breakshot WWYD?
- Thread starter alphadog
- Start date
Center draw with medium speed,,,,,,
High right and send it air-mail.
..that's how Willie and I play it.
LOL...air-mail.
Looks like a textbook perfect break shot to me. It's a little hard to see from the photo but it looks like the cue ball is a little closer to the side rail than the break ball, which is perfect. Center ball will send you to the head rail if you aren't careful about exactly where you are hitting the pack. Hi follow medium hard and it doesn't matter where you are hitting the pack.
Hey guys thanks for replies. Yes high right seems best.
Table was very damp-4 breaks in a row yielded same result-
Cueball stack in bottom left corner of stack.
On the 5th break I reduced both the high and right and
got a fair break .
Table / room are dry now look at break
Notice cueball location. See how it could have been buried?
Table was very damp-4 breaks in a row yielded same result-
Cueball stack in bottom left corner of stack.
On the 5th break I reduced both the high and right and
got a fair break .
Table / room are dry now look at break
Notice cueball location. See how it could have been buried?
Attachments
Always follow those "Rules of Thumb" and you'll be okay. I have attached the .pdf file that I sent you yesterday to this post - those are the same rules covered by Pat Fleming in The Creative Edge
Rules of Thumb
Rules of Thumb
Last edited:
Folks:
I may be the oddball here, but after practicing it a bit a while back (after hearing John Schmidt uses it), I found I like low-inside on these, to pull the cue ball to the rail, and spin back out to the center of the table.
For the shot shown in post #1 in this thread, I have great success with low-left, with a firm stroke. After contacting the rack, the low-left pulls the cue ball to the left side cushion, and it spins back out to the center of the table, where you're likely to have a greater selection of shots than if the cue ball is near the foot cushion. (And, you'll never find yourself [cue ball] plastered against what's left of the back of the rack, either.)
Not many people like using inside spin on break balls, so it's definitely a practiced shot. But you may like the results better. I do agree with John Schmidt on this one.
-Sean
I may be the oddball here, but after practicing it a bit a while back (after hearing John Schmidt uses it), I found I like low-inside on these, to pull the cue ball to the rail, and spin back out to the center of the table.
For the shot shown in post #1 in this thread, I have great success with low-left, with a firm stroke. After contacting the rack, the low-left pulls the cue ball to the left side cushion, and it spins back out to the center of the table, where you're likely to have a greater selection of shots than if the cue ball is near the foot cushion. (And, you'll never find yourself [cue ball] plastered against what's left of the back of the rack, either.)
Not many people like using inside spin on break balls, so it's definitely a practiced shot. But you may like the results better. I do agree with John Schmidt on this one.
-Sean
Tony Robles likes low left on this shot, too. I don't know if he'll use it every time, but he does use that shot. It wouldn't work on my old table though, which was slow.
Yup, that's right -- I forgot Tony uses it as well. I just recall Bobby Hunter was commentating on one of the older DCC Straight Pool challenge matches, and when that shot (the one being discussed here in this thread) came up in the match, Bobby said something to the effect of "you know, Schmidtty is really good at using low-inside on these, where the cue ball is pulled to the side rail and back out to the center of the table..."
And my eyebrows went up. It made sense. Instead of the cue ball trying to fight its way through the calamity it made after contacting the rack -- and after kissing some balls, inevitably finding itself near the foot rail; why not instead have the cue ball "getting out of the way" of the calamity and go towards where you'd *love* to have the cue ball in the first place -- the center of the table?
You obviously have to be comfortable using inside spin with a firm stroke, and yes, you do have to account for deflection -- the tendency is to overcut these when you apply a firm stroke. But after a bit of practice, it comes, and you'll like the results. At least I do.
-Sean <-- just an oddball no matter how you slice it
Tony spends a great deal of time examining precisely where the cue-ball will contact the rack so I can't say for certain he has a rule based strictly on cue-ball placement. I think he makes his determination based on whether he's hitting an object ball on the top or bottom half.
That said, Tony's also a GREAT pocketer with incredible cue-ball control when using inside or out. The man does what he wants and has the talent to get away with it.
Personally, I prefer using outside english whenever possible so I'm always using right spin here, just a matter of high or low. Like Blackjack's rules of thumb, I would use top spin when the cueball is closer to the rail than the object ball and bottom if the reverse is true.
