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03-31-2012, 08:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogsPlayingPool View Post
OK, if that's the case, and the Blue Circle also matches the Cents it comes with AND Saluc says the Cents and Super Pros are the same balls except the graphics, then that means that the Blue Circle and Red Logo are the same ball. I think. My head hurts from trying to follow my own logic.

And now I still have no idea of where that leaves the red circle ball.
Mitch:

Apologies for the lack of reply to your last IPT-vs-Tournament ball set question (or was it rather a "pondering"?).

Again, I'm not too sure of the red- or black-logo'ed ball. AtLarge is most likely right that these balls probably shipped with their respective sets (Super Pro and Premium, respectively) for as long as those ball set offerings have been on the market. Most of the sets I've seen people buy, however, tended to lean away from those sets -- just about everytime I've seen someone using an Aramith ball set, it were one of the two sets with the measles ball. That could be a northeast thing, though.

As for the Red Circle, I think it can be confidently stated that the Red Circle is a "lone wolf" cue ball (single ball) offering by Aramith. It is definitely not bundled or included with any ball sets. And that would be for its point-purpose use -- as a "favorite" cue ball used by rotation players for its "zinginess" (ability to be moved great distances around the table with less effort).

I found one other thread where I posted cue ball information:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showth...44#post2995744

Unfortunately, the other one, which had cue ball weights, was in a thread that got derailed by aiming system speak (don't ask me how), and the thread got removed because it nose-dived into the ground.

I'll have to repost that information with the cue ball weights -- I have that information in a file somewhere.

-Sean


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03-31-2012, 05:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sfleinen View Post
... Again, I'm not too sure of the red- or black-logo'ed ball. AtLarge is most likely right that these balls probably shipped with their respective sets (Super Pro and Premium, respectively) ...
Sean -- the black logo ball I'm talking about is in the Aramith Tournament set (the newest formulation), not the Premium or Premier set.

I do hope you're able to find your cue-ball weights information; I doubt that the Aramith red circle ball is much different from the others.
  
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03-31-2012, 05:24 PM



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03-31-2012, 10:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogsPlayingPool View Post
I forgot to mention I also have a set of the Tournaments purchased shortly after they came out, so I know for a fact they don't come with the measle ball. That cue ball has the black logo but with the tournament "broken circle" around it (like the rest of the balls in the set).

Fatboy started a thread shortly after the new Tournaments came out and iirc the cue ball that comes with that set is also new/different in some way as Fatboy said he had JA over and both were remarking that the CB played different. I haven't used them yet so I can't say what's different about it. But I'd guess it is a new ball made to go with that top of the line set, even if it's not identical to the rest of the Tournament ball set. If I had to take a stab at it I'd say the Tournament cue ball is also made with the Duramith resin.
I'm fairly sure that the BLK logo cue ball is made from a new material that is supposed to not leave the little white friction burn marks on the cloth. So the cloth is supposed to last longer. With this less friction in mind I think that it definitely would play differently, it would have to. It's the Duramith Resin.

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03-31-2012, 10:51 PM

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Originally Posted by sfleinen View Post
Ah, OK. Like I said, I'm not familiar with either the red-logo'ed or black-logo'ed ball, but I definitely can believe they play different from, e.g., the blue circle or measles balls.

I have the IPT Tournament Edition set, which is a re-branded (OEM'ed?) version of the Aramith Tournament Edition set that the IPT had commissioned. It has an IPT-logo'ed cue ball -- the IPT logo is black and encircled as well. I just substituted the measles ball I already had, and have been happy with 'em.

It would be very cool if we could pool all of our cue ball information into one spot, and distill it down to the facts. It's unfortunate that a lot of "mistaken identity" and "mistaken properties" go around concerning cue balls.

-Sean
The red logo Arimith cue, where the logo is shaped like an eye sort of is their original cue ball I think I am older than you.
  
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04-07-2012, 11:56 AM

OK guys, I sent an email to Aramith about this subject and received the following reply:

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your e.mail.

