How to apply english

How do YOU employ english

  • Total voters
    64
B

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
While learning about American Rotation, I began watching Joe Tucker's video's on using english. He mentioned that he doesn't like parallel english (the kind that I've been using) and prefers backhand english, fronthand english or a combination of both fronthand and backhand.

Since I'm new to the game, I'm open to ideas. I'd like to know how you apply english. If you can take the time to explain WHY that would be great too...but let's not start WWIII over it :grin:

Parallel english

Backhand english

Fronthand english

Backhand and Fronthand english together

Depends on the shot

Other
 
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bdorman said:
While learning about American Rotation, I began watching Joe Tucker's video's on using english. He mentioned that he doesn't like parallel english (the kind that I've been using) and prefers backhand english, fronthand english or a combination of both fronthand and backhand.

Since I'm new to the game, I'm open to ideas. I'd like to know how you apply english. If you can take the time to explain WHY that would be great too...but let's not start WWIII over it :grin:

Parallel english

Backhand english

Fronthand english

Backhand and Fronthand english together

Depends on the shot

Other

PS I wanted to make this into a poll, but I don't know how. I checked the "Post a Poll" option but don't see any "placers" or such to do so.
Click to expand...


Depends on the shot for me but my(most used) technique is a little different then most I've seen.I aim center ball and when i go through the cb i go in the direction of the spin im trying to get .Sorta like a wipe.

Anthony
 
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8pack said:
Depends on the shot for me but my(most used) technique is a little different then most I've seen.I aim center ball and when i go through the cb i go in the direction of the spin im trying to get .Sorta like a wipe.

Anthony
Click to expand...

I do something similar to that, but I dont aim center ball. I cue it up where I intend to hit it. I guess it's kind of like BHE, but I don't sway my whole body. It has just always felt natural to do it that way.
 
Given American pool players innumerable distractions, including, but not limited to:
Tip
Cue
Balance Point
Bridge
Position of Chin relative to cue
Dominant Eye
Conflicting Aiming Systems
Ball weight variations
Pool Shoes
Lack of cigarette smoke
Disagreeable music on the juke box
Stewing about the price of table time
And the price of water
Not to mention no sponsorship money
And the destruction of the country by whatever political party he does not support
I suspect that the average player doesn't know where he hits and couldn't reliably repeat it to be able to render a scientific observation about the efficacy of any of the particular techniques polled.

IMHO :D
 
I am SO glad I am NOT learning to play today in the internet age!

It is good and bad......the info out there is unlimited,but what direction to go is not clear!

I guess the best way is find an instructor you like and learn all you can!


G.
 
let's look at things . . .

We work for years getting really good at getting down in our stance in perfect alignment with the shot, the line between the cue ball and object ball that will pocket the ball. Then with back hand english we twist off of this line. The more side spin we use and the shorter our bridge the more we twist out of line or swing our grip hand out of line. I do suspect this is why a longer bridge is in vogue these days but I'm often not thrilled with backhand english over this issue.

Fore hand english works pretty well and since my body and grip hand is in alignment with the shot it actually "feels" pretty good. I have shot like this and other than resetting the bridge after I decide on the english I want to use it works just fine.

A combination of front hand and back hand english works and if you calculate things correctly and the phase of the moon is right no compensation of your aim is required for most shots.

Parallel english is nice. You line up perfectly, decide how much side you want, and offset that slight amount front and rear. Since there is no pivot point the offset is minimal at the grip hand. The downside is that you do have to allow for the modified path of the cue ball in almost every shot. This is still the method I normally revert to, I suspect mostly based on HAMB.

Now I am going to drag out another compromise that works well, using parallel english to get about half the side you want and back hand english to get the rest. Usually keeps you from having to do any radical realignment after you are down and reduces the need to calculate the cue ball's path.

I'm sure there are other ways of doing things. We could do parallel and front hand combined and that actually works well, I just don't like resetting my bridge once I am down on a line. We could also use a combination of front hand, back hand, and parallel englishes, should confuse hell out of everybody including ourselves.

How to apply side is definitely one of those things that it is best to try the various methods for awhile and then decide for yourself what you are comfortable with. All common methods work and work well.

Hu
 
BH english if I'm using low english with it. Parallel I guess when I'm on or above the horizontal centerline of the CB.
 
yeah but . . .

Gerry said:
I am SO glad I am NOT learning to play today in the internet age!

It is good and bad......the info out there is unlimited,but what direction to go is not clear!

I guess the best way is find an instructor you like and learn all you can!


G.
Click to expand...

Yeah but before the internet we couldn't shark them before we ever met them. Once you have a guy or gal thinking about what kind of english they use, cue ball paths, dominant eye and eye position, what grip, on and on, he or she can't remember how to make a ball! After the internet I do everything else around a table a thousand times better, I just can't make any balls anymore! :grin:

Hu
 
Depends on the shot, and I'm still experimenting and trying to perfect it even more. There are days when I feel like I can use any amount of english with the same accuracy as center ball - and then there are just days... :)

I used feel for 15+ years with normal maple shafts. After a long break, and switching to an LD shaft, as well as all of the information out there, I've tried a few things. Even charted a dozen or so common shots requiring english from different distances and shot all of them with soft, medium, and hard speeds and with 1 tip and maximum english. On each shot I tried parallel, front hand, back hand, and combination.

Interesting results, and very shaft specific and also specific I'm sure to your personal shooting style and bridge length. But a great exercise to do if you are unsure what really works for you or are inconsistent when using english. Really showed me what worked and what didn't for various shots.

Scott
 
Maybe I've just never heard it put that way. But what do you guys mean by back hand and forehand english?
 
I use what the shot calls for. Not that you can't run balls using just one method of applying spin. The thing is that BHE and parallel English offer different CB paths. With parallel English you get more deflection than you do with BHE. IMO it pays to know both.
 
Gerry said:
I am SO glad I am NOT learning to play today in the internet age!

It is good and bad......the info out there is unlimited,but what direction to go is not clear!

I guess the best way is find an instructor you like and learn all you can!


G.
Click to expand...

This. Quoted for truth. Put It In The Hole!
 
ShootingArts said:
We work for years getting really good at getting down in our stance in perfect alignment with the shot, the line between the cue ball and object ball that will pocket the ball. Then with back hand english we twist off of this line. The more side spin we use and the shorter our bridge the more we twist out of line or swing our grip hand out of line. I do suspect this is why a longer bridge is in vogue these days but I'm often not thrilled with backhand english over this issue.

Fore hand english works pretty well and since my body and grip hand is in alignment with the shot it actually "feels" pretty good. I have shot like this and other than resetting the bridge after I decide on the english I want to use it works just fine.

A combination of front hand and back hand english works and if you calculate things correctly and the phase of the moon is right no compensation of your aim is required for most shots.

Parallel english is nice. You line up perfectly, decide how much side you want, and offset that slight amount front and rear. Since there is no pivot point the offset is minimal at the grip hand. The downside is that you do have to allow for the modified path of the cue ball in almost every shot. This is still the method I normally revert to, I suspect mostly based on HAMB.

Now I am going to drag out another compromise that works well, using parallel english to get about half the side you want and back hand english to get the rest. Usually keeps you from having to do any radical realignment after you are down and reduces the need to calculate the cue ball's path.

I'm sure there are other ways of doing things. We could do parallel and front hand combined and that actually works well, I just don't like resetting my bridge once I am down on a line. We could also use a combination of front hand, back hand, and parallel englishes, should confuse hell out of everybody including ourselves.

How to apply side is definitely one of those things that it is best to try the various methods for awhile and then decide for yourself what you are comfortable with. All common methods work and work well.

Hu
Click to expand...

I agree with all that you say. I use all different methods & do mostly subconsciously. I could not tell what for what or why. It's what the feel for the shot & position at hand dictate. Like you say, I guess it's the HAMB syndrone.

I have started trying CJ Wiley's TOI pivot method & it works rather well also.
 
I practice parallel, hope my definition of parallel is the same as yours, but i truthfully do not know what i do when i am playing if i put thought into it during a shot i would miss. I like the pivot method it works but i cant grasp why. I have to play by feel when it comes to spin i concentrate on going straight through ball no steering or body English. I also like to put a touch of draw or follow. I hate shooting straight side spin idk why that is. That has me thinking now ..... thats wierd kick shots I may use strictly side spin. I know i use maybe a tip of English at most i lose the ball to far away from center. I would think that the pivot method works better with the extreme spin. The whole back hand English is just the pivot method made harder imo but i like parallel i can grasp it better and i dont have to do any thing different than i do on the verticle axis. U got to be a cueball engineer to play today my head hurts ...:confused:
 
ShootingArts said:
Yeah but before the internet we couldn't shark them before we ever met them. Once you have a guy or gal thinking about what kind of english they use, cue ball paths, dominant eye and eye position, what grip, on and on, he or she can't remember how to make a ball! After the internet I do everything else around a table a thousand times better, I just can't make any balls anymore! :grin:

Hu
Click to expand...

Hu, I like you man!

I still think I was lucky at 46 to be stuck between the old school days and the "internet" generation. In my life time I have played Sigel, Varner, Rempe, Hopkins etc....AND....Ronnie Alcano! :) doesnt get better then that!

G.
 
I wish I had never read this thread or asked a question in it. I went on youtube and watched Dr Daves' video on back hand english. Now this crap is all I've had on my mind and I'm going to play in a tourney tonight. Hopefully I can get that crap out of my head.:angry:
 
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