Figured I'd turn to the experts.......I've never seen one of these low deflection shafts so can someone explain the theory behind it please? I'm a little skeptical. How are they made? Are these shafts supposedly defying Newton's Third Law of motion? For every action there's an equal and opposite reaction. In pool, if you strike the cue ball to the right of center the ball MUST move to the left and the cue (to an extent) to the right. I mean...that's friggin physics....isn't it? Do the makers of these types of shafts claim that does NOT happen by using their shaft?
Low deflection shafts
- Thread starter Vince_Former_BB
- Start date
They are low deflection, not zero deflection. Deflection will happen no matter what. Very simply put, low deflection shafts are made by reducing the weight of the shaft at the tip end, thereby causing it to deflect away from the cue ball more than it would if it were heavier. The heavier the tip end is, the more the cue ball deflects away from the tip. Hit a baseball with a baseball bat, and the ball flies. Hit a brick wall with the same bat, and the bat bounces away from the wall.
The idea is to increase accuracy by reducing the amount of cue ball deflection. This way you can hit further off center and the ball still travel straight, because the shaft deflects away from it. The hope is that you can use side spin without having to compensate so much for it. That's pretty much the purpose of LD shafts.
The idea is to increase accuracy by reducing the amount of cue ball deflection. This way you can hit further off center and the ball still travel straight, because the shaft deflects away from it. The hope is that you can use side spin without having to compensate so much for it. That's pretty much the purpose of LD shafts.
How do they reduce the weight at the tip? I'm mulling over what you said and trying to work it out in my coconut. Let's assume a shaft weighs 4 ounces. Total weight of the cue is say 20. Nice round number..... So the cue ball weighs 4 ounces and is at rest. An object at rest tends to stay at rest until,acted upon...blah blah blah. 20 cue stick is traveling forward, .....object in motion tends to stay in motion...blah blah blah. 20 ounce pool cue with X amount of potential energy strikes static 4 ounce ball and a shaft that's had the tip weight lessened by....assume 1/4 ounce or 6-1/4% of the weight of the shaft or 1-1/4% of the total cue weight..is theoretically going to cause the cue ball to noticeably deflect less? Would loooooove to see that tested and filmed with one of those super high speed cameras. Have you played with one? What's your opinion? Does it work or is it marketing voodoo? Damn........Now I have to go find a physicist to run this past. Damn damn damn.
"Have you played with one? What's your opinion?" I'm figuring since you're asking those questions you're pretty new to playing pool. Yes LD shafts work. If you're a beginner and just learning how to use English then those shafts might help you out more than veteran players. They definetly make shooting long shots with lots if spin easier.
Actually no. Far from a beginner. Started playing at age 11 and I'm 54 now but been out of it entirely for some 10-13 years or so. Only recently started getting a renewed interest via some friends. Also worked for ten years with Tony at Black Boar at the very beginning. Played competitively for about 25 years so I do know the ropes. In the time I've been away from the game the marketplace has boomed with all kinds of new types of shafts and tips.....I'm just trying to figure out which direction I want to go.
I used to call bullshit on them. As embarrassing as it is, they work very well.
I think the cue ball actually weighs closer to the 6 oz neighborhood. Anyway, one of Newton's laws states that for every force action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Hitting the cue ball off center still sends it in roughly the direction the cue stick is pointed, but it squirts off line opposite the english applied. By reducing the weight of the business end of the shaft, they increase the cue SHAFT deflection which in turn decreases the cue BALL deflection from its intended line of travel. I always thought that a stiffer shaft would deflect less creating less cue ball squirt. I hate being wrong, but LD shafts do work.
They do as described, which is REDUCE deflection, not eliminate it. The amount varies from shaft to shaft. Technically, the weight of the tip itself can even have an affect. The player will have to adjust according to the amount of deflection that is reduced. I have played with almost all of them, and even have my own version(s) that I thinker with. In the end, I have found there is no substitute for a really nice shaft, whether it's labeled as low deflection or just a normal standard shaft. That's just my opinion. I can adjust to what I am playing with within several racks, and become comfortable with it. Some cues/shafts simply hit/perform/feel better than others & I play my best with a very nice hitting cue. Doesn't matter to me if it's LD or not. It's just an adjustment. Just my personal opinion.
You are absolutely right Lexicologist...they weigh between 5.5 and 6. I misspoke. Very interesting the way you guys describe the cause and effect so I'd love to hit with one. As for whether or not I ever hit with a tip and no ferrule.....I sort of recall trying something like that but I can't for the life of me remember the circumstances. I think I'd remember though if I'd liked it so I'm assuming it didn't suit my fancy.
Do you guys find yourselves switching back and forth from shaft to shaft to suit the environment or how you're playing at any given time? I've always had one shaft I'd play with and one as a backup should the top pop off my fave. Never switched.........ever.
LD shaft
You don't have to buy a new shaft, you can tune one of your existing shafts to have less deflection. cheaper than buying a new LD shaft ... I think.
Barionicues.com ... He has actually tested predator, ob, his own shafts in a robot. The video is on his site. Pretty good info IMO
You don't have to buy a new shaft, you can tune one of your existing shafts to have less deflection. cheaper than buying a new LD shaft ... I think.
Barionicues.com ... He has actually tested predator, ob, his own shafts in a robot. The video is on his site. Pretty good info IMO
I like the idea of testing with a machine. It looked like barioni's only shot at one speed which takes out a some important of variables. It would be nice to see an independent review of "ld" shafts.
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How can you tune your existing shaft to have less deflection ?
Easiest solution for a new shaft is to have a big ferrule tenon and drill out a 1/4 by 4 to 5 inches deep.
Ld
you can drill it out and reduce the weight at the end of the shaft, smaller ferrule and lighter ferrule material. Every shaft is different, you cant just drill the same depth on every shaft. Some may require more or less to get the achieved goal.
I would call John Barioni directly about this, he is happy to explain the technology. He is a great guy to deal with (209) 233-6291.
I'm currently testing one of his shafts now with a coco ferrule ( I haven't had enough hours to give a complete evaluation ). I will say that the technology works, I was very very skeptical to say the least.
you can drill it out and reduce the weight at the end of the shaft, smaller ferrule and lighter ferrule material. Every shaft is different, you cant just drill the same depth on every shaft. Some may require more or less to get the achieved goal.
I would call John Barioni directly about this, he is happy to explain the technology. He is a great guy to deal with (209) 233-6291.
I'm currently testing one of his shafts now with a coco ferrule ( I haven't had enough hours to give a complete evaluation ). I will say that the technology works, I was very very skeptical to say the least.
That technology has been around for a long time.
It's not a secret among makers anymore .
For an already made shafts with 5/16 tenon, I wouldn't recommend a 1/4 hole.
Isoplast ferrules are still being sold by Bruppert here. Isoplast is Predator's original ferrule.
agreed, not a secret.
I just think there are some makers taking it to another level, I could be wrong .... wood ferrule seems to be the choice for Barioni, says its lighter then all the other materials? Again, I don't know for sure. Not trying to challenge anyone, just giving my 2 cents :smile: ... just repeating conversation that I had with John.
Vince, since you've been away for a while, you might not be aware that a physics professor/pool nut posts on here as Dr Dave. He has a website showing the mathematical proofs of cue ball squirt, amongst many other proofs. You can spend weeks continuously going through all the info on his site. Some is his own original work, some is from others interested in science, and some is from the discussions on this very forum.
Billiards.colostate.edu
Billiards.colostate.edu