Balance Rite Extension Defect 2015 *Video*

Cardigan Kid

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For the information of those who play with a Balance Rite cue extension, there has been some serious flaws coming from the factory recently.

Here is a video of the problem:

https://youtu.be/xQ7JQdt6vtU


I picked one up back in December from Seybert's and it plays excellent (the first Balance Rite I test in the video). In late June I ordered a back-up Balance Rite from Ozone Billiards and at first i thought my stroke was off because the shaft appeared to be veering off to the side.

When I sighted down the cue, I could clearly see the shaft at a slight angle coming off the butt of the cue at the extension joint. When I called Ozone and notified them of the problem, they said they haven't heard of any problems but were very nice and sent another one to me with a return label for the shipping - and the second one was even worse than the first one.

Just to make sure I wasn't seeing things, I took the batch to a local reputable cue maker and he hooked them into his lathe and immediately the wobble was clear and he determined the problem was that the connectors were not inserted dead center by the manufacturer.

He also had another Balance Rite from a local player with the same flaw of which couldn't be fixed because of the degree of off center. It was not known if this Balance Rite came from Ozone or not. But all three flawed extensions were with the Uni-Loc joints.

I returned both extensions back to Ozone for a refund, and they said they would look into the problem.

So just a heads up, these extensions may have had a bad run if anyone purchased one recently. I still think they work wonders for me personally and I continue to play with one - the straight one :rolleyes:

Best of luck.
 
B

BigBoof

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a friend who recently got one and it looks like your. Facing issue or something.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Cracktherack

Cracktherack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I purchased one about 6 months ago and it made the shaft wobble terrible. I sent it back and they tried a dozen extensions with the 5/16 x 14 thread on a new Schon and sent me the one with the least wobble. I've seen 4 or 5 that different guys bought and every one of them have a bad wobble.
I think any small defect in the extension is magnified at 29".
 
Cardigan Kid

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Earlier today, I wrote a detailed email to Cue and Case Manufacturing - the maker of the Balance Rite extension - regarding this problem, and invited them to join this thread with further details.

If anyone else has experienced this problem, let's hear about it.

I noticed that the Balance Rite is an advertiser on AZ Billiards, and any help with their product could circumvent other manufacturing or customer problems down the line.
 
macguy

macguy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cardigan Kid said:
For the information of those who play with a Balance Rite cue extension, there has been some serious flaws coming from the factory recently.

Here is a video of the problem:

https://youtu.be/xQ7JQdt6vtU


I picked one up back in December from Seybert's and it plays excellent (the first Balance Rite I test in the video). In late June I ordered a back-up Balance Rite from Ozone Billiards and at first i thought my stroke was off because the shaft appeared to be veering off to the side.

When I sighted down the cue, I could clearly see the shaft at a slight angle coming off the butt of the cue at the extension joint. When I called Ozone and notified them of the problem, they said they haven't heard of any problems but were very nice and sent another one to me with a return label for the shipping - and the second one was even worse than the first one.

Just to make sure I wasn't seeing things, I took the batch to a local reputable cue maker and he hooked them into his lathe and immediately the wobble was clear and he determined the problem was that the connectors were not inserted dead center by the manufacturer.

He also had another Balance Rite from a local player with the same flaw of which couldn't be fixed because of the degree of off center. It was not known if this Balance Rite came from Ozone or not. But all three flawed extensions were with the Uni-Loc joints.

I returned both extensions back to Ozone for a refund, and they said they would look into the problem.

So just a heads up, these extensions may have had a bad run if anyone purchased one recently. I still think they work wonders for me personally and I continue to play with one - the straight one :rolleyes:

Best of luck.
Click to expand...

I was making those over 20 years ago. I started making them when I saw a set that Ray Martin had in different lengths. I can tell you, if you are set up correctly to make them it should almost be impossible for that to happen.

I had a mandrel I used in the lathe to square up the ends and they
were always perfect. To be honest, I would like to see if they do the same thing on another cue.

Although from the video they do seem to be off by different amounts. that would lead me to believe it is the extensions and not the cue. Either way there is no excuse other then pool quality control. They should also be tested before being packaged so this can't happen.
 
Cardigan Kid

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
macguy said:
I was making those over 20 years ago. I started making them when I saw a set that Ray Martin had in different lengths. I can tell you, if you are set up correctly to make them it should almost be impossible for that to happen.

I had a mandrel I used in the lathe to square up the ends and they
were always perfect. To be honest, I would like to see if they do the same thing on another cue.

Although from the video they do seem to be off by different amounts. that would lead me to believe it is the extensions and not the cue. Either way there is no excuse other then pool quality control. They should also be tested before being packaged so this can't happen.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I was told by another cue maker - with the proper machinery, it should be impossible to get wrong.
For sake of the video I roll test the cue with just the shaft, then start with the good extension, and then the second and third are the flawed extensions.