Always follow those "Rules of Thumb" and you'll be okay. I have attached the .pdf file that I sent you yesterday to this post - those are the same rules covered by Pat Fleming in The Creative Edge
Rules of Thumb
Since I don't play often enough to remember, I'm printing this out and putting it near my pool table at the house. Thank you BlackJack!! :thumbup:
Thanks for sharing Black Jack. I really enjoyed the Creative Edge segment by Pat.
I always found this interesting. I've spoken to Mike Sigel, Pat Fleming and John Schmidt on exactly this point. That is, how much time should a player spend basically playing position with the cue ball during the break shot. Each of them said the same thing: Sharp angle, use follow, shallow angle, use draw. This wasn't something they said that beginners should do. It is what THEY do. Schmidt even went so far as to say something like, "Show me someone who can predict where the cue ball is going on the break and he's a better man than I."
The flavor I get is that if you put the right kind of hit on the ball during a break shot you will get a good spread, and that's all you can hope for. The odds are that you will almost always get something to shoot at, so don't complicate life with lots of spins.
Not sure what to make of all that, but these guys play pretty sporty so it might be worth listening to.
On these very thin cuts that have to be hit relatively hard, believe it or not, outside english may do you more harm than good for a few reasons.
First is expecting the outside to aide by spinning the OB in isn't very effective on thin cuts, so using it for that reason IMO will do little good.
Next, outside english on this shot hit firmly will squirt the CB a bit toward the OB creating a thicker hit. Not what you want when trying to judge a very thin hit.
Conversly, a little inside english on a firmly hit shot will tend to squirt the CB away from the OB, just what the shot usually needs since when we miss these, its from undercutting them, not overcutting them. :thumbup:
One last consideration, when the CB hits the rack from this angle with outside english the tendency is for it to eat into the rack. Not necessarily a bad thing, but if it doesn't get through, you could get glued to a ball.
Hitting it with some inside, besides the main benefit of squirting away from the OB, going into the rack at this angle promotes the CB to jump off the rack, dive to the bottom short rail and away from congestion two rails to the left. And, the inside when using draw helps prevent the CB fromrunning off the side of the rack all the way to the head rail.
Just a few secondary considerations.
First is expecting the outside to aide by spinning the OB in isn't very effective on thin cuts, so using it for that reason IMO will do little good.
Next, outside english on this shot hit firmly will squirt the CB a bit toward the OB creating a thicker hit. Not what you want when trying to judge a very thin hit.
Conversly, a little inside english on a firmly hit shot will tend to squirt the CB away from the OB, just what the shot usually needs since when we miss these, its from undercutting them, not overcutting them. :thumbup:
One last consideration, when the CB hits the rack from this angle with outside english the tendency is for it to eat into the rack. Not necessarily a bad thing, but if it doesn't get through, you could get glued to a ball.
Hitting it with some inside, besides the main benefit of squirting away from the OB, going into the rack at this angle promotes the CB to jump off the rack, dive to the bottom short rail and away from congestion two rails to the left. And, the inside when using draw helps prevent the CB fromrunning off the side of the rack all the way to the head rail.
Just a few secondary considerations.
Last edited:
Always follow those "Rules of Thumb" and you'll be okay. I have attached the .pdf file that I sent you yesterday to this post - those are the same rules covered by Pat Fleming in The Creative Edge
Rules of Thumb
Good links. My only edit would be in the below the rack break shot when the cueball is going to contact the rack beyond the middle ball, I use high outside and come one rail to the middle of the table. If the cueball is going to contact the rack before the middle ball I use high inside and come three rails to the middle of the table.
I've heard things like this before, but I can't say I've ever seen this happen. Can you shoot the cue ball into the pack with inside or outside english and really see any difference? I can't, but I'm willing to be corrected if someone shows me how.
Again, I can't say I've ever seen the cue ball jump off the pack because it had inside or outside or no spin.
The thing about using outside english is funny. EVERYBODY says to shoot this shot with "a little outside english." But nobody ever says why the right english is needed. I think it is because they shoot every cut to the left with outside english, which is debatable -- good points on both sides of the issue. The time I have seen anybody give a REASON for using outside english on this particular shot was none other than Willie Mosconi. In his instructional video, he mentions it. It is very easy to miss if you aren't paying close attention. If you've ever hit the break shot in this thread, you will know that the cue ball will often go to the bottom rail and then roll straight up table to nowheresville. Mosconi says that the right english makes the cue ball hit the bottom rail and then rebound toward the cluster of balls. This keeps the cue ball from being lost uptable... GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME! :wink:
