A good trick for aiming.

caromcheese

caromcheese

Registered
Get down and practice by yourself for a few hours straight !!!! I've recently adopted SVB's aiming method with a few elements of Pro 1 to my game and it has improved my long shot making greatly. But here's the thing, a good friend mine went to the Billiard EXPO and got pro lessons on aiming, he has bought videos, and read almost everything on CTE, PRO1 etc. But he will practice for about 15 minutes and give up. He has spent far more time and money studying aiming systems but he thinks it should come automatic. A professional welder could "Tell" you or explain how to weld but until you pick up a welder and mess up a lot of welds you wont be able to do it correctly. I read about Pro 1, had my friend who recorded his lesson show me the tape and explain a few basics and then I spent hours by myself missing balls until I got it. One secret. There's a reason why most pros have a very long bridge. Aiming systems are very hard with short bridge IMO .
 
I have somewhat of a system (back of ball aiming, with a touch of ferrule aiming on some shots)...but I run into certain shots (sometime the same shots) that give me a bu#$-ache from time to time that require work. Recently it was a slightly bigger than 30 degree cut shot up the rail...not too thin, but definitely thinner than half ball hit. I took out all 15 balls sat near the corner pocket and set up the shot, shooting it until I made 5 in a row...then I increased the distance between the OB and pocket, and CB and OB...then I reversed the shot, shooting the opposite way up the other rail to the other Corner Pocket. Shot around running racks and then tried the shot again. I noticed right off I was hitting too thick, diving into the rail early by exactly one diamond. Obviously a sighting error, and thankfully it was consistent enough to adjust and reinforce. It's not exactly HAMB, but it's sort of the idea...whatever system or combo of systems you come up with, you will have a few shots that fall into gray areas and require some work from time to time.
 
West Point 1987 said:
I have somewhat of a system (back of ball aiming, with a touch of ferrule aiming on some shots)...but I run into certain shots (sometime the same shots) that give me a bu#$-ache from time to time that require work. Recently it was a slightly bigger than 30 degree cut shot up the rail...not too thin, but definitely thinner than half ball hit. I took out all 15 balls sat near the corner pocket and set up the shot, shooting it until I made 5 in a row...then I increased the distance between the OB and pocket, and CB and OB...then I reversed the shot, shooting the opposite way up the other rail to the other Corner Pocket. Shot around running racks and then tried the shot again. I noticed right off I was hitting too thick, diving into the rail early by exactly one diamond. Obviously a sighting error, and thankfully it was consistent enough to adjust and reinforce. It's not exactly HAMB, but it's sort of the idea...whatever system or combo of systems you come up with, you will have a few shots that fall into gray areas and require some work from time to time.
Click to expand...

Good post.
You know that if you shoot any shot with stun (english?), the shot will be thick and not geometrically correct. to get the CTE 30 degree shot to go at 30 degree, you need to use a bit of outside english, follow or draw.

On the otherhand, perhaps, one can aim the side of the ferrule to the outside edge of the OB to get closer to the geometric 30 degrees cut angle.:smile:
 
West Point 1987 said:
I have somewhat of a system (back of ball aiming, with a touch of ferrule aiming on some shots)...but I run into certain shots (sometime the same shots) that give me a bu#$-ache from time to time that require work. Recently it was a slightly bigger than 30 degree cut shot up the rail...not too thin, but definitely thinner than half ball hit. I took out all 15 balls sat near the corner pocket and set up the shot, shooting it until I made 5 in a row...then I increased the distance between the OB and pocket, and CB and OB...then I reversed the shot, shooting the opposite way up the other rail to the other Corner Pocket. Shot around running racks and then tried the shot again. I noticed right off I was hitting too thick, diving into the rail early by exactly one diamond. Obviously a sighting error, and thankfully it was consistent enough to adjust and reinforce. It's not exactly HAMB, but it's sort of the idea...whatever system or combo of systems you come up with, you will have a few shots that fall into gray areas and require some work from time to time.
Click to expand...

