TAR Podcast #19 with Mike Dechaine and Dennis Hatch now up on YouTube

Simple Question About Red Circle

Very interesting comments on the video about the Red Circle vs Measle Ball. Go to: 47:00 - start w/commentary on Valley Forge.

My question is, are these two cue balls below the same:

Aramith Red Circle - probably what they are referring to: (http://www.billiardwarehouse.com/accessories/cuestix/CBRC.html)

Super Aramith Pro Cue Ball (also with red marking) (http://www.billiardwarehouse.com/accessories/cuestix/CBSAP.html)

The reason I ask is locally, they have the Pro Cue version (which has a red Aramith symbol on it) and not the Red Circle. But the Pro Cue is yellowish. Just see what people's opinions are.

I play with the Measle Ball now and might pick up a Red Circle just to see.
 
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sfleinen said:
It's not obvious? Dennis has a good business sense -- he talks about the here and now, as well as what proved to be successful in the past (e.g. the Camel tour). Mike is enthusiastic -- that's for sure -- but he lacks this kind of seasoning.

-Sean
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maybe we watched a different podcast? I came away very impressed by Mike. Dennis pretty much said he is a lost puppy at age 41, he did come across as a nice guy on the cast though.
 
Black-Balled said:
And, not to out Dennis' secret to top-level pool;):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboy_pool
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I think maybe he didn't want anyone to know he was good at it, is all I can think of. Although how many times would that game up in trying to get a game? :D But I guess there could be some rich dude that got to where he thought he was good at it, then it would come in handy to play stupid and pretend it was going to be the 1st time you ever played it.

Sounds interesting...though the first sentence is a little off, now that we know Dennis played it extensively. :D

Kind of like darts I guess where you have to go out on a specific number, which makes it harder. Sounds interesting though. I can see a lot of strategy involved. I'm sure it's a lot more invovled then just swinging at balls. Like bumping a ball towards a pocket but needing to leave the balls in position for the next guy to where he can't get to the one you moved there and hoping you have the ability to carom into it, rather then them. Sounds like a way to make your quarters last a lot longer on a bar table :D I'll have to give it a try on my next free pool night just to see how difficult it is to reach 101. I would be very interested in seeing it played by 2 good players just to get a idea of the strategy.

Although popular enough that its rules remain listed in authoritative rule books alongside just a handful of other games,[3] apart from a small sanctioned tournament held in 1914, cowboy pool is strictly an amateur game.[1]


Rules

Cowboy pool uses only four balls, the cue ball and three numbered balls, the 1, 3, and 5. The balls have a set opening placement: The 1 ball is placed on the head spot; the 3 ball on the foot spot; and the 5 ball on the center spot. As in the game of snooker, pocketed balls are immediately respotted to their starting position. Beginning with cue ball in-hand from the kitchen —the area behind a pool table's head string —the incoming player must contact the 3 ball first. If the player fails to do so, the opponent may either force the player to repeat the break shot, or elect to break him or herself.[1][3]

For the first 90 points of the 101 needed to win the game, points are scored in three ways: 1 point for caroming the cue ball into any two object balls; 2 points for caroming into all three object balls; and a player scores the face value of any ball pocketed, i.e., if the 3 ball is pocketed, the player scores 3 points. Thus, the maximum score possible on any single shot is 11 points, achieved by caroming off and pocketing all three balls. The failure to score in one of the delineated manners on any shot ends the player's inning at the table. All fouls in Cowboy pool result in the player losing all points scored during the inning (not just those on the fouled stroke), and the opposing player comes to the table with cue ball in position except in the case of a scratch, which results in ball-in-hand from the kitchen.[1][3]

The 90th point in cowboy pool must be reached exactly and the failure to do so is a foul resulting in a loss of turn. For example, this means that a player with 89 points, who then scores 2 points rather than exactly 1, has committed a foul. Once the 90 point benchmark is reached, all points up to the penultimate 100 must be made by caroms. The pocketing of balls during this phase of the game garners no points. The final point necessary to reach 101 and the win must be made by a losing hazard – an intentional scratch made by caroming the cue ball off one of the three object balls.[1][3]
 
RunoutJJ said:
That's what I thought you meant... Well sure I agree with the fact that Dennis and other guys his age have been around pool for a very long time. Him and they no the ins and outs or what will work and what doesn't but.... I think Mike has tons of enthusiasm and is young enough to possibly do something or create something. Nothing is written in stone so you never know what you can do. Will it be difficult?? You would be a fool to say it wouldn't be.. Will new ideas and ventures die as soon as it takes off?? Maybe but you never know until you try.