Please find attached a sheet summarizing the information on the cue balls.

Hoping this answers your query,

Best regards.

ARAMITH - BELGIUM


------

Here's the attachment (Word doc):

Aramith Cue Balls (3).doc

Not sure this will end the debates. According to this the Red Logo, Blue Circle, and Measle are all the same ball. They are made from the same resin (Super Aramith Pro) and obviously are all regulation size and weight.

That the Red Logo and Blue Circle are the same makes sense since they come with the Super Pros and Cents respectively, and those two sets are said to be the same. Don't know much about how these play different from each other. But I'm surprised about the Measle ball because it does seem to play different than the Blue Circle, at least to me.


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04-07-2012, 02:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogsPlayingPool View Post
OK guys, I sent an email to Aramith about this subject and received the following reply:

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your e.mail.

Please find attached a sheet summarizing the information on the cue balls.

Hoping this answers your query,

Best regards.

ARAMITH - BELGIUM


------

Here's the attachment (Word doc):

Attachment 221429

Not sure this will end the debates. According to this the Red Logo, Blue Circle, and Measle are all the same ball. They are made from the same resin (Super Aramith Pro) and obviously are all regulation size and weight.

That the Red Logo and Blue Circle are the same makes sense since they come with the Super Pros and Cents respectively, and those two sets are said to be the same. Don't know much about how these play different from each other. But I'm surprised about the Measle ball because it does seem to play different than the Blue Circle, at least to me.
Mitch:

What's truly bizarre, is that only several years ago, all three of these cue balls were indeed different -- different weights and different compositions. You can just *look* at each of these three balls, and see the differences in opacity and color, nevermind the obvious differences you notice when you put the cue balls on the scale.

What I think happened of late, is that the Saluc factory, in the spirit of absorbing their "acquisitions" (e.g. Brunswick's and Aramith's products), have decided to standardize all the products. It makes sense, too, and is done in the corporate world all the time. For instance, in my neck of the industry, when Cisco Systems swallows-up another company, it's not too long after that that the acquired company's products get "Cisco-ized" and absorbed into the Cisco product line. Look what happened with Sun Microsystems when Oracle acquired them -- the previously-enjoyed breadth of Sun's product lines were hacked-down into what Oracle likes to call "a streamlined product series," and they were "red cloud"-branded. (We in the I.T. industry like to refer to Oracle as "The Red Cloud.")

I wouldn't be surprised if Saluc's cue ball offerings are now experiencing the same "standardization."

-Sean


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04-07-2012, 02:31 PM

Yeah, maybe my Blue Circle and Measle ball are pre-standardization, I don't know, but I've had them no more than 3 or so years. But I definitely perceive a difference in how they play. The BC ball just seems to pick-up and scrub speed differently than the 6 Dot on draw, follow, and spin shots. The 6 Dot just seems more linear than the BC ball in that regard.

As far as color or weight goes, that doesn't mean much to me when describing individual balls. These differences can arise from the manufacturing process of different batches as well as discoloration over time. My 6 Dot is definitely whiter than my BC ball, but color additives may be different. Still, if it is the same resin I doubt color additives make much difference, if any, in how they play.


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04-13-2012, 07:46 PM

First I'd like to say thanks to many of you. The information I glean from this site is amazing. (as long as I avoid some of the high drama threads in other sections! Hehe)

Question for Sean: you mentioned on page one of this thread that the six dot measles is trademarked by Aramith. Yet I got a measles ball from Seyberts that was not Aramith and has six dots. Was going to post a link, but son of a gun, it is no longer on the web site that I can find.

Curious as to what I have. I'll try and weigh it soon for comparison sakes. In your experience, what are the primary deficiencies of a knock-off ball?

Thanks!
  
