[HELP] Northern Rubber rails Cue Ball hops/jumps off the rail. WHY. [HELP]

Hustlin-Felice

Hustlin-Felice

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi.

Around 5 months ago I bought a brand new table: Dynamic III 9ft with Northern Rubber rails.

A two weeks ago since that time I had first occasion to play on this table. And immediatly I spotted a issue with the rail. In the begining I thought it was just one, but then I took with camera and I notice it was all of them.

Sometimes it hops/ jumps off the rail in 2cm sometimes 20cm.

I checked on which height is nose of the cushion and is 35-37 mm from the bed.
I using Aramith TV Pro 57,2mm balls.

Humidity in room is 52%, Temperature 20 -21 C.

I was shooting without ani spin, without elevation of cue.

I adding to short movies of which I shot in the morning, they are on youtube:

Part1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc5uL1BRxw8

Part2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOGDUOg6ovs

So my question are:
1. What is the reason for it ?
2. Is this a foult of Dynamic Billiards company, for using Northern Rubber raild for pool table ?

3. How to solve this problem
 
Where are you from?

Dynamic change their russian rubber to northern rubber because rails were too springy.
 
Last edited:
Hustlin-Felice said:
Hi.

Around 5 months ago I bought a brand new table: Dynamic III 9ft with Northern Rubber rails.

A two weeks ago since that time I had first occasion to play on this table. And immediatly I spotted a issue with the rail. In the begining I thought it was just one, but then I took with camera and I notice it was all of them.

Sometimes it hops/ jumps off the rail in 2cm sometimes 20cm.

I checked on which height is nose of the cushion and is 35-37 mm from the bed.
I using Aramith TV Pro 57,2mm balls.

Humidity in room is 52%, Temperature 20 -21 C.

I was shooting without ani spin, without elevation of cue.

I adding to short movies of which I shot in the morning, they are on youtube:

Part1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc5uL1BRxw8

Part2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOGDUOg6ovs

So my question are:
1. What is the reason for it ?
2. Is this a foult of Dynamic Billiards company, for using Northern Rubber raild for pool table ?

3. How to solve this problem
Click to expand...

Most likely the rails are too low, but I'm not a table mechanic. Try putting this question in the Mechanics forum. Johnnyt
 
Wont help you much, but its probably the rails. Ive played on such tables in a bunch of rooms with cheap balls als aramith balls and never had this problem (unless a rail needed repair).
 
Johnnyt said:
Do the rails still jump in the afternoon when humidity is lower? johnnyt
Click to expand...

Yep, they do that all the time. Morning, afternoon and evening.

What can be wrong with it ?

The nose of them is at 35/36 mm height. According to WPA is should be 63 1/3% of ball size. And I using 57,2 mm Aramith.
 
I am certainly no table mechanic, but had this same problem at a new pool room. check measurement of rail "point" over bed of table and compare to some other at a pool room. my guess is that it is lower, hence, the jump off the table.
 
Well, do the math,I didn't, sorry. Short of spending money on it, if the rubber is low, shim under the rails with the missing height.

I'm not a table mechanic, but this is the least expensive logical solution.

Go to home depot, get some Formica, cut the width, make a template to locate the bolt holes, drill the holes in the Formica, raise the rails.
 
Hustlin-Felice said:
Hi.

Around 5 months ago I bought a brand new table: Dynamic III 9ft with Northern Rubber rails.

A two weeks ago since that time I had first occasion to play on this table. And immediatly I spotted a issue with the rail. In the begining I thought it was just one, but then I took with camera and I notice it was all of them.

Sometimes it hops/ jumps off the rail in 2cm sometimes 20cm.

I checked on which height is nose of the cushion and is 35-37 mm from the bed.
I using Aramith TV Pro 57,2mm balls.

Humidity in room is 52%, Temperature 20 -21 C.

I was shooting without ani spin, without elevation of cue.

I adding to short movies of which I shot in the morning, they are on youtube:

Part1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc5uL1BRxw8

Part2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOGDUOg6ovs

So my question are:
1. What is the reason for it ?
2. Is this a foult of Dynamic Billiards company, for using Northern Rubber raild for pool table ?

