Speed Control Tip
- Thread starter DrCue'sProtege
- Start date
Well now you've done it Mike...so I'll have to "out" you here, even though most regular posters already know what a nit you are. I came to you in S. IN because I felt sorry for you, as you had not made any progress, even though you had worked with a few other prominent instructors. You wanted a ONE HOUR lesson, because you're cheap! I stayed with you for SIX hours (charging you for only 2), and gave you only the first 5 mother drills, because you had problems even doing those.
In the time I spent with you I came to understand why you cannot progress (and 15 years later you still haven't progressed much, if any). You refuse to practice with any kind of disciplined practice regimen, like I showed you. You expected to take a lesson and get immediate results...even though everyone on the board that you complained to told you it takes time. Second, you refuse to drive anywhere to play anyone, even the guys local to you that I had worked with, who were willing to come play you. You don't play leagues, you don't play tournaments, and you don't gamble...all things that can help a player to improve. It wasn't until I met up with your brother that I got the whole story of how wacky you are. He, on the other hand, has had several lessons with me (along with a few others), and improved significantly with each lesson. Why?...because he listened to what I told him...and then FOLLOWED DIRECTIONS! He knows how instruction works, and figured out how to make it work for him.
I've said this to many students over the years...you can be champion of the world in your garage or basement...but you have to get out and see how you match up against the rest of the world. That's what counts. I just don't see you EVER doing that...and therein lies the problem. :angry:
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
In the time I spent with you I came to understand why you cannot progress (and 15 years later you still haven't progressed much, if any). You refuse to practice with any kind of disciplined practice regimen, like I showed you. You expected to take a lesson and get immediate results...even though everyone on the board that you complained to told you it takes time. Second, you refuse to drive anywhere to play anyone, even the guys local to you that I had worked with, who were willing to come play you. You don't play leagues, you don't play tournaments, and you don't gamble...all things that can help a player to improve. It wasn't until I met up with your brother that I got the whole story of how wacky you are. He, on the other hand, has had several lessons with me (along with a few others), and improved significantly with each lesson. Why?...because he listened to what I told him...and then FOLLOWED DIRECTIONS! He knows how instruction works, and figured out how to make it work for him.
I've said this to many students over the years...you can be champion of the world in your garage or basement...but you have to get out and see how you match up against the rest of the world. That's what counts. I just don't see you EVER doing that...and therein lies the problem. :angry:
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Electech...SOP means standard operating procedure...or what we do for 95%+ of the shots we shoot in a normal game situation. Not shots where CB & OB are a couple inches apart; or shooting over another ball; or frozen to the rail with the CB. These shots occur, but they are in the minority. Shoot most shots with the same procedure, and you'll accomplish a lot!
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
These are the tips that come to my mind. The theme is that not needing precise speed control comes before achieving precise speed control in terms of priority for developing my game.
1) Practice shots you miss until you can execute them with finesse. If confidence goes, finesse goes, and thus speed control goes.
2) Think patterns through so that you don’t need precise speed control. Play shape into (and along) the position area rather than across it.
3) Try not to be too perfect. Playing a longer shot (or generally favoring center-table) lets you get away with being less precise.
4) Get your stroke consistent enough with finesse, smooth pull back and smooth follow through that you can rely on bridge length and follow-through length to vary speed rather than more/less muscle.
5) Move the ball less if possible. Getting good at pocket speed (and slightly more/less) means you become more familiar with small variances in speed. Trying to be precise across a wider range of distances is a bigger challenge.
6) Never underestimate how much spin off a rail can accelerate or kill cue ball speed. Perhaps consider the shot with no side spin and more varying degrees of straight top/center/low.
7) Shoot some ball pocketing drills with and without spin where you need to get the cue ball to a specific location. Repeat until you’re more consistent than when you started.
1) Practice shots you miss until you can execute them with finesse. If confidence goes, finesse goes, and thus speed control goes.
2) Think patterns through so that you don’t need precise speed control. Play shape into (and along) the position area rather than across it.