With ghostball, there are no shots that fall into grey areas. If your system doesn't handle all shots, get a new system.

This last year I put in over 1800 hours, 80% by myself all using ghost ball. The trick is putting in the time, and not the system used.

And with ghostball, there is no need to learn any other system as it applies to cut shots, banks, kicks, combo and caroms.
 
duckie said:
With ghostball, there are no shots that fall into grey areas. If your system doesn't handle all shots, get a new system.

This last year I put in over 1800 hours, 80% by myself all using ghost ball. The trick is putting in the time, and not the system used.

And with ghostball, there is no need to learn any other system as it applies to cut shots, banks, kicks, combo and caroms.
Click to expand...

I usually use ghost ball. It amazes me how far off I can be sometimes.
I will just place the cue into the ghost position from the angle I am shooting from. Then I go directly behind the cue ball /object ball to look where I'm really aimed.
It's sometimes WAY off. Other times right on the money allowing for throw.
 
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Starting to get on the wagon of the ghostball. Started practicing with Joe Tuckers magic eye and using the B.A.T, my aiming has gotten better. As with the Magic Eye Joe gives you little sticker dots to be placed on the Magic Eye which gives you a ghostball image. With practice with the Third Eye Stroke Trainer, Magic Eye, and the BAT no need for a aiming system just a good stroke but thats jmo.
 
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Shaky1 said:
I usually use ghost ball. It amazes me how far off I can be sometimes.
I will just place the cue into the ghost position from the angle I am shooting from. Then I go directly behind the cue ball /object ball to look where I'm really aimed.
It's sometimes WAY off. Other times right on the money allowing for throw.
Click to expand...

Shaky1:

The problem with this approach is that you're trying to predict where the ghost ball's contact point would be on the cloth. If by placing the tip of the cue on where you think the ghost ball is contacting the cloth, you're opening yourself up to an incredibly huge opportunity for error, as unless you can accurately visualize a perfectly-sized ghost ball (that matches the cue ball) resting upon a spot on the cloth that you can't normally see under a ball anyway. That's not the way ghost ball is usually used.

Rather, the proper way is to visualize the ghost ball in contact with the object ball in line with the pocket, and you aim to "shoot into the space of" where you're visualizing the ghost ball. You're not aiming at a spot on the cloth, but rather "into the space of" the ghost ball -- most likely both edges of the cue ball lined-up with both edges of the ghost ball.

That's basic ghost ball practice, anyway. Even that is not the most accurate way of using ghost ball concepts. The most accurate is what snooker players use, and that's called "back of ball" aiming -- where you aim to eclipse the object ball by a certain amount by the cue ball, to make the correct contact points meet between the cue ball and object balls. This is described in this video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kLjSlHr38dc

Again, the idea -- as with all aiming systems -- is to remove as much "perception" or "visualization" (read: opportunities for error) from the line of aim.

Hope this helps,
-Sean
 
You're soooo right 100%

sfleinen said:
Shaky1:

The problem with this approach is that you're trying to predict where the ghost ball's contact point would be on the cloth. If by placing the tip of the cue on where you think the ghost ball is contacting the cloth, you're opening yourself up to an incredibly huge opportunity for error, as unless you can accurately visualize a perfectly-sized ghost ball (that matches the cue ball) resting upon a spot on the cloth that you can't normally see under a ball anyway. That's not the way ghost ball is usually used.

Rather, the proper way is to visualize the ghost ball in contact with the object ball in line with the pocket, and you aim to "shoot into the space of" where you're visualizing the ghost ball. You're not aiming at a spot on the cloth, but rather "into the space of" the ghost ball -- most likely both edges of the cue ball lined-up with both edges of the ghost ball.

That's basic ghost ball practice, anyway. Even that is not the most accurate way of using ghost ball concepts. The most accurate is what snooker players use, and that's called "back of ball" aiming -- where you aim to eclipse the object ball by a certain amount by the cue ball, to make the correct contact points meet between the cue ball and object balls. This is described in this video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kLjSlHr38dc

Again, the idea -- as with all aiming systems -- is to remove as much "perception" or "visualization" (read: opportunities for error) from the line of aim.

Hope this helps,
-Sean
Click to expand...

You explained it perfectly.
 
I've used the "back of the ball" aiming for as long as I can remember.

The trick is to move back away from the table until the line of aim pops out at you (usally 2 or 3 feet). I aim thru the cue ball as though its a ghost ball and shoot at the OB with the tip of my cue.

When the tip is outside of the OB then tip widths are used.

John
 
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sfleinen said:
Shaky1:

The problem with this approach is that you're trying to predict where the ghost ball's contact point would be on the cloth. If by placing the tip of the cue on where you think the ghost ball is contacting the cloth, you're opening yourself up to an incredibly huge opportunity for error, as unless you can accurately visualize a perfectly-sized ghost ball (that matches the cue ball) resting upon a spot on the cloth that you can't normally see under a ball anyway. That's not the way ghost ball is usually used.

Rather, the proper way is to visualize the ghost ball in contact with the object ball in line with the pocket, and you aim to "shoot into the space of" where you're visualizing the ghost ball. You're not aiming at a spot on the cloth, but rather "into the space of" the ghost ball -- most likely both edges of the cue ball lined-up with both edges of the ghost ball.

That's basic ghost ball practice, anyway. Even that is not the most accurate way of using ghost ball concepts. The most accurate is what snooker players use, and that's called "back of ball" aiming -- where you aim to eclipse the object ball by a certain amount by the cue ball, to make the correct contact points meet between the cue ball and object balls. This is described in this video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kLjSlHr38dc

Again, the idea -- as with all aiming systems -- is to remove as much "perception" or "visualization" (read: opportunities for error) from the line of aim.

Hope this helps,
-Sean
Click to expand...

I picture the ghost ball exactly where it would be in space with the object ball at collision time. I see a "ghost ball". I see the two balls being together as in looking at a frozen combination. If you were to look at a cut shot, picture sliding the cue ball right up to the point that the balls would touch each other. That is the picture I see.
Sometimes I'm not seeing the right angle. If I freeze the two balls together then go behind the combination shot and look toward the pocket, I'm off. Sometimes by a lot. Even allowing for throw. I pick the wrong angle. I think it's an eyesight issue with me.
 
Shaky1 said:
I picture the ghost ball exactly where it would be in space with the object ball at collision time. I see a "ghost ball". I see the two balls being together as in looking at a frozen combination. If you were to look at a cut shot, picture sliding the cue ball right up to the point that the balls would touch each other. That is the picture I see.
Sometimes I'm not seeing the right angle. If I freeze the two balls together then go behind the combination shot and look toward the pocket, I'm off. Sometimes by a lot. Even allowing for throw. I pick the wrong angle. I think it's an eyesight issue with me.
Click to expand...

Shaky1 said:
Sean, I'm seeing what you see! I just don't see it right sometimes. :smile:
Click to expand...

Shaky1:

That's the reason why there are different aiming systems -- because different people have different abilities. Some have great 3D spacial visualization/perception, others don't. But where a person doesn't have this ability, they make up for it in another ability that the other [spacial-visualization-gifted] person does not have. However, I believe spacial-visualization ability can be built, with repetition and memorization.

This is where, believe it or not, an advanced method of using ghostball concepts comes in -- back-of-ball aiming. But there's a snag with this method -- you have to memorize some ball-to-ball relationships! That is to say, you have some homework to do.

What I'm talking about here is, can you recognize, say, a half-ball hit and the angle it produces upon collision? ("Recognizing" a half-ball hit is easy -- that's a core relationship used in other aiming systems like pivot-based aiming. But do you know the angle it produces upon collision?). Can you recognize a 1/4-ball hit, and the angle it produces? 2/3rd-ball? 3/4-ball?