3. How to solve this problem
Click to expand...

What cushion profile is on the rails, K66 or K55?
 
Hustlin-Felice said:
Hi.

Around 5 months ago I bought a brand new table: Dynamic III 9ft with Northern Rubber rails.

A two weeks ago since that time I had first occasion to play on this table. And immediatly I spotted a issue with the rail. In the begining I thought it was just one, but then I took with camera and I notice it was all of them.

Sometimes it hops/ jumps off the rail in 2cm sometimes 20cm.

I checked on which height is nose of the cushion and is 35-37 mm from the bed.
I using Aramith TV Pro 57,2mm balls.

Humidity in room is 52%, Temperature 20 -21 C.

I was shooting without ani spin, without elevation of cue.

I adding to short movies of which I shot in the morning, they are on youtube:

Part1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc5uL1BRxw8

Part2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOGDUOg6ovs

So my question are:
1. What is the reason for it ?
2. Is this a foult of Dynamic Billiards company, for using Northern Rubber raild for pool table ?

3. How to solve this problem
Click to expand...

35-37mm is a variable in height between 1 3/8" to 1 29/64"...that's up to a 1/16" of an inch difference....which is a huge variable, and speaks clearly about the quality build of the rails. Your table looks like a Brunswick GC knockoff, so I'm going to assume the rails are 1 3/4" thick, and with it being built more recently, my guess is the cushions are of the K66 profile. If that be the case, the sub-rail bevel is set lower than it should be to get the nose of the cushion down to the correct playing nose height, but in doing so, that leaves the back of the cushion at the wrong height...meaning the cushions have the wrong pitch to them, meaning the body of the cushion is not behind the nose height where it needs to be in order for the cushions to play right....but, if the ARE the K66 cushions, they'll never play right with a sub-rail thickness of 1 3/4".

Just shimming the rails up to raise the nose of the cushions...won't change the downward pitch of the cushions, so all that's going to do is put the nose of the cushions high enough to then start pinching the balls and kill the speed of the balls coming off the rails completely.

Glen
 
realkingcobra said:
35-37mm is a variable in height between 1 3/8" to 1 29/64"...that's up to a 1/16" of an inch difference....which is a huge variable, and speaks clearly about the quality build of the rails. Your table looks like a Brunswick GC knockoff, so I'm going to assume the rails are 1 3/4" thick, and with it being built more recently, my guess is the cushions are of the K66 profile. If that be the case, the sub-rail bevel is set lower than it should be to get the nose of the cushion down to the correct playing nose height, but in doing so, that leaves the back of the cushion at the wrong height...meaning the cushions have the wrong pitch to them, meaning the body of the cushion is not behind the nose height where it needs to be in order for the cushions to play right....but, if the ARE the K66 cushions, they'll never play right with a sub-rail thickness of 1 3/4".

Just shimming the rails up to raise the nose of the cushions...won't change the downward pitch of the cushions, so all that's going to do is put the nose of the cushions high enough to then start pinching the balls and kill the speed of the balls coming off the rails completely.

Glen
Click to expand...


I assume (in 80%) that I have got K66. It may sound weird that I'm not sure. But they came with table, and everything was instaled when I was away.

Yep, in some places height of nose is at 3,5 cm in others 3,6 cm.

So what will be right height for those rails to be, for not throwing balls in the air ?
 
Hustlin Felice stated he bought a brand new table just a few months ago. Therefore, how can the cushions be incorrect for his table?

If they are incorrect, that means the table was not designed properly at the factory. If there is variation in the cushion nose height (and Felice is sure the variation is not in his measurements), then that is a manufacturing defect, not an installer defect. The cushions are installed at the factory.

I think you should be covered under the table warranty. You bought it brand new, and I'm sure you payed good money for it.
 
BTW, I saw brand new blue label Diamonds do the exact thing your table was at the Southern Classic last year 2012. I was there in person. The balls hopped off the first and even second rail, just like your video. Several of the pro's were complaining about it. The airconditioning was on very cold, but the air felt very wet.
 
iusedtoberich said:
BTW, I saw brand new blue label Diamonds do the exact thing your table was at the Southern Classic last year 2012. I was there in person. The balls hopped off the first and even second rail, just like your video. Several of the pro's were complaining about it. The airconditioning was on very cold, but the air felt very wet.
Click to expand...