And you are correct, when they were placed into a lathe via the female connection, they both had different degrees of wobble (at high speed it looks like a vibration). He had another from a local player and that was even worse than the two I received.

The kicker was that I called to Ozone and registered a complaint and they sent me one that was just as bad out of center.

CracktheRack, stated that they tested a dozen extensions before finding a decent one for him. Also, he had a problem with a different connector series. Until his input, I thought it was just the extensions with the uni loc connectors. But it looks like its more than just that.

The off center was so slight, it could barely be seen through a visual inspection. But when connected to the shaft, the problem is surely magnified.
 
Cardigan Kid

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Linda Stevens 1 day ago sent me this via YouTube....

" They aren't the only one. I know 4 or 5 guys that have them and they all show a significant wobble."
 
Cardigan Kid

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just had a phone conversation with Wes, the vice president of Cue and Case - the company who manufactures the Balance Rite.

He was not aware of any problems regarding a manufacturing defect with the Balance Rite extension and the connections being installed out of center.

This is the first they have heard of it.

I inquired into quality control, and he stated they do have a quality control process but it just falls to the visual inspection, and it is not inspected in terms of connecting the extension to the shaft and butt of a test cue.

He also stated that just because it roll tests and wobbles does not necessarily indicate that the extension is flawed, because some cue manufacturers also have their own standards in what is center. When applying something that is after market, sometimes the two do not want to fit together because of different aspects of the cue making process (such as facing issues on the shaft, which might not be faced off perfectly creating a lip).

I did invite him to this thread and to see the youtube video where I show the roll test on how the first balance Rite is perfect, but the next two are not acceptable. I also indicated that the flawed extensions were inspected by a reputable cue maker here and they, along with another he was given, were out of center when placed on a lathe. So this took out the question of the cue shaft or butt being the problem.

Wes and I also talked about how just because a cue doesn't pass the roll test doesn't mean it can't be played with and it might be more mental than anything in terms of playing. I described to him how I played with the first flawed extension, and it wasn't a problem pocketing balls in a half table range (playing on 9-foot gold crown) but when going long on stroke training drills, I was definitely off. When realizing there was a slant to the shaft, I would memorize where the angle pointed down (with the shaft logo at 3 o-clock position) and I would shoot with it at that position but it was still apparent that the shot was effected. Needless to say, I kept the straight extension and returned the two bad ones.


Wes, said that he will be looking into this directly and he has my email address and will get back to me regarding this issue and what he finds as a result.
 
molinatx4206

molinatx4206

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cardigan Kid said:
I just had a phone conversation with Wes, the vice president of Cue and Case - the company who manufactures the Balance Rite.

He was not aware of any problems regarding a manufacturing defect with the Balance Rite extension and the connections being installed out of center.

This is the first they have heard of it.

I inquired into quality control, and he stated they do have a quality control process but it just falls to the visual inspection, and it is not inspected in terms of connecting the extension to the shaft and butt of a test cue.

He also stated that just because it roll tests and wobbles does not necessarily indicate that the extension is flawed, because some cue manufacturers also have their own standards in what is center. When applying something that is after market, sometimes the two do not want to fit together because of different aspects of the cue making process (such as facing issues on the shaft, which might not be faced off perfectly creating a lip).

I did invite him to this thread and to see the youtube video where I show the roll test on how the first balance Rite is perfect, but the next two are not acceptable. I also indicated that the flawed extensions were inspected by a reputable cue maker here and they, along with another he was given, were out of center when placed on a lathe. So this took out the question of the cue shaft or butt being the problem.

Wes and I also talked about how just because a cue doesn't pass the roll test doesn't mean it can't be played with and it might be more mental than anything in terms of playing. I described to him how I played with the first flawed extension, and it wasn't a problem pocketing balls in a half table range (playing on 9-foot gold crown) but when going long on stroke training drills, I was definitely off. When realizing there was a slant to the shaft, I would memorize where the angle pointed down (with the shaft logo at 3 o-clock position) and I would shoot with it at that position but it was still apparent that the shot was effected. Needless to say, I kept the straight extension and returned the two bad ones.


Wes, said that he will be looking into this directly and he has my email address and will get back to me regarding this issue and what he finds as a result.
Click to expand...

I'm vey curious how this turns out. Great job!
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Cardigan Kid said:
That's exactly what I was told by another cue maker - with the proper machinery, it should be impossible to get wrong.
For sake of the video I roll test the cue with just the shaft, then start with the good extension, and then the second and third are the flawed extensions.

And you are correct, when they were placed into a lathe via the female connection, they both had different degrees of wobble (at high speed it looks like a vibration). He had another from a local player and that was even worse than the two I received.

The kicker was that I called to Ozone and registered a complaint and they sent me one that was just as bad out of center.