Most people are afraid to do anything that involves big to HUGE risks!! These "risk takers" are the ones that make the mold for the new.. The future and beyond. Look at any person in the history of man that achieved lasting change!! They took plenty of risk and put all their eggs in one basket.. They burned every bridge to lead them to safety if all failed. They so strongly BELEIVED that they would do what they set out to do and guess what?? They won!! They changed peoples lives forever!!!

Maybe Mike (Or anybody for that matter) will one day achieve his or their vision for something that they love!! They only way that will ever happen is if he disregards anything negative and never strays from the path to his goal!!

[...]

You get what you put into it and thats it. Sad to say but look at the state of affairs. You want things to be better than DO IT!!!!!! Do it or get your tent and setup camp at occupy (insert city) and wait for your hand out..

I believe in ya Mike.. DO IT!!!!

Sorry for the long rant.... Over :lol:
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RunoutJJ:

Nice post, but you're overlooking one important detail: history is LITTERED with those that thought they had the "vision," but lacked the genuine "can do" -- meaning, with an actual foreseeable, executable plan. I know what you're saying -- the movers and shakers of the world weren't the contemplative types that romanticized about days of old. Rather, they were the ones who went against the flow, and were able to *do* something.

But those people -- and you can point at them definitively -- had that "something" that made it work. You have to have "it" -- and we all know what "it" is. It's that magic, that you know this person is destined for greatness. You can just feel "it" when you listen to them, or are in their presence.

Just being young and energetic isn't the panacea. People seem to think that being "young" is the magic ingredient that is going to effect a major shift in goings on. But like I said, history is littered with these examples of young "rebels" who thought they can change the world -- without a plan or without "it" -- and either fell flat on their face, or disappeared from view.

Don't get me wrong -- I applaud Mike's energy and enthusiasm. But at the same time, I didn't get the sense that Mike had "it." In fact, there were quite a few times where he's seen to be grasping for thoughts, and just quite didn't have them there -- he was grasping and truncating his sentences, changing directions, or just leaving thoughts hanging unfinished. When you don't have "it," then you must pursue seasoning instead, so that the plan can be based on factual "what's proven to work and what's proven not."

I'd love for him to prove me wrong, though. I would encourage him to do so.

-Sean

P.S.: your DJ story was great, and I'm glad to hear of its success. However, that "DJ night" story is a far cry from the massively greater problem of fixing pool.
 
Mike was talking from the players point of view and Justin was talking about the business part of it when Mike was grasping for thought. They were not on the same page in the discussion is all.
 
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"CaliRed". said:
I think maybe he didn't want anyone to know he was good at it, is all I can think of. Although how many times would that game up in trying to get a game? :D But I guess there could be some rich dude that got to where he thought he was good at it, then it would come in handy to play stupid and pretend it was going to be the 1st time you ever played it.

Sounds interesting...though the first sentence is a little off, now that we know Dennis played it extensively. :D

Kind of like darts I guess where you have to go out on a specific number, which makes it harder. Sounds interesting though. I can see a lot of strategy involved. I'm sure it's a lot more invovled then just swinging at balls. Like bumping a ball towards a pocket but needing to leave the balls in position for the next guy to where he can't get to the one you moved there and hoping you have the ability to carom into it, rather then them. Sounds like a way to make your quarters last a lot longer on a bar table :D I'll have to give it a try on my next free pool night just to see how difficult it is to reach 101. I would be very interested in seeing it played by 2 good players just to get a idea of the strategy.

Although popular enough that its rules remain listed in authoritative rule books alongside just a handful of other games,[3] apart from a small sanctioned tournament held in 1914, cowboy pool is strictly an amateur game.[1]


Rules

Cowboy pool uses only four balls, the cue ball and three numbered balls, the 1, 3, and 5. The balls have a set opening placement: The 1 ball is placed on the head spot; the 3 ball on the foot spot; and the 5 ball on the center spot. As in the game of snooker, pocketed balls are immediately respotted to their starting position. Beginning with cue ball in-hand from the kitchen —the area behind a pool table's head string —the incoming player must contact the 3 ball first. If the player fails to do so, the opponent may either force the player to repeat the break shot, or elect to break him or herself.[1][3]

For the first 90 points of the 101 needed to win the game, points are scored in three ways: 1 point for caroming the cue ball into any two object balls; 2 points for caroming into all three object balls; and a player scores the face value of any ball pocketed, i.e., if the 3 ball is pocketed, the player scores 3 points. Thus, the maximum score possible on any single shot is 11 points, achieved by caroming off and pocketing all three balls. The failure to score in one of the delineated manners on any shot ends the player's inning at the table. All fouls in Cowboy pool result in the player losing all points scored during the inning (not just those on the fouled stroke), and the opposing player comes to the table with cue ball in position except in the case of a scratch, which results in ball-in-hand from the kitchen.[1][3]

