Ko vs Shane--Natural Progression of the Sport: The Pool Coach

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ko vs Shane Finals
Natural Progression of the Sport: The Traveling Pro Pool Coach


Part 1:


“When I was in 6th grade in elementary school I started to play pool in my father's pool club. Since I first played pool, my father has always been my coach,” said Ko.

“He always accompanies me on my travels. I’ve learnt a lot from him, not only pool skill, but also the manner of being polite.” In common with many other top-class Taiwanese shooters, practice is a serious business with long hours put in using often repetitious drills until the confidence of solid technique is built.


Source: http://blog.xuite.net/stradivarius/blog/17090833-Just+who+is+Ko+Pin-yi+?

This is not a critique of Shane or Ko, but more of an observation and deeper analysis into the finals match from yesterday.

Over the last 10 years, I’ve kept notice of a trend, or more so, a common fabric between many young champion players from Asia and Europe in the sport of pocket billiards.

In the formative years in Europe and most of Asia, a young pool player will take up with a coach and begin instruction. Thorsten Hohmann discussed this in the 2008 14.1 Invitational player-review DVD of his 149 ball run. Thorsten discussed with Danny Di LiBerto that he still has the same coach today as the guy who first opened up the door to the local billiard club to let him inside. Thorsten's work on the PAT training regiment with German coaches Ralph Eckert and Andreas Huber is well documented.

In the summer of 2007, at the Turning Stone classic, I was able to sit with Michael Neumann, the trainer and coach of Jasmine Ouschan and discuss his role in her career development. I watched as he sat in the stands and took notes, as well as photographs on the tough spots in matches and what little changes she could make. At one point in the tournament, Jasmine was frustrated with her 9-ball break not producing results, and Neumann was table side with instruction on changing it up. Between matches, he was even there with electrolyte packs for her, like holding out the cup of water for the marathon runner as they pass mile marker 15.

In the words of Mike Neumann:

Now, after working very intensively for more than 15 years with Jasmin Ouschan my fields of duty have broadened. Rather than being a single trainer I am currently responsible for the management of her career and for her coaching, as her training is now largely complete

Meanwhile, Jasmin is a very successful professional sports athlete and we are travelling more than 200 days per year worldwide together to be a part of events and tournaments.


Source: http://www.billiardsportacademy.com/michael-neumann/#go_page_now

Niels Feijen’s career was greatly effected by the coaching of Johan Ruijsink – the non-playing captain and coach of Europe’s Mosconi Cup Team.

Niels wrote in his website biography:

The gambling life took it's toll again once when I came back home. I got depressed again and had no motivation in Holland. I started with personal trainings to talk about what was bothering me and this really helped me. I started to relax more in any location and I became a better tournament player.

Johan Ruysink also opened up a poolroom in a city near by called Leidschendam and he did a lot for me by sponsoring me there!!


Source: http://www.nielsfeijen.nl/content.php?id=2

Ralf Souquet would refer to Johan as “The best coach ever”.

American player and Master Instructor Bert Kinister, who also worked with Niels in America, wrote about Johan:

Finally on the road to Johan’s home, night club and pool room in The Hague, we coasted in under cover of darkness with no brakes, no gas, no sleep and there they were waiting—I do not know for how long—eight to 12 young men acting like a drill team, waiting to learn pool.

Johan was ex-Dutch Special Forces, an expert in discipline and teamwork. This explained all of the eager teenagers waiting for us in the middle of the night, and Johan’s tireless work ethic.


Source: https://www.sneakypetemafia.com/the-value-of-a-coach-bert-kinister/

The list could go on and on. From John Morra and his coach/father Mario Morra in Canada to Jennifer Beretta and her personal billiards coach, Stu (our very own SJM-who she has worked with weekly for over a decade on her game).

From my observations, it seems for the most part, American and Filipino players are more solitary in nature, as is the pool culture. In America, pool players will take one-off lessons from various coaches, sometimes hopping from one coach to another to get proper analysis of their game. But then it is back off to the pool hall by themselves, and in tournament play, they become their own coach.

