Large favor I owe cuemaker Chuck Starkey

D

Dhakala

Banned
Ah, much better! Thank, Wilson, for deleting the six threads that I started. I've never encountered a forum with a 1500-character message limit before, and I chose the wrong solution.

Synopsis: Chuck Starkey makes a good plain-jane cue in the $175 to $200 range. But he is intolerably incompetent at inlays, splices, or anything more complicated than sticking four pieces of wood together end-to-end. Worse, he is indifferent to improvement, preferring to have an unsatisfactory product returned and re-sell it as-is rather than make it right. His eBay photos and descriptions are unreliable, whether by his intent or his ineptitude. He tells dissatisfied customers that he did them “favors” by selling them one of his cues or providing a letter of authenticity, and dismisses their concerns as “mental problems”.

I bought a cue from Chuck Starkey last November. I liked it very much, so I asked Chuck to make another cue for me. In March, the cue I ordered appeared on eBay. I hit the “Buy It Now” button.

When the cue arrived, the curly maple handle looked like this (click to enlarge):



I advised Chuck that the cue was on its way back. When I returned from the PO, I had my $650 PayPal refund and Chuck’s reply, in which he said that he had invested “an excess of $620 and 22 hrs labor” in the cue, and “i was under the impression i was doing you a favor.”

I acknowledged that I owed Chuck a “favor” for concealing the flawed maple in his eBay pictures.

(contd.)
 
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I then asked a well-known, Blue Book cuemaker to make me a similar cue, which is still in progress. He requests that his name not be published here, “but if you wanted to quote me as an un-named source, I could provide verification to certain individuals if needed.” PM me and I’ll forward such requests to him.

In July, Chuck re-listed the returned cue, unaltered, starting at $1.00 with no reserve. New photos showed the flawed handle, and his description said, in part:

if you do not understand that wood has natural flaws and inclusions please do not bid on this cue. … the shaft is a predator 314…”

I won the cue for $270, and Chuck agreed to ship it directly to my cuemaker for replacement of the flawed maple. He also wrote,

best of luck replacing the handle, i am the only one that, i know, that has the equipment that will hold the butt in a lathe. remember i make the wood joint pin (1/2”-8, similar to some carom cues) so i dont know how anyone could take apart and put back together straight without the equipment that i made.

My cuemaker responded,

“Who the hell is this guy? And what the hell is he smoking? :D”

(contd.)
 
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Upon receiving the cue to be rehabilitated, my cuemaker added these comments:

I hate to badmouth another cuemaker, but WTF? I am amazed that he is able to pull off the wood joint. The buttsleeve looks like a blind drunk put the pieces of ivory into it, and the pieces he used in the rings and buttsleeve are horrible. The cue has obviously had the last 50 thousandths sanded off of it, with rough grit paper. (wavy surface) It's a miracle that the joint lines up and the cue is straight!

The snakewood IS nice though, and with a new handle on it, it should play
fine.

The handle’s rehab went flawlessly, of course, and I received it on September 11 – an uncannily accurate omen.

I planned to resell it to help pay for the similar cue being made. But I immediately noticed a potential difficulty.

I wrote to Chuck, noting that no Predator 314 logo appeared on the shaft. He explained that he buys unfinished shafts from Predator and turns them down. I asked him to provide on his letterhead affirmation of the cue’s materials and the shaft’s provenance. He said that he would, but added

“…ever since i have known you all you have done is to complain and now you want me to do you a large.”

Actually, I had also sent Chuck nearly $600 for two cues, plus a dozen or so potential customers before the second cue arrived. But I acknowledged that I now owed him two “favors” – one regular, one “large”.

(contd.)
 
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Further inspection of the shaft revealed only four radial segments. Clay Etheridge of Showcase Billiards confirmed my count. Darrin Brown, Predator’s Customer Service Manager, informs me that Predator has never made a shaft with four segments. He then asked how long the ferrule was – 1.0 inch. Predator has used ¾” ferrules since 1997.

Chuck replied to this information:

david, i just checked my book and found out that the shaft is a tiger not a 314. i made an honest error. if you will return cue to me i will pay you back what you spent, plus what you payed to have handle replaced. i will only do this after i recieve cue to see that it has not been screwed up. as for as the ferrule, i change ferrules all the time you cannot tell a brand of shaft.by the length of the ferrule

Tiger’s and Predator’s ferrules are proprietary low-mass designs, of course. Substitutions would alter the shaft’s squirt characteristics and resale value. Not to mention that such a substitution should be disclosed to a buyer.

