Analyze my stroke please - short videos from multiple angles

DeadStick

DeadStick

i like turtles
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Hi Gang, I'd appreciate some video analysis of my stance and stroke.

All shots are either power draw or power stop (center-ball punch), so as to better expose my stroke flaws.

I'm currently working on keeping my head and upper body more still on these power shots, but several of the videos clearly show my problem of "jerking" with small head motion when adding power. I'm also seeing some slight sideways deviation of the tip on follow-through, and have been playing with an alternative stance to try to straighten that out. Any tips along those lines, or anything else, would be appreciated.

These are very short vids, most only 20-25 seconds long:

1. SIDE VIEW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWlK5OLSZ5U

2. SIDE VIEW CLOSE 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UfT33ng_qI

3. SIDE VIEW CLOSE 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHnjq3NCQY4

4. ANGLED VIEW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xriC_PWq7sE

5. FRONT VIEW, 2 DRAW SHOTS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d1GvsXROSc

6. FRONT VIEW CLOSE DRAW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ckPnlDBH7w

7. FRONT VIEW CLOSE STOP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5jrEGVm5Go

8. FRONT VIEW CLOSE STOP, EXPERIMENTAL ANGLED STANCE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smkTJJ5mOEc

I welcome feedback from instructors and players alike. Thanks everyone for your time and knowledge!
 
Your grip is way too tight. You are likely clenching the cue before or at CB contact. Your knuckles are flat at the end of your finish (nice pendulum), and they should be tilted up, and on your pec. Looks like you are playing in Family Billiards. Contact Tom Seymour for help in making this correction. He teaches out of there; is one of our best instructors; and a master level player! Nice videos...just the right angles for us to see you! :thumbup:

www.beginnersmindpool.com

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
 
Scott Lee said:
Your grip is way too tight. You are likely clenching the cue before or at CB contact. Your knuckles are flat at the end of your finish (nice pendulum), and they should be tilted up, and on your pec. Looks like you are playing in Family Billiards. Contact Tom Seymour for help in making this correction. He teaches out of there; is one of our best instructors; and a master level player! Nice videos...just the right angles for us to see you! :thumbup:

www.beginnersmindpool.com

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Thanks Scott!! I definitely feel my grip clenching up on these power shots, so it's good to get feedback that you see that too. I play at Family a lot, but those vids were shot at Great Entertainer in San Mateo. I'll look up Tom, had heard of him but have never met.
 
I'd like to see more. Can you film yourself moving around the table shooting, as if in a real game?
 
First off good shooting I think you have pretty good form and basics, this makes it hard to pin down cause sometimes the flaws are hard to spot in an otherwise good stroke but I'll take a stab.
I was just looking for the reason you are coming across the ball right to left.
It took me a little while to see it but I think in order to get more draw you are trying to force the tip down into the bed and hitching your arm up and to the right causing the tip to go left, you may also be tightening the grip a little early but it's hard to tell from the vid.
Try to keep the tension out of your arm and grip, a relaxed stroke will get you the cue speed required to draw the ball and is much more accurate.

One other element with your initial alignment that may help is in your pre shot approach. you seem to anchor your right foot and then set down regardless of where the object ball is, one step in gets you on a better line than coming in from the side.

All minor stuff in my mind, nice work :)
 
If you pause the video, then hit the "L" key, you will advance frame by frame. It appears your stroke is laser straight and you do not lift up until after contact. It appears that both the lifting up and the cue going sideways on you are nothing more than a result of your arm stoppage at your finish position.

I used to have the same problem when trying Joe Tuckers test- shooting between two golf tees without knocking them over. I found that when my hand hit my chest, it would cause the hand to "slide'" off my chest and make the cue go a little to the side. I now have a little different stance, so my cue does not hit my chest at finish and stays straight.
 
The further you have to reach the less you can use your more powerful muscles

DeadStick said:
Hi Gang, I'd appreciate some video analysis of my stance and stroke.