Yes, unless there are unlimited funds or a billiard academy down the street, all good players have to eventually become their own coach in a way. But with the Americans and Filipino players, the solitary pool warrior is usually the status quo.

This is how our pool culture always was though. Luther Lassiter didn’t have a coach by his side and neither did Efren Reyes. Their early careers and instruction were centered on gambling and action games.

But the game of pocket billiards has been progressing towards a sport for many years now. The players are becoming more athletic, focusing on physical workouts as much as drills on the table. And other countries are following suit:

Years of hard work among the grass-roots of Taiwanese pool established a system that saw the game find its way into high school educational programmes and with it government funding.

That structure paid dividends in 2005 when 18-year-old Wu Chia-ching (left) became the second Taiwanese player to win the World 9 Ball when he beat countryman Kuo Po-cheng in a thrilling final in Kaohsiung.


Source: http://blog.xuite.net/stradivarius/blog/17090833-Just+who+is+Ko+Pin-yi+?

Niels Feijen, on his early years in the sport, writes:

A big thing also happened in Holland: The Olympic Commitee gave pool the highest status. This meant that if players reached the quarterfinal in the European or World Championships, they got their A-Status which meant a monthly income through pool!!

Source: http://www.nielsfeijen.nl/content.php?id=2

And with those government funds, a professional billiard coach follows.
 

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Part 2

Part 2:

So this brings us down to Ko vs Shane in the 2015 World 9-ball Championship final.

As we all saw the nerves were fierce, and the tension was insurmountable by human standards. At this level of performance there are two games being played:

Every game is composed of two parts, an outer game and an inner game.

Harmony between the two exists when this mind is quiet and focused. Only then can peak performance be reached.

When we unlearn how to be judgmental, it is possible to achieve spontaneous, focused play. Judgement results in tightness, and tightness interferes with the fluidity required for accurate movement. Relaxation produces smooth strokes and results from accepting your strokes as they are.


Source: The Inner Game of Tennis by W. Timothy Gallwey pages 1,14,17,and 21

From what I observed, Ko Pin Yi’s coaching (by his traveling coach/father) played an enormous part in the victory yesterday. By playing standards, Shane and Ko were neck and neck until the 1 hour 18 minute point. Sure Ko benefited from good fortune at the table up until this point, and Shane was playing with confidence (after a break in the stream) the score was tied 8-8.

Here is where the war for the inner game – the mental game really went into over-drive – with Ko scratching on a standard 8-ball and giving Shane a huge point to go up 9-8 with his break next.
https://youtu.be/TxEv-fhVDgM?t=1h18m48s

We can see Ko go to his seat with defeated body language, hand over his face-judgement is clearly in his mind, as Shane sets up ball-in-hand and makes the 9.



Then in the very next rack, https://youtu.be/TxEv-fhVDgM?t=1h20m57s Ko, appears confused and indecisive. Giving the shot back to Shane, his eyes are down and leaning forward in his chair…



Shane has a mental edge at this point, he gets out of his chair with confidence and sizes up the shot – even while eyeing up the shot, his posture is strong. He is more at ease than Ko as he measures out the kick. A very nice kick safe is the result. Ko then sells out with a good kick hit on the one, but leaving wide open table for Shane.

Then comes the missed position heard around the world, as Shane snookers himself behind the 8-ball (literally) and can’t see the seven. https://youtu.be/TxEv-fhVDgM?t=1h27m13s



This leads to a failed jump shot, and Shane is sent to his seat. Now with clenched jaw and clear judgement inside. Shane is not at ease, and no human would be in such a turn of events. Ko, still visibly shaken from the earlier rack gets up and runs the balls out to make the score 9-9.

Now, the referee appears to call for a timeout, probably for the advertising obligations, and this becomes a major turning point and explains the value of coaching. Genipool14 has edited out the break (the full break can be seen if you log back in at http://live.qbsf.qa/en/qbsf )



Shane could be seen back to his seat first after one minute – and sat alone for almost 2 minutes. The commentators discuss that Ko met with his brother in the men’s room to discuss strategy and relax for a few minutes. No doubt, with his father/coach there, words of wisdom were passed (we can only assume Ko’s father was present since we have no verification to source other than Ko's words sourced earlier that his father travels with him everywhere).

