The House at Pooh Corner
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#384)
scottjen26
AzB Silver Member
scottjen26 has a reputation beyond reputescottjen26 has a reputation beyond reputescottjen26 has a reputation beyond reputescottjen26 has a reputation beyond reputescottjen26 has a reputation beyond reputescottjen26 has a reputation beyond reputescottjen26 has a reputation beyond reputescottjen26 has a reputation beyond reputescottjen26 has a reputation beyond reputescottjen26 has a reputation beyond reputescottjen26 has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,364
vCash: 500
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Jacksonville, FL
   
03-31-2012, 08:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohrt View Post
That is interesting Bob, as I do move from thick to thin at 1/2 ball, and thin to very thin at 1/4 ball.
Me too. When I started with CTE/Pro1, I remember someone saying not to worry about the 15/30/45 thing as far as the transitions went and that my eyes would tell me when I need to change aim points or pivots. But from my experimentation early on, which I posted here last year, I determined that I needed to switch from an outside pivot to an inside pivot around 14 or 15 degrees, from A/C (1/4) to B (1/2) at 30 degrees, and B to 1/8 at 48 - 49 degrees.

Strange how that works...
Scott
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#385)
Patrick Johnson
Banned
Patrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond repute
 
Patrick Johnson's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 16,747
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2007
   
03-31-2012, 10:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sfleinen View Post
Pat:

Actually, you can add snooker's "Back of ball" aiming technique to the list in the last sentence of your first paragraph:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kLjSlHr38dc

(Go 1:00 into the video, where Trevor starts his presentation.)

-Sean
I'm familiar with that video - he describes an interesting combination of fractional and stick aiming. Kinda short on details, but that combination sounds like it could be effective in the right hands.

pj
chgo
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#386)
Bob Jewett
Northern California

Bob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond reputeBob Jewett has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 12,704
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
   
04-01-2012, 09:13 AM

Fractional ball ideas have been around for a while. Here is a page from "The ABC of Billiards" published in 1866.

Name:  IMG_0010.JPG
Views: 2449
Size:  42.9 KB


Bob Jewett
SF Billiard Academy
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#387)
champ2107
Banned
champ2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,061
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: May 2007
   
04-01-2012, 11:50 AM



here is something for you new guys lurking and following this thread that may help you out.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#388)
champ2107
Banned
champ2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,061
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: May 2007
   
04-01-2012, 12:48 PM



This is how i figure out my banks with cte/pro1. you can go through your shot selection starting with your straight in alignment and just continue through the shot selections all the way down to the 1/8 shot and you will see which shot selection is a bank and which one is not.You will be surprised sometimes because the system will show you a bank option you would not think of. This will also help the newer users figure out which shot selection you need to just shot straight in. There is a pattern to the cte/pro1 shot selections and when you figure it out and how it works, everything will become automatic to you.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#389)
Nick B
This is gonna hurt
Nick B has a reputation beyond reputeNick B has a reputation beyond reputeNick B has a reputation beyond reputeNick B has a reputation beyond reputeNick B has a reputation beyond reputeNick B has a reputation beyond reputeNick B has a reputation beyond reputeNick B has a reputation beyond reputeNick B has a reputation beyond reputeNick B has a reputation beyond reputeNick B has a reputation beyond repute
 
Nick B's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 2,125
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Vancouver
   
04-01-2012, 02:17 PM

So Champ you have no problem visualizing a virtual table pocket 5.8 feet away (adding for the table shelf). I hope all the tables you play on bank long. Not sure what this has to do with Fractional Aiming Systems.

Nick


Cue: Foster, Break/Jump: Foster
http://www.fostercues.com/
Name: Nick Beretanos
Location: Vancouver BC
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#390)
champ2107
Banned
champ2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond reputechamp2107 has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,061
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: May 2007
   
04-01-2012, 02:36 PM

pretty much visual aids Nick to help with shot selection using cte/pro1 but if you and PJ or who ever have an issue with me posting in this thread about cte/pro1 i will stop and you can talk about this meaningless fractional system stuff, go ahead
  
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 26 of 58 « First 16242526 272836 Last »

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.