Chuck added this unsolicited advice:

dave in what i hope is our last communication i would just like to tell you that my wife and i went over a few of your emails and we have decided that you may have some type of mental problem, i'm serious, maybe you should see a doctor.

Perhaps he’s right, but it won’t be a doctor recommended by Chuck or his wife.

(contd.)
 
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I also noted these flaws in Chuck’s workmanship:

The ivory inlays in the butt were cut raggedly. Corners are broken and edges are jagged. Next to one of the longitudinal inlays is a white speck which I presume is ivory. It should have been removed before the finish was applied.

These items protrude quite noticeably above the surface of the cue:

- the last thin black ring before the end of the butt;

- the longitudinal ivory inlays in the butt sleeve;

- the thin black ring beneath the ivory joint ring in the butt

This cue was finished in March. I would not expect properly seasoned wood to shrink significantly by September.

My cuemaker added his observations, which are more astute than mine:

To add to the list of flaws, the forearm had some noticeable low spots in it, like he sanded off some kind of blem or something. The surface of the cue was not flat at all. It was as if he sanded the last fifty thousandths off of the cue with 80 grit. There were noticeable scratched under the finish. IMO, if you take more than a few thou off the cue with sandpaper, you are a hack. The bumper was attached with a wood screw, and there was no way at all to adjust the weight.

Like I mentioned previously, the pin was actually very straight, and the joint went together nicely. (as far as lining up and being straight) So he's not a total hack. <g> The actual edges of the butt and shaft looked like crap though. Way too much rounding of the edges. (Excessive sanding again)


(contd.)
 
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I was reluctant to rely for my refund upon Chuck’s judgment of what constitutes “screwed up”, for obvious reasons. But I returned the cue to him. I received all of my money back within 5 business days.

Chuck’s last email to me says,

one of the local players that has allways loved this cue just hit the state lottery for 2500.00. with the wood replaced i think i can get a grand for the cue.

I consider the regular-sized favor that I owed to Chuck repaid in full. But I still owe him a “large”.

I’m working off that debt with this series of posts, which will be replicated on other billiards forums wherever and whenever I find them.

(End of OP.)
 
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good advice

Dhakala said:
Chuck added this unsolicited advice:

dave in what i hope is our last communication i would just like to tell you that my wife and i went over a few of your emails and we have decided that you may have some type of mental problem, i'm serious, maybe you should see a doctor.

Perhaps he’s right, but it won’t be a doctor recommended by Chuck or his wife.
Click to expand...

This was some good, free, advice. Take it.
 
misterpoole said:
This was some good, free, advice. Take it.
Click to expand...

I agree with Chuck Starkey & his wife & misterpoole. What is it that you wish to accomplish by posting this all over the internet?
 
straybullet said:
What is it that you wish to accomplish by posting this all over the internet?
Click to expand...

I hope to accomplish Chuck Starkey's exit from the cuemaking profession, of course.
 
Dhakala said:
I hope to accomplish Chuck Starkey's exit from the cuemaking profession, of course.
Click to expand...

Well... knock yourself out, hot-shot. He gave you all of your money back despite the fact that you were unreasonable - so I think you might be doing the opposite. It sounds like he was more than cooperative with you and in return you attempt to damage his livelihood. I think doing this makes you look bad, not the cuemaker (unless I'm missing something) :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
the original handle did look nasty and advertising a predator shaft when its not. definitly reason to warn other players. just one question, if you had a bad experience the first time why on earth did you buy it a second time?
 
Dhakala said:
I then asked a well-known, Blue Book cuemaker to make me a similar cue, which is still in progress. He requests that his name not be published here,
“Who the hell is this guy? And what the hell is he smoking? :D”

(contd.)
Click to expand...
NAME the well-known cuemaker that wants to remain unnamed. If he criticizes another ones work, he should have his name on that criticism. Let us decide if he is creditable.

BTW, it is considered bad form to post negative remarks from "unnamed sources". And it's downright unfair of you to do it!
 
straybullet said:
I agree with Chuck Starkey & his wife & misterpoole. What is it that you wish to accomplish by posting this all over the internet?
Click to expand...
He's paying back the favor that he owes. I'm sure Mr. Starkey will be more then happy with this! I sure hope that Dhakala never owes me a favor.
 
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Since I have been posting I have never advocated that a thread be removed, but I guess there is a first time for everything, as I really think Mr. Wilson should remove this.

This whole thing is just one "Royal Pain in the Ass" guy who has NOTHING to complain about. ALL his money was returned to him and the cue maker in question treated him better than he should have.

This is nothing more than one idiots attempt to smear the reputation of a cue maker who bend over backwards to please him. NO ONE was harmed in ANY way in any of his transactions with Mr. Starkey. ALL of his refunds were given in a very timely manner. There is no reason this post should stay around.
 