Now look at the body language in the very next rack. https://youtu.be/TxEv-fhVDgM?t=1h31m35s Shane appears impatient and on edge:



Ko makes another error and plays position short, snookering himself behind the 7-ball, he makes a kick and gets a fortunate double kiss which leaves Shane a jump shot. This time Ko looks loose and smiling at the good fortune but appears more focused. Even at one point gathering himself in a meditative state, appearing relaxed and breathing deeply.



On Shane’s failed jump shot, leaving a cross-side bank, Ko is out of his chair and in full composure to make the bank and run out.



From this point, the mental game appeared to be won by Ko. Even though Ko would make mistakes (like a missed 4-ball when score was 10-9), his composure and form appeared unshaken. The announcers began to discuss and observe Shane’s body language in route to the victory by Ko.



This is by no means advice to Shane, but just my observations in how external coaching and having someone there to ping thoughts off of is an edge in a sport that is full of players looking for that slightest of edges to gain a victory over their opponent. Shane is one of the more mentally resilient players to ever play the game, with his pressure performances and solitary training regiments. In this instance, it appears the player with external coaching was able to bridge the canyon of nerves and uncertainty which the finals in the world 9-ball championship will bring.

As a human being, psychologically it is extremely hard to be a self-coach when you are under pressure. This is why golfers have their caddie to discuss strategy. Look none further than young US pro golfer Jordan Spieth and his relationship with his caddie. They are in the tournament together and win it together. In an article about Spieth’s caddie, Michael Greller:

The reason Greller has latched on with golf’s biggest rising star has little to do with measuring yardages or memorizing breaks on a green. It is because of moments like this: When Spieth double-bogeyed the 17th hole Saturday, Greller didn’t say much as they walked to the 18th tee box. He mostly just listened.

“You don’t want to overanalyze or make it harder than it is,” Greller said. “I just try to be a calming influence on him. He’s very intense.”


Source: http://www.wsj.com/articles/why-mas...former-schoolteacher-as-his-caddie-1428881077

Would the World 9-ball Championship finals have had a different outcome if Shane Van Boening had a Michael Greller there to listen? We will never know.

I see the younger pool generation approaching pool as a sport, and like any other sport, a coach is a necessity, and those than have one, will have an edge over the player who doesn’t.

In closing, I truly believe the sport of pool to be naturally progressing to a level that we have never seen before—an Olympic-caliber sporting event, where the top young players will be invested with a coach from a younger age and that will take them into the professional ranks with the tools to dominate. The era of the romantic lone warrior pool player is on the decline.

The days of a young Earl and Efren learning their master craft on the gambling tables just aren’t going to be enough anymore.

The Ko brothers represent the bar which has risen in recent years not just by them, but all the players that have a traveling coach or followed their coaches advice from afar. Pool is a team sport – even if you are just a team of one, you still need a coach. In the years to follow, it will become more of a necessity and less of a luxury.
 
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JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
• Instruction • Coaching

CARDIGAN KID:

I LOVE WHAT YOU WROTE AND AGREE WITH IT.

Very recently, with one of my students, I actually discussed that pool instruction is not enough, especially after a player has seemingly mastered has a solid set of fundamentals and the ability to perform all of the shots with needed shape. After that, the player is need of a coach. I have often thought that I would take the time to coach a pool leagues team but the stars haven't aligned themselves for that and so I think too about coaching individuals. Just two days ago, a very good, local player asked me for pool lessons and I told him that I could help teach him some things that he might not know but that what he most likely needs is coaching. Instruction and coaching are tied together but are different and one comes after the other. The latter is mostly trying to keep the athlete balanced and centered.

I believe that I would enjoy coaching even more than instruction but coaching takes much more time and travel which means more expenses and that too is a problem.

Thanks for posting this. I believe you are spot on.