Wet air will change badly how any table plays, even a new blue label Diamond or a GC5....it don't matter;)
 
iusedtoberich said:
Hustlin Felice stated he bought a brand new table just a few months ago. Therefore, how can the cushions be incorrect for his table?

If they are incorrect, that means the table was not designed properly at the factory. If there is variation in the cushion nose height (and Felice is sure the variation is not in his measurements), then that is a manufacturing defect, not an installer defect. The cushions are installed at the factory.

I think you should be covered under the table warranty. You bought it brand new, and I'm sure you payed good money for it.
Click to expand...


That's right... I contacted a seller because like you said it is still on warranty.

And it is not a normal thing for cue ball to jumps like so, specialy after hitting second, od third time the rail

I measure the nose of the cushion and it seems that is at 35/36 mm.

I asked in the begining what do you think about Northern Rubber rail, what kind of experience you had with them ?

Because Dynamic Billiards used to use Artemis rail in Dynamic II table, and everything was OK. But then they changed Artemis to Northern Rubber rails, which are made in England and most likely use in snooker I assume.
 
realkingcobra said:
Wet air will change badly how any table plays, even a new blue label Diamond or a GC5....it don't matter;)
Click to expand...


I'm aware of it. So to be sure that it is not a humidity reason, I left dehumidifier in the room for 16 hours and the level of humidity dropped to 48 or 50%, with 20.5 / 21 degrees C. but the rails were still throwing ball in the air :angry: :poke:
 
Hustlin-Felice said:
I'm aware of it. So to be sure that it is not a humidity reason, I left dehumidifier in the room for 16 hours and the level of humidity dropped to 48 or 50%, with 20.5 / 21 degrees C. but the rails were still throwing ball in the air :angry: :poke:
Click to expand...

When the table manufactures start building the sub-rails thicker than 1 11/16" which sets the back of the cushion height, and even thicker, they have to back down on the bevel of the sub-rails which determines the nose height of the cushions. What happens is that starts changing where the body of the cushion is behind the nose height of the cushions, the thicker the sub-rails the more the down hill they start becoming to get that nose height, making the cushions play like the nose height is to low, when in fact it's the correct nose height...it's just that the cushion is not positioned correctly behind that nose height where it's suppose to be. If the back of the cushions are to high, or to low, you can't get the maximum playability from them because they are out of line so to speak. Shimming the rails up to raise up the nose height won't change how the cushions are mounted in relation to the nose height, meaning that will do nothing to reposition the cushion correctly behind the nose of the cushion, all that does is raise up in incorrectly designed sub-rail to a higher nose height. To correct the problem, the rails have to be redesigned to play correctly;)
 
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realkingcobra said:
When the table manufactures start building the sub-rails thicker than 1 11/16" which sets the back of the cushion height, and even thicker, they have to back down on the bevel of the sub-rails which determines the nose height of the cushions. What happens is that starts changing where the body of the cushion is behind the nose height of the cushions, the thicker the sub-rails the more the down hill they start becoming to get that nose height, making the cushions play like the nose height is to low, when in fact it's the correct nose height...it's just that the cushion is not positioned correctly behind that nose height where it's suppose to be. If the back of the cushions are to high, or to low, you can't get the maximum playability from them because they are out of line so to speak. Shimming the rails up to raise up the nose height won't change how the cushions are mounted in relation to the nose height, meaning that will do nothing to reposition the cushion correctly behind the nose of the cushion, all that does is raise up in incorrectly designed sub-rail to a higher nose height. To correct the problem, the rails have to be redesigned to play correctly;)
Click to expand...


So what should I do now, while the table is still on warranty ? Who's fault is it the guys who assembled table, or company which built it ?
 
Hustlin-Felice said:
I assume (in 80%) that I have got K66. It may sound weird that I'm not sure. But they came with table, and everything was instaled when I was away.

Yep, in some places height of nose is at 3,5 cm in others 3,6 cm.

So what will be right height for those rails to be, for not throwing balls in the air ?
Click to expand...

All dynamic tables have K55 cushion profile. 100 percent sure :thumbup:
 
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