3) Try not to be too perfect. Playing a longer shot (or generally favoring center-table) lets you get away with being less precise.
4) Get your stroke consistent enough with finesse, smooth pull back and smooth follow through that you can rely on bridge length and follow-through length to vary speed rather than more/less muscle.
5) Move the ball less if possible. Getting good at pocket speed (and slightly more/less) means you become more familiar with small variances in speed. Trying to be precise across a wider range of distances is a bigger challenge.
6) Never underestimate how much spin off a rail can accelerate or kill cue ball speed. Perhaps consider the shot with no side spin and more varying degrees of straight top/center/low.
7) Shoot some ball pocketing drills with and without spin where you need to get the cue ball to a specific location. Repeat until you’re more consistent than when you started.
Excellent post. FYI, I've added a quote to the advice section of the speed control resource page.
Regards,
Dave
Ok, so, I thought all night about whether to respond to this nonsense or not. I originally decided to just let it go, even told the Moderator Mr. Wilson cya, meaning I was just saying the heck with AZB. But the #1 thing is always the truth, and I am going to set the record straight so everyone will know what Scott posted here is, for the most part, completely false.
1) To call me a nit, claim that I am cheap, and drag family into this is really low class. Just no excuse for something this idiotic.
2) I did NOT want a one hour lesson. On your website there was the choice of a two hour lesson for $150 or a four hour lesson for $300. I chose the 2 hour/$150 since so many people had warned me not to waste my time taking a lesson from you Scott, that it was a waste of time, that the Mother Drills were a joke.
3) You did NOT stay with me 6 hours. You called that morning and said you were going to arrive late. Plus I needed to go into the office about 1:00 that day. So, the fact is that you were at my place 3.5 to 4 hours, at the most.
4) The only Mother Drill I had problems with was MD#1 where I had a problem keeping my elbow up, still, pinned, etc. Tons of posts and threads have been written about this (elbow drop) so I wont go into any further details. I will say, however, multiple pros, including perhaps the greatest all around player ever, have told me that's the Snooker stroke and since we are playing American pool its not that critical.
5) You stated I refuse to practice with any kind of disciplined practice regimen. Just so you will know I showed Nick Varner what my practice routine is and he thought it was fine. I value Nick's opinion in person more than I do people's opinions on a website. And my practice regimen does consist of working on stroke and mechanics.
6) You stated I expected to get immediate results. Wrong again. Jeepers, I still work on some of the things that Tom Rossman showed me during our first lesson back on December 26, 1998. Early last week I was even working on something that Mark Wilson had told me back in December of 2004. If I was expecting immediate results I would have quit a long time ago.
7) I refuse to drive anywhere to play. There is a little bit of truth to this. Just a little. I've driven over to Madison, down to Jasper, down to Evansville, over to Vincennes looking for some competition. I am not going to drive to Los Angeles or Las Vegas or Miami or wherever. If I was rich I would be glad to go to those places but, unfortunately, i'm not wealthy.
8) I refuse to play the local guys. Well, lets examine this:
A) One local guy who was a really good player came down to my place and we played several times. He got cancer and died. Trust me when I say I miss him. He was a great guy and outstanding player.
B) Another local guy that was pretty good that I played with some also got cancer and died.
C) There was another one or two but I stayed away from them.
9) You state I don't play leagues, don't gamble, and don't play tournaments. Correct, I don't know of any leagues in the area except one about 25 miles down the road and its not worth the time and effort as Helen Keller would be a star in that league. I was told there is a league in Evansville but i'm not going to drive the 70 miles to Evansville once a week. And you are right, I don't gamble. Again, i'm not rich. If I lose $200 gambling I would have a cow. And as far as tournaments, there aren't any around here. I told Nick Varner if he got his big Pro Tournament up again down in Owensboro that I would be glad to come down and play.
10) And its not been 15 years Scott. Its only been 10 years. You were at my place in August of 2007.