"AND WHAT IS HE SMOKING"

DUH....perhaps dried NIGHTCRAWLER seasoned in mustard extracted from some of the most contaminated soil on da SOUTH SIDE. Are you sorry now??

On a serious note, IMHO:

This thread, to me, stands on it's own merit. There's no linkage between this and other post's/thread's made by DHAKALA. Claims were made and the most serious substansiated by pics on a timely basis. Some might have handled this in a differant manner ,but, we all have to do what we have to do.

Time will tell who incurs the most damage.....
 
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You know folks like you do have issues!

Dhakala said:
I hope to accomplish Chuck Starkey's exit from the cuemaking profession, of course.
Click to expand...

A year ago another well known cuemaker did not handle a cue I had commisioned him to restore in a proffesional manner ! and like yourself I was pissed and first asked him to do his job and treat me proffesionally then after he did not respond I posted letters to him to force him to handle his business! but you know what? He came through and returned my cue and it was done properly ! I immediately posted a statement letting everyone know that he had come through and as far as I was concerned the matter was and is still over and done with!

You clearly state that this cuemaker bent over backward and not only tried to fix the problem but he refunded your money and offered to rebuy the cue !!!!1 So WTF is your issue now ? I agree with him and the other posters here get a shrink and stop bothering us with your drivel! I once bought a cue from someone like you and because of a serious illness and some other problems there was a delay in paying him I made the guy aware and offered to return his cue, when he declined I paid him once things were settled he then did the same thing you are doing he went on and on way after the issue had been resolved ! Hey guy get a life and get over it! or at least stop crying to us no one cares :p
 
Well damn that explains it all...

ribdoner said:
"AND WHAT IS HE SMOKING"

DUH....perhaps dried NIGHTCRAWLER seasoned in mustard extracted from some of the most contaminated soil on da SOUTH SIDE. Are you sorry now??

On a serious note, IMHO:

This thread, to me, stands on it's own merit. There's no linkage between this and other post's/thread's made by DHAKALA. Claims were made and the most serious substansiated by pics on a timely basis. Some might have handled this in a differant manner ,but, we all have to do what we have to do.

Time will tell who incurs the most damage.....
Click to expand...

I did not realize this is the same guy that bragged about ripping off his friends with fake weed! :eek:
 
Dhakala said:
I then asked a well-known, Blue Book cuemaker to make me a similar cue, which is still in progress. He requests that his name not be published here, “but if you wanted to quote me as an un-named source, I could provide verification to certain individuals if needed.” PM me and I’ll forward such requests to him.

In July, Chuck re-listed the returned cue, unaltered, starting at $1.00 with no reserve. New photos showed the flawed handle, and his description said, in part:

if you do not understand that wood has natural flaws and inclusions please do not bid on this cue. … the shaft is a predator 314…”

I won the cue for $270, and Chuck agreed to ship it directly to my cuemaker for replacement of the flawed maple. He also wrote,

best of luck replacing the handle, i am the only one that, i know, that has the equipment that will hold the butt in a lathe. remember i make the wood joint pin (1/2”-8, similar to some carom cues) so i dont know how anyone could take apart and put back together straight without the equipment that i made.

My cuemaker responded,

“Who the hell is this guy? And what the hell is he smoking? :D”

(contd.)
Click to expand...

Just to make sure i'm following the contorted sequence of events here:
You ordered a cued and returned it because you didn't like the wood marks in the handle...

The cuemaker seems to have pissed you off by commenting that he was "doing you a favor" when he built the custom cue for you. WHILE refunding your money.

THEN, he decides to cut his loss and sell the cue he made for you on ebay...without changing the handle. Where you, already angry at him and finding the handle to be unsatisfactory...BUY THE SAME CUE FROM THE SAME GUY AGAIN?!?!

Then you have the cue worked on by another cue maker, ONLY THEN you find out that the shaft is not a predator so you notify him. He offers to replace it AFTER SOMEONE ELSE HAS WORKED ON IT and PAY FOR THE WORK YOU HAD DONE BY THAT PERSON. He is as good as his word and refunds your money and you proceed to badmouth him here.

Is that about right?

Cheers,
RC
 
Jeff said:
Here is the ebay listing for one of the cues that this guy is complaining about.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=21212&item=200011455111
Click to expand...

That might be the Q in question.Looks good....based on pics.

Can't speak for (or as well) as DHAKALA but I speculate he took exception to being called a NUT or something to that effect by the builder. Although he is an enigma the builder's opinion about his mental health should have remained invisible.
 
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