If you don't, do this:

  1. Set that ball relationship up on your table
  2. Forget about the pockets on your table -- stuff them with towels so that you can't pocket balls in them and so they won't be a distraction for you. (Or better yet, do this on a 3-cushion/billiards table.)
  3. Shoot that shot -- shoot a half-ball hit, or 1/4-ball hit, or 2/3rd-ball hit, or what-have-you.
  4. Stay down on the shot -- stay in your "Finish" position.
  5. Observe where the object ball goes -- what angle it takes.
  6. Memorize it -- shoot this over and over and over again. Reposition the cue ball and object ball differently on the table each time, and shoot this same ball-to-ball relationship over and over again.
The idea is that you don't want to be concerned about the "pockets" on your table -- you only are concerned about the angles produced by different ball-to-ball relationships, and you're trying to memorize them.

You need to do this for the following CRUCIAL (i.e. fundamental) ball-to-ball relationships:
  • 1/4-ball hit
  • 1/3rd-ball hit
  • half-ball hit
  • 2/3rd-ball hit
  • 3/4-ball hit
  • 7/8-ball hit
Shoot those over and over, and MEMORIZE them! This is your "kit" -- you need to recognize these ball-to-ball relationships anywhere on the table. And when you do, you'll obviate the need to have to "see" or "visualize" a ghost ball -- a ball that isn't there and which will introduce considerable error if you don't have the ability to automatically "see" it. Memorize these ball-to-ball relationships, recognize them when you see them on the table, and YOU WON'T HAVE TO VISUALIZE A GHOSTBALL! Commit these to your "kit" and you'll bring back consistency into your game.

Believe it or not, those half-dozen ball-to-ball relationships I've bulleted above for you will give you an incredible amount of mileage. Those six ball-to-ball relationships occur in the lion's share of most shots you'll see on the table. I'm not kidding. When I view a table layout and pick out my shot, I go, "ah, that's a 1/3rd-ball hit, I know that one!" -- and then go fire it in.

The beauty of this style of aiming is that:
  • You will remove having to "visualize" a ghost ball in the shot.
  • You are adding a *tangible relationship* in its place.
  • You are giving yourself something to shoot at that removes the pocket from your line of aim. This is key, because you are now concentrating on only aiming at a 1/3rd, or 1/2, or 3/4, etc. ball relationship -- you are not focusing on the pocket. What this will do, is lessen the tendency to "steer" your cue, because you're not focused on the pocket.
  • You will greatly increase your ability at carom and combination shots.
Trust me on this one -- find yourself a quiet place to play, and just focus on hitting ball-to-ball relationships. Notice I said "hitting" and not "pocketing." The reason should be clear, because pocketing the ball is not the value here -- memorizing the angles produced *is*. Afterwards -- after you feel comfortable with recognizing a certain ball-to-ball relationship on the table (i.e. it's committed to your memory), set that shot up where the angle produced leads the object ball to a pocket, and shoot it. You'll notice that you "see" shots differently now, and you're not focused on the pocket any longer. Rather, you just "see" the ball-to-ball relationship, and you know that if you deliver your cue correctly to put that cue ball onto that object ball (i.e. "eclipsing" the object ball by that ball-to-ball relationship amount), you just *know* the object ball is heading for the pocket.

Thoughts?
-Sean
 
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"Some have great 3D spacial visualization/perception, others don't. But where a person doesn't have this ability..."

"Thoughts?"
-Sean

Excellent post.
Use the human brain as a processor. Commit to memory a look up table of shot angles to aiming fractions on the OB for instant recall at the table.

"...where a person doesn't have this ability...":smile::thumbup:
 
TheThaiger said:
Mine's 'who the hell gets up at 5.30am to write an essay about aiming'.

I worry for you, I really do.
Click to expand...

Ah, I see that I am now the fixation of TheContrarian -- him following me around and dinging me on just about every post I make. The worry should be about who's stalking who, Tim. I worry for *you* in that regard.