JoeyA
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
There is nothing wrong with Shane or his game! Whatever he's doing is working just fine!
 

King T

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Its a great idea no matter what,

There is nothing wrong with Shane or his game! Whatever he's doing is working just fine!

I don't think theres anything wrong with Shane or his game, he is a Champion. Shane is also a class act.

I think the point of the post or my take away is that Pool in our country needs a better foundation. I hope that more players in this country step up to Shane's level of commitment rather coaching or partnering is the key?

Bergman, Hall and Skylar seem to be close, clearly Chip and Joey are, these typ of partnerships that aren't rivalry based could be the key to elevating the USA's Pool of players.

Nothing like have a crew/buddy that can really play pushing you to elevate.
 

SouthernDraw

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Shane had a coach all last year. I believe he's shooting better this year.

I do agree that having a full time coach would help in some respects. But not possible in US. And just not good for gambling. It would breed weakness. Not to mention, cut into winnings.
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Very Good Post Kid. :thumbup2:

Can you PM it to a few in that other thread?

You spend all of that time & effort to differentiate between the inner & outer game & immediately some come out to say that Shane's 'game is fine'.

If his whole entire game both inner & outer is that 'fine' then why did he lose an all important title to what many might say is a lesser player?

I know, Crap Happens. Well maybe with a coach, like a caddie, crap will happen less often.

Again, Good Post. :thumbup2:
 

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
I'm POSITIVE, that the point of this thread has a lot more to do with American pool needing more coaching than what's wrong with Shane's game. The best golfers in the world have coaches as the author suggested.

Shane played at a level during the tournament that has not been seen before in my opinion.

The TV table played differently and almost always does. Shane had some experience in playing on the tv table, and a coach wouldn't have hurt if only to be a listener to the player.

Shane was the most composed that I have ever seen him, throughout the tournament, better composed than even Ko Pin Yi. But that's enough on that tangent. Ko's great. Shane's great. Coaching in American pool is SORELY NEEDED.

JoeyA

There is nothing wrong with Shane or his game! Whatever he's doing is working just fine!
 

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm POSITIVE, that the point of this thread has a lot more to do with American pool needing more coaching than what's wrong with Shane's game. The best golfers in the world have coaches as the author suggested.

Shane played at a level during the tournament that has not been seen before in my opinion.

The TV table played differently and almost always does. Shane had some experience in playing on the tv table, and a coach wouldn't have hurt if only to be a listener to the player.

Shane was the most composed that I have ever seen him, throughout the tournament, better composed than even Ko Pin Yi. But that's enough on that tangent. Ko's great. Shane's great. Coaching in American pool is SORELY NEEDED.

JoeyA

Thanks for the kind words, JoeyA and to those that have green rep'd this article - I appreciate your time in reading it.
Yes, coaching in American pool is sorely needed, not just in professional pool, but in our pool culture as well.

Why does a player having a coach appear as a weakness (or breed weakness as Southern Draw puts it) in American pool culture? Southern Draw is right in his observation because THAT is exactly how a player being coached is viewed - when in Europe, it is a necessity and just a given in how you approach the sport.

This is my take from attending many tournaments and observing professional players from all over the world, in how they handle situations. But also from observing amateur pool players in local pool halls around the country. I have even been guilty of the mindset that I don't need lessons, I just have to work harder and commit more time to the game, hit a million balls, etc. But after getting lessons from a professional coach, my understanding of the sport reached another level.

I've seen American amateur players state they would like lessons, but they don't want to change their stroke, and they don't want to learn a new aiming system, etc. There's always a bit of resistance in the approach. But as I pointed out in the original post, Bert Kinister (no lightweight instructor himself having seen thousands of American players) observed, with amazement, a dozen young men in the Netherlands waiting in the middle of the night for Johan Ruijsink to open his pool hall to instruction and coaching.

There is definitely two different mindsets to the coaching approach in Europe/Asian pool and American pool.