Bottom line is I started this thread because recently I messed up some shots due to speed control being off a little. I was curious if anyone had heard any profound statements over the years that helped them with speed control. And all of a sudden people started attacking me, talking about magic bullits, twisting things around, and then you wrote your dissertation on me Scott.
I see AZB Forums really hasn't changed much over the last several years or so. The crap just never seems to stop.
Anyway, I just wanted to let people know the TRUTH, what the FACTS really are. Everyone have a good day. I am going to spend 3-4 hours at the table today working on some issues.
r/Mike
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Like I said Mike...the regular posters here know all about you, through your posting history. You can try to change anything I wrote to suit yourself, but it's still the truth. Funny how literally 1000's of students have taken lessons from me, and most have drastically improved. No one instructor is the end all-be all, but I do know what I'm talking about, and I have a very successful career record teaching all abilities from beginner to professional.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Over the years as my skill level has improved, and as I see and play with more top players, I have found that the thing that helped me the most is this:
Develop an awareness of the *time* from when your tip is pulled all the way back until you strike the cue ball. Really try to absorb yourself in that time period, and try to feel like it is a LONG time. Consider that you are bringing your cue up to the correct speed as gradually as possible. For me, a clear pause on the back stroke really helps to promote this feeling and awareness.
In practice, spend time hitting the ball *softer* than you think, and focus on your accurate cueing (striking the cue ball in the exact spot you intend) and smooth delivery and follow through to get the ball where it needs to go.
ROLL THE BALL. Learn how to roll the ball well. Learn how to make the cueball begin rolling right at contact with the tip. Learn how to run out by just rolling the ball. You can still use english, just don't punch the ball around. I'm just talking about some practice sessions. When I'm actually playing, I'm usually playing for medium full angles so I can punch to the rail and spin into position from there. I find this to be the best overall technique for me to stay in line...but there will be many many times where the easiest position comes from simply rolling the ball at a good speed.
Obviously "speed control" comes from accurately blending a lot of variables, primarily fullness of hit, tip placement, and cue speed. With many things, I find that determining the *limits* is a good place to start. Find out how far you can move the ball in a variety of ways. Also find out how *softly* you can hit the ball and still get the cue ball action you want. Your brain is remarkably skilled at filling in the middle for you. I love the drill where you set up a straight in diagonally across the table shot...like 2 diamonds out of ear corner pocket with cueball and object ball. On a 9' table this is like a 6-7 foot shot. Practice doing a perfect stop shot at the *minimum* speed. See how soft you can hit the ball and still get it to stop. Try the flip side too. See how hard you can hit it and get the ball to stop. If you can fire the ball in at break speed and hit the cueball accurately so it stops, and also drag the ball at minimum speed and get a stop, you are probably cueing VERY well, and should begin to develop some nice speed.
These are just some of the things that I think have helped me.
On a side note, I've been playing around with the OB Digicue Blue, and wow. You might not realize how much of an impact on speed a really straight smooth stroke can make. When I stroke really cleanly, my speed control goes WAY up. And the Digicue helps me feel that type of stroke. Like 2 or 3 15 minute sessions a week makes a very big difference.
Hope this helps,
KMRUNOUT
Develop an awareness of the *time* from when your tip is pulled all the way back until you strike the cue ball. Really try to absorb yourself in that time period, and try to feel like it is a LONG time. Consider that you are bringing your cue up to the correct speed as gradually as possible. For me, a clear pause on the back stroke really helps to promote this feeling and awareness.
In practice, spend time hitting the ball *softer* than you think, and focus on your accurate cueing (striking the cue ball in the exact spot you intend) and smooth delivery and follow through to get the ball where it needs to go.
ROLL THE BALL. Learn how to roll the ball well. Learn how to make the cueball begin rolling right at contact with the tip. Learn how to run out by just rolling the ball. You can still use english, just don't punch the ball around. I'm just talking about some practice sessions. When I'm actually playing, I'm usually playing for medium full angles so I can punch to the rail and spin into position from there. I find this to be the best overall technique for me to stay in line...but there will be many many times where the easiest position comes from simply rolling the ball at a good speed.