5:30am? If you must know, it only took me 15 minutes to type that up. I'm not kidding. How many times do I have to tell you that I'm a "stream of consciousness" writer -- that I quite literally can type as fast as I think? While you sit there and single-finger-on-each-hand poke at keys on the keyboard, I'm able to get complete thought pictures out in 1/10th the time.

Take a typing class sometime. Besides the obvious benefit of realizing just how slow at the keyboard you currently are, you'll have the side benefit of being outnumbered gender-wise 5-to-1 in the class, if you don't mind that sort of thing.

-Sean
 
LAMas said:
"Some have great 3D spacial visualization/perception, others don't. But where a person doesn't have this ability..."

"Thoughts?"
-Sean

Excellent post.
Use the human brain as a processor. Commit to memory a look up table of shot angles to aiming fractions on the OB for instant recall at the table.

"...where a person doesn't have this ability...":smile::thumbup:
Click to expand...

Funny you should mention "lookup table," LAMas. In my day job -- where fast typing skills are crucial (for documentation and knowledge-transfer reasons) -- having mental lookup tables is as well. In a way, my career dictated and honed the way I learned how to shoot pool.

Because I have to use my conscious/analytical mind to think about many things at once, I learned to relegate "repeatable" tasks to the subconscious. That includes shot pictures and angles (common angles committed to memory), as well as the physical act of delivering the cue.

Maybe I'm hopelessly biased, but this is where I believe some of the aiming system advocates have it all wrong. Aiming, to me, is a subconscious thing -- you should NEVER be using your conscious mind to aim a shot in a competitive match! Rather, in the heat of the moment -- which applies to anything -- having a mental "lookup table" of common repeatable tasks is key to consistency.

One should be thinking about shot choices and patterns, NOT about aiming!

-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
You need to do this for the following CRUCIAL (i.e. fundamental) ball-to-ball relationships:
  • 1/4-ball hit
  • 1/3rd-ball hit
  • half-ball hit
  • 2/3rd-ball hit
  • 3/4-ball hit
  • 7/8-ball hit
Shoot those over and over, and MEMORIZE them! This is your "kit" -- you need to recognize these ball-to-ball relationships anywhere on the table.
Click to expand...
Memorizing the cut angles produced by a core set of easy-to-see CB/OB overlaps is, of course, the basis for all "fractional" aiming systems, including simpler ones like Hal Houle's old "3-angle" system and more complicated ones like CTE.

Those six ball-to-ball relationships occur in the lion's share of most shots you'll see on the table.
Click to expand...
Sorry, gotta disagree. If you shoot these six cut angles accurately (without adjustment), they'll cover only a minority of the shots you'll see on the table. For example, these six angles are only about 1/4 of all possible angles to cut a ball on the spot into a 4.5-inch corner pocket (including "pocket slop"). All the cut angles between these six are made by starting with the closest "reference" angle and adjusting from there.

...What this will do, is lessen the tendency to "steer" your cue, because you're not focused on the pocket.
Click to expand...
If you're not consciously adjusting for the "in-between" shots, then you're doing something unconsciously - either adjusting your aim or steering your stroke.

I'm not criticizing the technique; it's used successfully by lots of players and systems. I'm just clarifying some details about how it actually works.

pj
chgo
 
sfleinen said:
Shaky1:

That's the reason why there are different aiming systems -- because different people have different abilities. Some have great 3D spacial visualization/perception, others don't. But where a person doesn't have this ability, they make up for it in another ability that the other [spacial-visualization-gifted] person does not have. However, I believe spacial-visualization ability can be built, with repetition and memorization.

This is where, believe it or not, an advanced method of using ghostball concepts comes in -- back-of-ball aiming. But there's a snag with this method -- you have to memorize some ball-to-ball relationships! That is to say, you have some homework to do.

What I'm talking about here is, can you recognize, say, a half-ball hit and the angle it produces upon collision? ("Recognizing" a half-ball hit is easy -- that's a core relationship used in other aiming systems like pivot-based aiming. But do you know the angle it produces upon collision?). Can you recognize a 1/4-ball hit, and the angle it produces? 2/3rd-ball? 3/4-ball?