CracktheRack, stated that they tested a dozen extensions before finding a decent one for him. Also, he had a problem with a different connector series. Until his input, I thought it was just the extensions with the uni loc connectors. But it looks like its more than just that.

The off center was so slight, it could barely be seen through a visual inspection. But when connected to the shaft, the problem is surely magnified.
Click to expand...
I don't think you'll get that much wobble from the center not being right. I think at least one face is not perpendicular to the axis. It's possible for a cue to have both faces tilted but roll straight if the phases of the tilts match. This seems pretty unlikely.
 
Cardigan Kid

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bob Jewett said:
I don't think you'll get that much wobble from the center not being right. I think at least one face is not perpendicular to the axis. It's possible for a cue to have both faces tilted but roll straight if the phases of the tilts match. This seems pretty unlikely.
Click to expand...

Dan Dishaw and I had access to 4 balance rite extensions. I regret not taking video at his shop when he connected them each to a lathe, three showing signs of vibration/wobble, one reading perfect (which was the one I kept).

In my video, the roll test was just to show the degree of angle the shaft veered off at with two of the unacceptable ones.

Were there any other tests I could have done on video to demonstrate the problem?

Would you agree, Mr.Jewitt, that such an off angle would effect play? I felt myself trying to convince Wes that it is not just a mental problem but one that was actually effecting the shot when testing from long distances. The effects were less noticeable with half table shots and a shorter bridge. It seemed he was trying to say an after market part will never fit absolutely perfect. But I have one that fits and performs about as perfect as one could expect and far better than the others.

So the conclusion has to be a problem on the manufacturing side, correct?
 
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Its definitely a process problem, not an inspection problem. Whatever their method and order of machining this extension is, it is flawed. That's why so many of them are coming back as causing wobble.
 
O

overlord

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I got one and it made my cue wobble like crazy. The facings must be off very bad and I quit using it as I did not want to damage the cue.
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Cardigan Kid said:
Dan Dishaw and I had access to 4 balance rite extensions. I regret not taking video at his shop when he connected them each to a lathe, three showing signs of vibration/wobble, one reading perfect (which was the one I kept).

In my video, the roll test was just to show the degree of angle the shaft veered off at with two of the unacceptable ones.

Were there any other tests I could have done on video to demonstrate the problem?

Would you agree, Mr.Jewitt, that such an off angle would effect play? I felt myself trying to convince Wes that it is not just a mental problem but one that was actually effecting the shot when testing from long distances. The effects were less noticeable with half table shots and a shorter bridge. It seemed he was trying to say an after market part will never fit absolutely perfect. But I have one that fits and performs about as perfect as one could expect and far better than the others.

So the conclusion has to be a problem on the manufacturing side, correct?
Click to expand...
A standard way of dealing with a dog-legged cue stick is mentioned above -- note which way to turn it so it sags down and then it will look straight. Knowing the crookedness is there may rot your confidence, but unless it is real bad I don't think it will actually affect shots. If you rotate the cue as part of your warmups or stroke, there may still be a problem. Some people mark their ferrules and always play with the same side up.

If the cue has its joint faces properly perpendicular to the axis of the cue, I think the only way to end up with a wobble is if the extension is made wrong.

Did you understand the possibility I mentioned above? If the faces of the cue's joint are not perpendicular to the axis, the cue might still roll straight but it would be hard to find an extender that works. I'm not saying that this is the problem -- I think it's very unlikely. But it's not impossible.

I would think that most repairmen could true the faces of the extender but it better be mounted correctly in the lathe or they might just make it worse.
 
Cardigan Kid

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bob Jewett said:
A standard way of dealing with a dog-legged cue stick is mentioned above -- note which way to turn it so it sags down and then it will look straight. Knowing the crookedness is there may rot your confidence, but unless it is real bad I don't think it will actually affect shots. If you rotate the cue as part of your warmups or stroke, there may still be a problem. Some people mark their ferrules and always play with the same side up.

If the cue has its joint faces properly perpendicular to the axis of the cue, I think the only way to end up with a wobble is if the extension is made wrong.

Did you understand the possibility I mentioned above? If the faces of the cue's joint are not perpendicular to the axis, the cue might still roll straight but it would be hard to find an extender that works. I'm not saying that this is the problem -- I think it's very unlikely. But it's not impossible.

I would think that most repairmen could true the faces of the extender but it better be mounted correctly in the lathe or they might just make it worse.
Click to expand...

Yes, sir. I absolutely understand the possibility of the faces not being perpendicular, and the possibility of opposite faces matching up. Not impossible at all.

Thank you very much for your response. All great information and much appreciated.

I do hope Cue and Case gets back to me in regards to their investigation, because it seems this is a bigger problem than they knew about and most players might have ditched the extension and never filed a complaint.