The 90th point in cowboy pool must be reached exactly and the failure to do so is a foul resulting in a loss of turn. For example, this means that a player with 89 points, who then scores 2 points rather than exactly 1, has committed a foul. Once the 90 point benchmark is reached, all points up to the penultimate 100 must be made by caroms. The pocketing of balls during this phase of the game garners no points. The final point necessary to reach 101 and the win must be made by a losing hazard – an intentional scratch made by caroming the cue ball off one of the three object balls.[1][3]
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Thats not how he plays it though. His Dad taught me to use this simpler but tougher version and I think it is gr8;
7, 8, 9 on the foot, center & head spots. You have to make a ball and billiard into another ball to score 1 point. the ball you pocketed is respotted immediately and you continue to run. I believe Dennis has close to a 30 point run! But that was when he was a younge man, lol

NOW what I really think would be gr8 for TAR as a feature or a prematch gig and for us would be a professional Cowboy Ring game. We used to have ring games with this game with 4, 5 or 6 players and you got paid for EVERY point you made. It's fast action, much fairer than a typical ring game as it doesn't really matter who you follow, has less luck and you get more shots. Give each player a certain amount of chips to start, raise the bet every so often like a poker tournament and we'll see some good action with lots of great shots.
I'm thinking Dennis might be up for it?
 
sfleinen said:
... I didn't get the sense that Mike had "it." In fact, there were quite a few times where he's seen to be grasping for thoughts, and just quite didn't have them there -- he was grasping and truncating his sentences, changing directions, or just leaving thoughts hanging unfinished. When you don't have "it," then you must pursue seasoning instead, so that the plan can be based on factual "what's proven to work and what's proven not."

I'd love for him to prove me wrong, though. I would encourage him to do so.-Sean

.
Click to expand...

IYou know how much it costs to hang a light? $400.
You know how much it cost to take down a light?;)
 
sfleinen said:
RunoutJJ:

Nice post, but you're overlooking one important detail: history is LITTERED with those that thought they had the "vision," but lacked the genuine "can do" -- meaning, with an actual foreseeable, executable plan. I know what you're saying -- the movers and shakers of the world weren't the contemplative types that romanticized about days of old. Rather, they were the ones who went against the flow, and were able to *do* something.

But those people -- and you can point at them definitively -- had that "something" that made it work. You have to have "it" -- and we all know what "it" is. It's that magic, that you know this person is destined for greatness. You can just feel "it" when you listen to them, or are in their presence.

Just being young and energetic isn't the panacea. People seem to think that being "young" is the magic ingredient that is going to effect a major shift in goings on. But like I said, history is littered with these examples of young "rebels" who thought they can change the world -- without a plan or without "it" -- and either fell flat on their face, or disappeared from view.

Don't get me wrong -- I applaud Mike's energy and enthusiasm. But at the same time, I didn't get the sense that Mike had "it." In fact, there were quite a few times where he's seen to be grasping for thoughts, and just quite didn't have them there -- he was grasping and truncating his sentences, changing directions, or just leaving thoughts hanging unfinished. When you don't have "it," then you must pursue seasoning instead, so that the plan can be based on factual "what's proven to work and what's proven not."

I'd love for him to prove me wrong, though. I would encourage him to do so.

-Sean

P.S.: your DJ story was great, and I'm glad to hear of its success. However, that "DJ night" story is a far cry from the massively greater problem of fixing pool.
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Awesome post and very good points. I now see where you are coming from with Mike. I also noticed that Mike seemed uneasy when conforted with certain questions or topics. Like you I would love to see him pull something off. It just seems that the black eye for pool is more like a bloody mess than a black eye.

Thanks for the comment about the DJ story. I only posted it to make a point that if you can envision it you can make it happen. Just because somebody else tired and failed shouldn't be a reason for you not to try. I did find out later that the guy that told me it wouldn't work was afraid of me or intimidated. Maybe he saw what I was doing and felt threated at losing his comfy residency...
 
"CaliRed". said:
...
Sounds interesting...though the first sentence is a little off, now that we know Dennis played it extensively. :D

I'll have to give it a try on my next free pool night just to see how difficult it is to reach 101. I would be very interested in seeing it played by 2 good players just to get a idea of the strategy./COLOR][/I]
Click to expand...

I am very interested in trying it too. Printed the rules and they are in my pocket now.

I can not remember the last time I was excited to go home and play pool...and I love me some 3cushion.

And Tucker- I agree and would love to see some film of you peeps playing. I believ you know how to make a video!?!?!