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04-13-2012, 07:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobMan View Post
First I'd like to say thanks to many of you. The information I glean from this site is amazing. (as long as I avoid some of the high drama threads in other sections! Hehe)

Question for Sean: you mentioned on page one of this thread that the six dot measles is trademarked by Aramith. Yet I got a measles ball from Seyberts that was not Aramith and has six dots. Was going to post a link, but son of a gun, it is no longer on the web site that I can find.

Curious as to what I have. I'll try and weigh it soon for comparison sakes. In your experience, what are the primary deficiencies of a knock-off ball?

Thanks!
I will chime in with what I have found of the imposter.

The size, weight, and color are not correct.

Steve


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04-14-2012, 08:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobMan View Post
First I'd like to say thanks to many of you. The information I glean from this site is amazing. (as long as I avoid some of the high drama threads in other sections! Hehe)

Question for Sean: you mentioned on page one of this thread that the six dot measles is trademarked by Aramith. Yet I got a measles ball from Seyberts that was not Aramith and has six dots. Was going to post a link, but son of a gun, it is no longer on the web site that I can find.

Curious as to what I have. I'll try and weigh it soon for comparison sakes. In your experience, what are the primary deficiencies of a knock-off ball?

Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekur1 View Post
I will chime in with what I have found of the imposter.

The size, weight, and color are not correct.

Steve
Hi guys!

Steve's right -- if you've any experience with a genuine Aramith Pro-Cup (measles) ball, the imposter ball looks and feels incorrect. (Steve, that imposter ball you speak of -- was that the same ball in one of the "spare" sets of balls at the 14.1 Challenge booth? If so, I did notice a big difference when I hit a couple racks with it -- it didn't "feel" like a genuine measles ball at all.)

Also, I don't know if you guys noticed, but Aramith (or Saluc, rather) is getting pretty aggressive in their "avoid the imposters" campaign:

http://saluc.com/html/billiard/index.php?idlien=9

I recall seeing a couple ads already in the major pool magazines about this.

And, other than the obviously-different Sterling knock-off of the Aramith Pro-Cup ball (link provided previously, and which does have 8 red spots compared to the measles' 6, so that it's not "obviously intending" to mislead customers into thinking it's the real mccoy), most have been yanked from availability, probably due to Saluc's intervention. I respect Seyberts (and PoolDawg) for acting quickly when being notified that they're offering for sale a counterfeit of a trademarked product.

-Sean


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04-14-2012, 08:36 AM

Not sure that the 8 dot would be infringement, but I'm no lawyer. But more than likely Saluc threatened to pull their distributorship if they continued selling what they consider a counterfeit.


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04-14-2012, 08:52 AM

Sean,

May I suggest that you edit your original post to reflect reality? Not everyone will read the whole thread to get the correct info.

There is too much misinformation out there about cue balls and this is how it happens.

Thanks
Courtney
  
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04-14-2012, 08:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by desmocourtney View Post
Sean,

May I suggest that you edit your original post to reflect reality? Not everyone will read the whole thread to get the correct info.

There is too much misinformation out there about cue balls and this is how it happens.

Thanks
Courtney
Courtney:

What do you mean? Are you talking about the measles ball information, re: imposters?

And, while I respect the notion to correct misinformation about cue balls, you seem to be implying that "I'm a part of it" via your "...and this is how it happens" piece. I think you can see I'm actually trying to help, not misinform. Also, a lot of the information you see "progressing" through the thread is because that's how it transpired. It wasn't my doing, trust me, but I graciously accept corrections as quickly as they come.

-Sean


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04-14-2012, 11:29 AM

Sean,

I am talking about this;


Red Circle -- It's properly known as the Aramith Red Circle cue ball. This is the "zinger" cue ball that is approximately an ounce less in weight than the object balls, and is therefore a favorite of 9-ballers, because "it makes it easier for them to move the rock around" (especially with draw). This is definitely *NOT* a good ball to use for 14.1!


Nothing personal, I just hate to see bad info put out there in such an authoritative manner.

It would be great if someone like Dr Dave would investigate the different cue balls and report findings.

Thanks
Courtney
  
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