I recall a recent thread asking if the between butt and shaft cue extensions were a fad that died out because most pros stopped using them. Was it the shaft wobble that caused done of them to stop using it?
The last time I saw Karen Corr play she was still using one. Maybe I will ask her about it at the upcoming Turning Stone Classic.
 
macguy

macguy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bob Jewett said:
A standard way of dealing with a dog-legged cue stick is mentioned above -- note which way to turn it so it sags down and then it will look straight. Knowing the crookedness is there may rot your confidence, but unless it is real bad I don't think it will actually affect shots. If you rotate the cue as part of your warmups or stroke, there may still be a problem. Some people mark their ferrules and always play with the same side up.

If the cue has its joint faces properly perpendicular to the axis of the cue, I think the only way to end up with a wobble is if the extension is made wrong.

Did you understand the possibility I mentioned above? If the faces of the cue's joint are not perpendicular to the axis, the cue might still roll straight but it would be hard to find an extender that works. I'm not saying that this is the problem -- I think it's very unlikely. But it's not impossible.

I would think that most repairmen could true the faces of the extender but it better be mounted correctly in the lathe or they might just make it worse.
Click to expand...
With all due respect, and I say that in the greatest sense of the word. You are one of the most respected people who post on here. Building those extensions is machining 101.

It would be the kind of project for someone who just got a lathe and was running it for the first time and they would probably make it perfect.
You are being too kind to the manufacture and giving them a pass.

There is no reason to be selling a product with such poor quality control. Like I said in my other post, these should be tested before they are shipped.
One of the main reasons is they are sold by retailers.

When you ship screwed up products to a retailer and they in turn now sell them to the public. The retailer is the one on the hook in both cost and reputation.

There can't be so much profit or demand they they can't do without carrying a product so poorly made. If I was the retailer, I would stop carrying them. You want to sell quality products you can stand behind and not have to apologize for.
 
Wedge

Wedge

WO Wedge Lock
Silver Member
Karen Corr

Cardigan Kid said:
Yes, sir. I absolutely understand the possibility of the faces not being perpendicular, and the possibility of opposite faces matching up. Not impossible at all.

Thank you very much for your response. All great information and much appreciated.

I do hope Cue and Case gets back to me in regards to their investigation, because it seems this is a bigger problem than they knew about and most players might have ditched the extension and never filed a complaint.

I recall a recent thread asking if the between butt and shaft cue extensions were a fad that died out because most pros stopped using them. Was it the shaft wobble that caused done of them to stop using it?
The last time I saw Karen Corr play she was still using one. Maybe I will ask her about it at the upcoming Turning Stone Classic.
Click to expand...

Karen uses a 2 1/2" extension made by AZ's newsherrifintown.
 
Cardigan Kid

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
macguy said:
With all due respect, and I say that in the greatest sense of the word. You are one of the most respected people who post on here. Building those extensions is machining 101.

It would be the kind of project for someone who just got a lathe and was running it for the first time and they would probably make it perfect.
You are being too kind to the manufacture and giving them a pass.

There is no reason to be selling a product with such poor quality control. Like I said in my other post, these should be tested before they are shipped.
One of the main reasons is they are sold by retailers.

When you ship screwed up products to a retailer and they in turn now sell them to the public. The retailer is the one on the hook in both cost and reputation.

There can't be so much profit or demand they they can't do without carrying a product so poorly made. If I was the retailer, I would stop carrying them. You want to sell quality products you can stand behind and not have to apologize for.
Click to expand...

Macguy, thank you for your input on this thread. In my phone conversation with Wes, the vice president of Cue and Case, I referenced your input in regards to quality control. I was somewhat concerned to where he took the conversation in regards to the manufacturing aspect.

He brought up an example of a batch of Lucasi cues that had the weight bolt drilled out of center, and even though the wobbled on a table roll, they were still straight as an arrow-it was a visual trick because when laid on a table there was an offcenter weight at the butt. They eventually corrected the problem. But his main point was just because something wobbles doesn't mean it's not playable or the extensions fault.

it seemed he was trying to chalk it up to after market parts will never perfectly fit.

Keep in mind, our conversation was before he even saw the YouTube video above, read this thread, so he was just spit-balling thoughts on what the real problem could be. Then we went on to discuss that just because the cue has a wobble with the insert installed doesn't mean it can't be played with.

My ultimate concern was he never really asked to see the video or a link to this thread.
I did pass on my order information from ozone so he could track down the faulty extensions which I returned and my email. So I'm still optimistic they will look into this and actually see a problem and get back to me so I could post it here (I invited him to come onto this thread and engage in the discussion as well).

So with your experience, can you say, it should be more than reasonable to expect a perfect roll and straight cue when sited by installing an after market extension? I tried to keep pushing through my main point, that I love the Balance Rite, and I have a perfect one, so at some point they did make it correctly.
 
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