If you don't, do this:

  1. Set that ball relationship up on your table
  2. Forget about the pockets on your table -- stuff them with towels so that you can't pocket balls in them and so they won't be a distraction for you. (Or better yet, do this on a 3-cushion/billiards table.)
  3. Shoot that shot -- shoot a half-ball hit, or 1/4-ball hit, or 2/3rd-ball hit, or what-have-you.
  4. Stay down on the shot -- stay in your "Finish" position.
  5. Observe where the object ball goes -- what angle it takes.
  6. Memorize it -- shoot this over and over and over again. Reposition the cue ball and object ball differently on the table each time, and shoot this same ball-to-ball relationship over and over again.
The idea is that you don't want to be concerned about the "pockets" on your table -- you only are concerned about the angles produced by different ball-to-ball relationships, and you're trying to memorize them.

You need to do this for the following CRUCIAL (i.e. fundamental) ball-to-ball relationships:
  • 1/4-ball hit
  • 1/3rd-ball hit
  • half-ball hit
  • 2/3rd-ball hit
  • 3/4-ball hit
  • 7/8-ball hit
Shoot those over and over, and MEMORIZE them! This is your "kit" -- you need to recognize these ball-to-ball relationships anywhere on the table. And when you do, you'll obviate the need to have to "see" or "visualize" a ghost ball -- a ball that isn't there and which will introduce considerable error if you don't have the ability to automatically "see" it. Memorize these ball-to-ball relationships, recognize them when you see them on the table, and YOU WON'T HAVE TO VISUALIZE A GHOSTBALL! Commit these to your "kit" and you'll bring back consistency into your game.

Believe it or not, those half-dozen ball-to-ball relationships I've bulleted above for you will give you an incredible amount of mileage. Those six ball-to-ball relationships occur in the lion's share of most shots you'll see on the table. I'm not kidding. When I view a table layout and pick out my shot, I go, "ah, that's a 1/3rd-ball hit, I know that one!" -- and then go fire it in.

The beauty of this style of aiming is that:
  • You will remove having to "visualize" a ghost ball in the shot.
  • You are adding a *tangible relationship* in its place.
  • You are giving yourself something to shoot at that removes the pocket from your line of aim. This is key, because you are now concentrating on only aiming at a 1/3rd, or 1/2, or 3/4, etc. ball relationship -- you are not focusing on the pocket. What this will do, is lessen the tendency to "steer" your cue, because you're not focused on the pocket.
  • You will greatly increase your ability at carom and combination shots.
Trust me on this one -- find yourself a quiet place to play, and just focus on hitting ball-to-ball relationships. Notice I said "hitting" and not "pocketing." The reason should be clear, because pocketing the ball is not the value here -- memorizing the angles produced *is*. Afterwards -- after you feel comfortable with recognizing a certain ball-to-ball relationship on the table (i.e. it's committed to your memory), set that shot up where the angle produced leads the object ball to a pocket, and shoot it. You'll notice that you "see" shots differently now, and you're not focused on the pocket any longer. Rather, you just "see" the ball-to-ball relationship, and you know that if you deliver your cue correctly to put that cue ball onto that object ball (i.e. "eclipsing" the object ball by that ball-to-ball relationship amount), you just *know* the object ball is heading for the pocket.

Thoughts?
-Sean
Click to expand...

This is great. I've recently re-adopted staying focused on angle and observing the ball to ball relationships an each and every shot and it's paying huge dividends. The last time my skills got to a plateau and I wanted to improve I reduced every shot to pushing the cue ball to a specific spot and focusing on the angle the object ball left at. I saw a rapid increase in accuracy (both in OB and CB) and having been stagnant for the last few years and not playing very much I've brought this back (although I don't stuff pockets, but it's irrelevant whether I make it or not) and in just a short amount of practice I'm back to a level I was shooting at a few years ago when I was playing several hours/day and I'm feeling like I will improve upon my best days.
 
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