Only thing I could find on youtube was a video game footage.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...4tigCQ&usg=AFQjCNEzJUMdTlFPtmGU2-O3caRgwk7SRg
 
sfleinen said:
RunoutJJ:

Nice post, but you're overlooking one important detail: history is LITTERED with those that thought they had the "vision," but lacked the genuine "can do" -- meaning, with an actual foreseeable, executable plan. I know what you're saying -- the movers and shakers of the world weren't the contemplative types that romanticized about days of old. Rather, they were the ones who went against the flow, and were able to *do* something.

But those people -- and you can point at them definitively -- had that "something" that made it work. You have to have "it" -- and we all know what "it" is. It's that magic, that you know this person is destined for greatness. You can just feel "it" when you listen to them, or are in their presence.

Just being young and energetic isn't the panacea. People seem to think that being "young" is the magic ingredient that is going to effect a major shift in goings on. But like I said, history is littered with these examples of young "rebels" who thought they can change the world -- without a plan or without "it" -- and either fell flat on their face, or disappeared from view.

Don't get me wrong -- I applaud Mike's energy and enthusiasm. But at the same time, I didn't get the sense that Mike had "it." In fact, there were quite a few times where he's seen to be grasping for thoughts, and just quite didn't have them there -- he was grasping and truncating his sentences, changing directions, or just leaving thoughts hanging unfinished. When you don't have "it," then you must pursue seasoning instead, so that the plan can be based on factual "what's proven to work and what's proven not."

I'd love for him to prove me wrong, though. I would encourage him to do so.

-Sean

P.S.: your DJ story was great, and I'm glad to hear of its success. However, that "DJ night" story is a far cry from the massively greater problem of fixing pool.
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i wonder if that had to do with it being a "bit of a free for all at times" and Justin having the last word and keeping the podcast in control, pretty much? :shakehead: you need to look at all four people and there personalities at the table and the position a certain person may have over another. He was careful not to say something wrong (he even said it) and he was smart enough not to bite the hand that feeds him and left alone topics that certain people had strong opinions on.
 
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champ2107 said:
i wonder if that had to do with it being a "bit of a free for all at times" and Justin having the last word and keeping the podcast in control, pretty much? :shakehead: you need to look at all four people and there personalities at the table and the position a certain person may have over another. He was careful not to say something wrong (he even said it) and he was smart enough not to bite the hand that feeds him and left alone topics that certain people had strong opinions on.
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I was thinking the same...I have left meetings where I was an 'expert' and didn't provide any real input to discussions at hand.
 
Black-Balled said:
I was thinking the same...I have left meetings where I was an 'expert' and didn't provide any real input to discussions at hand.
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We have have meeting like that every friday and it all depends on what presidents or vice presidents are present in the meetings. Sometimes you don't say a word, sometimes its best to just hint at something and leave it alone, etc, you know how meetings go :) we get $50 fine if our cells go off, how about you lol
 
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Tar 19 podcast

To Lou,

Hey Lou, send me a pm or text and I will get message to Justin.
He is busy running the ppv but I can get a message to him.

Mark griffin
 
"CaliRed". said:
I thought it was the best podcast to date also. It was a nice mix representing the world of pool. You had a pro player that's been playing since he was a young kid and is old school and winding down his career, a up and coming pro player still wet behind the ears, a top promoter that has been a player, promoter, room owner and lives and breathes pool, and a top event promoter/streamer that interacts with everyone involved with the game from the players, vendors, promoters and the public.

Everyone was very passionate and outspoken about their viewpoints and it resulted in a very lively discussion.

Many thanks for the excellent round-table. I would live to see that every week but am realistic about it, so I just enjoyed it for what it was.
Mark met his match and no one had any trouble jumping in at any time :D
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tick - tick - bang

history being made cali !
our pool and billiard culture is being Rchived for the future.

like martha says: its a good thing
 
25 - 24 Dechaine

Question? Do they not like each other?

They don't appear to. No shaking hands and like that.
 
TheMarsMan said:
One of the best sets I have watched in a while!!!

Mike came back from 21 to 16 to win!!!
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Definitely a good one. I love that they are mic'd up. It adds an extra element to the match.

I would recommend anyone who didn't watch tonight to buy the rest. It is worth it. They are both playing well and showing a lot of emotion. Great set!
 
Great match. You could feel the tension. Dennis was strong and played better than Mike IMO. Mike faded his heat. Neither broke very well overall. Early in the set Mike got all the bad rolls it seamed. Later in the set he got a little lucky. I'm telling you the play was not as good as other TAR's but the vibe was incredible. Mics had a big thing to do with it as Brandon mentioned. Never seen anything like it.

Highly worth the price of admision...
 
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