Mark Wilson touched on it very well in his interview with Tor Lowry.
Mark Wilson criticizes the American pool culture in how it differs from the European approach to the game - the respect for the sport aspect. Wilson goes on to explain that today's American pool players never had that type of leadership and have always just followed those that have come before them for 40 years - and it isn't paying off.

You can watch the interview here: https://youtu.be/0DYZ_NVpeXc

Now the interview is around the Mosconi Cup team - but the talk of a player individually is extremely important on how they approach the game.

Now let's bring this back to Shane....

Jay Helfert is right, there is nothing wrong with Shane's game That is not the point of this article. In those final three matches at the World 9 ball championships, Shane played out of this world. He is top notch, both physically and mentally.

Is it too unreasonable to say that Ko had an edge with a support network (his coach and father, his brother) in attendance?
I wanted to show that there was a physical moment where the game altered, and it was directly do to that break and how both players handled themselves in that time-out.

I don't think we could argue that Shane has hit way more balls than Ko - his training and pedigree is of the highest caliber that one could reach in this sport. Yes, it is understood that Shane has worked with coaches from all over, from Lee Brett to Mark Wilson. So we know he is not shy about seeking out instruction to form his game. In that respect, Shane should be viewed as a remarkable player for winning world pool masters and US Opens without a coach in his corner. That's like a PGA golfer winning a major without a caddie. But that is always how it's been with the American players (and also Filipino players for the most part).

I just believe that the natural progression of the sport is to have a full-time or regular coach, who has a working relationship with the player, and becomes a corner-man at the larger world caliber tournaments. Whether you agree or not, it is still an edge - just like studying the gaps in the rack and mastering the break. Today and into the future the physical skill is so high and the matches will be so close - that any edge is crucial.
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... Shane played at a level during the tournament that has not been seen before in my opinion. ...

I watched 7 of Shane's 8 matches in the tournament (all but Diaz-Pizarro). I'd rate his play as subpar (for him) all the way through the second game of his match (the 4th of his matches that I watched, his 5th in the event) with Yu-Lung Chang. Shane missed 4 shots in the first 2 games of that match!. But then, for the remainder of the Yu-Lung match Shane played pretty well while also benefiting greatly from inferior (for him) play from Chang. So my expectations for Shane for the Orcollo match were not sky high. And then he just played super against both Orcollo and P-C Ko. Truly a fickle game
 

rhatten

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'd rate the game Structure 'subpar'. 9 ball... not a great measure of one measurable Pool Skills. It's better measure of what 'luck' can do to a lifetime career. Fix the REAL Problem... the game.

Randy
 

tc in l a

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Very thoughtful post Kid

Although I started playing pool before I ever played a game of tennis I ended up spending much more time on the tennis courts.

I see many similarities in the two games, with tennis now allowing coaching in some tournaments.

I also thought the Shane-Ko match was very much like a tennis match between two equally matched and talented players, both holding serve with one player finally breaking the other's serve (whether by luck, skill or mental toughness).

We all hope that someday pool will develop into an equally recognized sport but at this time it is decades behind. I know I'll never see it but hope my cues live on to see it, even if they become equivalent to the old Stan Smith wooden racket I was so proud to buy back in the early 70's.

Best to you all and try to be civil to each other, even if we're posting somewhat anonymously in the internet.

Tony C
 
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Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Very thoughtful post Kid

Although I started playing pool before I ever played a game of tennis I ended up spending much more time on the tennis courts.

I see many similarities in the two games, with tennis now allowing coaching in some tournaments.

I also thought the Shane-Ko match was very much like a tennis match between two equally matched and talented players, both holding serve with one player finally breaking the other's serve (whether by luck, skill or mental toughness).

We all hope that someday pool will develop into an equally recognized sport but at this time it is decades behind. I know I'll never see it but hope my cues live on to see it, even if they become equivalent to the old Stan Smith wooden racket I was so proud to buy back in the early 70's.

Best to you all and try to be civil to each other, even if we're posting somewhat anonymously in the internet.

Tony C

Yes, sir - the tennis parallels are right on.
I was recommended the book "Inner Game of Tennis" (which I quoted from in the earlier post) as to helping with the mental side of the pool. So I purchased a copy and went through it with a highlighter - there are moments that it speaks to the pool player (maybe even more so than the tennis player).