All shots are either power draw or power stop (center-ball punch), so as to better expose my stroke flaws.

I'm currently working on keeping my head and upper body more still on these power shots, but several of the videos clearly show my problem of "jerking" with small head motion when adding power. I'm also seeing some slight sideways deviation of the tip on follow-through, and have been playing with an alternative stance to try to straighten that out. Any tips along those lines, or anything else, would be appreciated.

These are very short vids, most only 20-25 seconds long:

1. SIDE VIEW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWlK5OLSZ5U

2. SIDE VIEW CLOSE 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UfT33ng_qI

3. SIDE VIEW CLOSE 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHnjq3NCQY4

4. ANGLED VIEW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xriC_PWq7sE

5. FRONT VIEW, 2 DRAW SHOTS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d1GvsXROSc

6. FRONT VIEW CLOSE DRAW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ckPnlDBH7w

7. FRONT VIEW CLOSE STOP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5jrEGVm5Go

8. FRONT VIEW CLOSE STOP, EXPERIMENTAL ANGLED STANCE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smkTJJ5mOEc

I welcome feedback from instructors and players alike. Thanks everyone for your time and knowledge!
Click to expand...

You're standing a bit too far from the cue ball {in my opinion} so you have to "reach" for the shot, which creates a negative "chain of reactions". This makes it difficult to get power and still remain still. It's like punching something that's too far out in front of you as opposed to something that's withing reach.

I have a feeling you would play more accurately with a shorter bridge, and standing closer would automatically allow this to happen. I don't like the idea of just shortening your bridge, it need to be a result of less distance between your right hip and the cue ball.

The further you have to reach the less you can use your more powerful muscles for structure and foundation. I use my cue (from my right hip) to measure to the cue ball so I'm the same distance EVERY time, and I consider this essential. Unintentionally standing different distances from the cue ball is a common problem and it effects your touch/feel for every shot.

No matter how far you decide to stand from the cue ball I would suggest having a way to measure so you are consistent. Sometimes it's not our touch and feel that are the root of the problem (on "off" days), it's the distance from the cue ball is changing.

'The Game is the Teacher'
 
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Thanks, Slasher, Neil and CJ.

Slasher, you're right about my approach into the shot – I put my right foot on the line, then step forward with my left foot and sink into the shot while keeping my eyes on line. I've tried stepping into the line with my right foot first, but always questioned whether I was as precise that way. I'll re-visit that technique and practice with it, though, as I know that's what's commonly taught in the snooker stance and I do see the line better from one step back.

Neil, thanks for checking out my stroke with freeze frame. You're right, it does look like my tip deviates only after contact, and since I do hit my chest with my hand pretty hard on these power shots, it's no surprise that my hand is bouncing to my right a little.

CJ, I'll try getting closer to the cue ball. I'm 6'3" with long arms, so I'll probably need to bend my bridge elbow (more). I currently put my right foot on the line, and stand a cue's length from the front of my right hip to CB. I see what you're saying about it being easier to turn on the power if I'm not so far away, and sometimes it does feel like I'm reaching for the ball.
 
Scott Lee said:
Your grip is way too tight. You are likely clenching the cue before or at CB contact. Your knuckles are flat at the end of your finish (nice pendulum), and they should be tilted up, and on your pec.
Click to expand...

Scott (or anyone else) - I'm having trouble understanding what "your knuckles should be tilted up" at the end of my stroke means. Does someone have a pic of this or another way to describe it? What should my grip hand feel like / look like at the end of a power stroke?
 
DeadStick...Try this...when you cradle the cue at ball address (tip on CB), point your index finger straight at the ground. As you end your last backswing you should see your index finger pointing backwards (knuckles up). Your finger will point straight down at contact with the CB (knuckles flat), and should be pointing forward when your hand finishes against your chest. If your index finger is still pointing straight down at your finish, relax your grip until it points forward (knuckles up). BTW, this should happen on all shots. The finger thing is just a training tool. Hope this helps! :D

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

DeadStick said:
Scott (or anyone else) - I'm having trouble understanding what "your knuckles should be tilted up" at the end of my stroke means. Does someone have a pic of this or another way to describe it? What should my grip hand feel like / look like at the end of a power stroke?
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
DeadStick...Try this...when you cradle the cue at ball address (tip on CB), point your index finger straight at the ground. As you end your last backswing you should see your index finger pointing backwards (knuckles up). Your finger will point straight down at contact with the CB (knuckles flat), and should be pointing forward when your hand finishes against your chest. If your index finger is still pointing straight down at your finish, relax your grip until it points forward (knuckles up). BTW, this should happen on all shots. The finger thing is just a training tool. Hope this helps! :D

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Hmmm...I'll have to give that finger thing a try. I honestly don't know where my knuckles point at finish.

As for the OP, it might just be the lighting, but it looks like your head moves up a little when you're looking at the object ball.
 
Scott Lee said:
DeadStick...Try this...when you cradle the cue at ball address (tip on CB), point your index finger straight at the ground. As you end your last backswing you should see your index finger pointing backwards (knuckles up). Your finger will point straight down at contact with the CB (knuckles flat), and should be pointing forward when your hand finishes against your chest. If your index finger is still pointing straight down at your finish, relax your grip until it points forward (knuckles up). BTW, this should happen on all shots. The finger thing is just a training tool. Hope this helps! :D
Click to expand...

That's very helpful, I see what you mean now. Thanks Scott!
 
BeiberLvr said:
As for the OP, it might just be the lighting, but it looks like your head moves up a little when you're looking at the object ball.
Click to expand...

Yes, I noticed that about myself too. For some reason, due to the angle of my face (down) I think, it's hard for me to see the OB by moving only my eyes. I think my upper eyelids are getting in the way, but that is something I'm working on, too. Appreciate the feedback!
 
DeadStick said:
Yes, I noticed that about myself too. For some reason, due to the angle of my face (down) I think, it's hard for me to see the OB by moving only my eyes. I think my upper eyelids are getting in the way, but that is something I'm working on, too. Appreciate the feedback!
Click to expand...

Maybe an instructor can chime in on this as well if my advice is right or wrong.

I recently started playing with a lower stance and my chin on the cue. What helped me was to bend my neck just a little more. That way when looking straight ahead, I can already see the object ball.
 
additional

Obvious from the moment that you approached the shot. You are too far from the cb! Period. That is causing all of your problems! If you stood closer, your balance would automatically improve and you would be able to follow through effortlessly. Get your weight on your left foot and keep it there long after the stroke. That's move your feet towards the ball. THIS WILL CURE ALMOST ALL YOUR CURRENT PROBLEMS. Amen
 
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the kidd said:
Obvious from the moment that you approached the shot. You are too far from the cb! Period. That is causing all of your problems! If you stood closer, your balance would automatically improve and you would be able to follow through effortlessly. Get your weight on your left foot and keep it there long after the stroke.
Click to expand...

DeadStick ---- Please, please, please don't do that. That is terrible advice. Don't put your weight on your front foot.

I was contemplating asking you to stand a hair closer, but so that you can lean back slightly more, which would require a minor stance adjustment. But I'm not sure yet if that's an issue for you, which is why I would like to see you moving around the table and shooting, first.
 
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I think if you move closer to the cue ball your in for a long relearning curve, this could effect your timing quite a bit.
IMHO you should be closer but it's a bigger adjustment than you think.
A good example of this is if you really stretch out for a shot you have trouble controlling the CB, your contacting the ball at a different point along your stroke.
Not saying you shouldn't change but I just went through a battle with a new slightly shorter cue and it really messed me up for a while.
Oh btw it works ok for some guy name Busty :D
 
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