Obviously "speed control" comes from accurately blending a lot of variables, primarily fullness of hit, tip placement, and cue speed. With many things, I find that determining the *limits* is a good place to start. Find out how far you can move the ball in a variety of ways. Also find out how *softly* you can hit the ball and still get the cue ball action you want. Your brain is remarkably skilled at filling in the middle for you. I love the drill where you set up a straight in diagonally across the table shot...like 2 diamonds out of ear corner pocket with cueball and object ball. On a 9' table this is like a 6-7 foot shot. Practice doing a perfect stop shot at the *minimum* speed. See how soft you can hit the ball and still get it to stop. Try the flip side too. See how hard you can hit it and get the ball to stop. If you can fire the ball in at break speed and hit the cueball accurately so it stops, and also drag the ball at minimum speed and get a stop, you are probably cueing VERY well, and should begin to develop some nice speed.
These are just some of the things that I think have helped me.
On a side note, I've been playing around with the OB Digicue Blue, and wow. You might not realize how much of an impact on speed a really straight smooth stroke can make. When I stroke really cleanly, my speed control goes WAY up. And the Digicue helps me feel that type of stroke. Like 2 or 3 15 minute sessions a week makes a very big difference.
Hope this helps,
KMRUNOUT
Dave...The main reason you can't understand how MD5 works so well (and how/why the progressive MD's are tied into each other}, is because you don't understand what, why, or how we teach stroke. You had an opportunity to learn this, as you were given the chance to audit pool school for free more than 10 years ago...but you only came for one day, so you missed all the information about how and why we do things the way we do. You have your way to teaching things, which is fine. But you really have no knowledge about how or why we do things the way we do...so you're really not qualified to make a judgement call like you have below. Talk to Randy...maybe you can learn something new.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott,
I am aware of how you guys use the up-and-down-the-table drill to establish reference speeds that are applied to other shot types. I know this approach is effective for many of your students. I just prefer a different approach.
Regards,
Dave
Please enlighten us.
Ancient chinese secret...come to pool school! 
You could also ask any SPF instructor to show you. Since you're in Europe you could go ask Ratta to show you. He's in Germany.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
You could also ask any SPF instructor to show you. Since you're in Europe you could go ask Ratta to show you. He's in Germany.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
I just try to accellerate smoothly and vary the length of my backswing. Shorter backswing for softer shots, longer for harder shots. The whole stuff with numbering different strengths of shots and shooting the cueball up and down the table never really worked for me, yet that is what many of the instructors recommend...So at some point some guy must have benefitted from it.
To me it's more of a feel thing. I have a particular speed which I consider a comfortable, controllable speed that is my go to, or reference. I know how that speed works on almost every shot. Then it's easy to take a little off or add some, which I do with backswing adjustments. If you want to improve your cueball control, I suggest shooting all your shots at one speed for a week (I suggest a firm, medium speed where you have ajustment options both ways, but you should choose your optimal speed), varying only the tip position. It really helps to understand both speed and english. Since you are firmly establishing your reference, it will stick better in your mind.
It's really pointless to have a reference speed without knowing the reactions off object balls, IMO, so shooting balls up and down the table is at best a beginning step.
To me it's more of a feel thing. I have a particular speed which I consider a comfortable, controllable speed that is my go to, or reference. I know how that speed works on almost every shot. Then it's easy to take a little off or add some, which I do with backswing adjustments. If you want to improve your cueball control, I suggest shooting all your shots at one speed for a week (I suggest a firm, medium speed where you have ajustment options both ways, but you should choose your optimal speed), varying only the tip position. It really helps to understand both speed and english. Since you are firmly establishing your reference, it will stick better in your mind.
It's really pointless to have a reference speed without knowing the reactions off object balls, IMO, so shooting balls up and down the table is at best a beginning step.
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