The kicker is in Tennis, you only have a short time to dwell on an error and then you are right back at it with the next serve. In pool, you can be in your chair for what seems like an eternity watching your opponent while pondering the error you just made.

So controlling your emotional judgement of ones self is far more important and harder to do.

I believe if you look at pool from the international vantage point - how billiard clubs are thriving in other countries and the junior levels are becoming more and more involved - not just your cues, but you as well, will see the sport reach the level it deserves.

Thanks for the post
 

CoreyD

Baller, Shot Caller
Amazing post, Kid. Your observations are certainly against the grain of the older/conservative players in this community, but strike a special chord with players like me who are open-minded and always look to improve their game. I've always tried to stay as solitary as possible during tournaments, and I now realize it may have faulted me.

I can't think of a single sport (especially individually-played sports) where a dedicated coach isn't implemented. This philosophy should definitely be explored in a country that has for the last decade struggled to keep up with the international talent.
 

bobprobst

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Terrific observations and I think you are absolutely correct on your assessments. There is a cultural difference in the US - where using a rest is considered a "crutch" - that is not present in other cultures.

I was in Vegas this August for the APA Nationals and couldn't help but note that the teams that advanced made excellent use of their coaches. Coaches knew their players and called timeouts at appropriate times - and players also knew when to call for timeouts before they got in trouble instead of taking a risky shot and blowing position. In my area, many players ask not to be given timeouts! All this really has to change if US players are going to remain competitive on the world scene.
 

Colin Colenso

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good work putting all that together Cardigan Kid!

I agree Shane dropped his shoulders toward the end. A good mentor may have helped, a bad one may have made things worse.
 

HelloBaby-

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There is nothing wrong with Shane or his game! Whatever he's doing is working just fine!

There is no right or wrong. But a coach will definitely make Shane a better player. But I agree that Shane will not have any, he is a lonewolf.

A companion will work,too, just not as good.

In my own experience,

I am sure that anybody ever play tournament has been through a moment of "I-am-in-deep-sh*t", and it helped hell a lot when you saw a familiar supportive face in the crowd rooting for you. NOBODY, NOBODY is better alone is these tough moments, who said so just simple never experience what it's like to have supporters.

The level of helpfulness jump goes exponentielle if that person is your coach and that you can take a timeout, talk with him knowing everything gonna be ok.

Roger Federer once fired his coach and went lonewolf (with his wife) for a while. I am sure nothing wrong with him or his game. But soon later he realized that he needed one, and he has always had one since. The best tennis player of all time tried without coach and failed, that shows how important and irreplaceable a coach is.
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There is no right or wrong. But a coach will definitely make Shane a better player. But I agree that Shane will not have any, he is a lonewolf.

A companion will work,too, just not as good.

In my own experience,

I am sure that anybody ever play tournament has been through a moment of "I-am-in-deep-sh*t", and it helped hell a lot when you saw a familiar supportive face in the crowd rooting for you. NOBODY, NOBODY is better alone is these tough moments, who said so just simple never experience what it's like to have supporters.

The level of helpfulness jump goes exponentielle if that person is your coach and that you can take a timeout, talk with him knowing everything gonna be ok.

Roger Federer once fired his coach and went lonewolf (with his wife) for a while. I am sure nothing wrong with him or his game. But soon later he realized that he needed one, and he has always had one since. The best tennis player of all time tried without coach and failed, that shows how important and irreplaceable a coach is.

A coach / instructor would help any player providing if used long term such as the players mentioned ,, also Sports Shrinks are widely used in tennis and golf , and some big of the big sports also ,, ,Ronnie O thanked his Shrink in the speech after his last world title

I saw one few yrs back trying to work on my life concentration laps and it was the best 300 I ever spent on pool ,, my game rose instantly

You can read books such as the one Kid mentioned I have read others ,, no way is it the same thing , having a professional to work with is far better ,, I can name several who would benefit from one ,, starting with Earl

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