Aiming with English

A

AceHigh

Banned
When you have a shot that requires you to hit the cueball off center, how do you aim?

1. Do you get down on the shot applying center ball.

or

2. Do you get down and apply the English right away.


I've asked a few people, and have received various responses. So it seems that it's different for each person. However, as always, each person tends to think their way is best.
 
AceHigh said:
When you have a shot that requires you to hit the cueball off center, how do you aim?

1. Do you get down on the shot applying center ball.

or

2. Do you get down and apply the English right away.


I've asked a few people, and have received various responses. So it seems that it's different for each person. However, as always, each person tends to think their way is best.
Click to expand...


Some do #1 all the time, Some do #2 all the time, Some do #1 or #2 depending on the situation (shot)

I would suggest doing a search on english, aiming, PE, and BHE and you will get enough posts to keep you reading for at least a week.
 
For me to accurately compensate I always get down on the ball already applying the english. The cue is parallel to the line it would be on for center ball, but is offset in the direction the english is applied. I find this absolutely neccesary for accuracy, and if miss a shot with spin it is frequently because I adjust after getting down, and the cue was no longer parallel with the line of the shot.

I've heard of backhand english, doesn't work for me, this does.
 
I always aim with the english applied. Ive experimented with backhand english, tuck and roll etc....... but for me it doesnt seem consistant enough to put all my faith in.
Chuck
 
VERY complex subject. If you ask 10 people, you will get 12 answers!

Many who answer may not actually do what they think they do.

Having said that, I think that few would disagree that the positioning of the body is part of the aiming process. In other words, it is not recommended to set up to the shot in any certain "default" body position and THEN decide how you are going to stroke the shot while making the necessary physical adjustments after you are down over the shot.

Stated yet another way, you should decide before you get down on the shot, what the required OB path must be and how you will cue the shot to send it along that required line.

That suggests that any use of english should be decided upon before bending over the shot.

If, once over the shot, it simply doesn't look right given your existing body position, you should get back up, reassess the shot, make any mental adjustments and get back down over it.

Regards,
Jim
 
if im using parallel english i line up where im going to hit the ball right away......i aim by imagining a line going from center of the cueball to the spot on the objectball i want to hit, but the whole time my cue is aimed at where im hitting the ball, then i make tiny adjustements for swerve.
 
av84fun said:
VERY complex subject. If you ask 10 people, you will get 12 answers!
Click to expand...

And here I am to offer my 2 answers and a disclaimer...

1. I usually apply English to my shot, as I'm lining up. If I intend to use English, I seldom use a practice stroke. Instead, I focus on my shot and when I am ready, I shoot.

2. Sometimes, when I don't see that English is required to do what I want to do... like maybe leave myself another shot... I make a few practice strokes and just as I make contact with the cue ball at about center, I realize I need left or right and I adjust for what I call my 'last minute English'.

The interesting thing about my last minute English is that I usually make the shot. The only time I don't make the shot, is when I was second-guessing myself right as I was making the shot.

If my right hand is numb at the time, all bets are off, about whether I will make ANY shot work. :( I have zero to very little control, when my hand goes numb.
 
Squirt & Spin

I just put this up on youtube last night and would like some real pool players to look it over. It really wasn't 100% ready to put up but I figure to get some feedback now before its completely ready. Feel free to offer any kind of feedback, good or bad you won't hurt my feelings. and may save me from making some mistakes.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=24DC30773D56323B

I just posted same thing in the straight pool section cuz a thread entilted twisted english caught my eye.
 
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Joe T said:
I just put this up on youtube last night and would like some real pool players to look it over. It really wasn't 100% ready to put up but I figure to get some feedback now before its completely ready. Feel free to offer any kind of feedback, good or bad you won't hurt my feelings. and may save me from making some mistakes.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...DC30773D56323B

I just posted same thing in the straight pool section cuz a thread entilted twisted english caught my eye.
Click to expand...

The thing I liked least was that the link was dead! (-:
 
AceHigh said:
When you have a shot that requires you to hit the cueball off center, how do you aim?

1. Do you get down on the shot applying center ball.

or

2. Do you get down and apply the English right away.


I've asked a few people, and have received various responses. So it seems that it's different for each person. However, as always, each person tends to think their way is best.
Click to expand...

Read this:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=94637

I would say, try for the BHE, aiming center ball first. If this don't work, try FHE, also aiming center ball first (check the link above to read how you do this). If this also don't work well. Then you should try parallel (#2), applying english right away.

Normally BHE will compensate around 100% of the squirt, depends on the pivot point. So you should try this first. FHE will compensate around 50% of the squirt. So there will be lesser squirt to compensate. If both don't work. Than parallel is your way to go. It will compansate 0% of the squirt. So you need to learn how the squirt works.
 
There's no such thing as "parallel english"

Somebody:
if miss a shot with spin it is frequently because I adjust after getting down, and the cue was no longer parallel with the line of the shot.
Click to expand...

If your cue is parallel with the line of the shot (the intended cue ball path), you'll probably miss the shot. Unless the amount of swerve in the shot just happens to exactly match the amount of squirt in the shot, you must align your cue at an angle from the intended path of the CB.

Somebody else:
if im using parallel english
Click to expand...

You're not using "parallel english"; there's no such thing. What's parallel with what?

pj
chgo
 
henho said:
For me to accurately compensate I always get down on the ball already applying the english. The cue is parallel to the line it would be on for center ball, but is offset in the direction the english is applied. I find this absolutely neccesary for accuracy, and if miss a shot with spin it is frequently because I adjust after getting down, and the cue was no longer parallel with the line of the shot.

I've heard of backhand english, doesn't work for me, this does.
Click to expand...

I concur totally.
 
i do both.
for some reason with me,bhe works well especially when using draw but not so much when using follow.
so when using follow i quarter the ball up,deem where a centerball hit would be then adjust to what english i'm using.
 
Joe T said:
I just put this up on youtube last night and would like some real pool players to look it over. It really wasn't 100% ready to put up but I figure to get some feedback now before its completely ready. Feel free to offer any kind of feedback, good or bad you won't hurt my feelings. and may save me from making some mistakes.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=24DC30773D56323B

I just posted same thing in the straight pool section cuz a thread entilted twisted english caught my eye.
Click to expand...

Joe, thanks for listening to my request a while ago! Very few instructional materials that I've seen go into any detail about how to line up and apply a shot with English. They just assume that somehow you end up hitting the cue ball off-center. I said, wouldn't it be great if Joe did a video on it!
 
havoc said:
i do both.
for some reason with me,bhe works well especially when using draw but not so much when using follow.
so when using follow i quarter the ball up,deem where a centerball hit would be then adjust to what english i'm using.
Click to expand...

If you read carefully what Patrick Johnson said, than you will know why it works especially using draw and not using follow. The most important part is, from Patrick: "Unless the amount of swerve in the shot just happens to exactly match the amount of squirt".

Let me explain. When most peoples talk about using english, they will mention deflection (squirt). But they forgot swerve. When you are using left english, the CB will squirt to the right, but swerve will move the CB to the left. In reality, we only see the CB go to the right direction, because the squirt are higher than the swerve. How can you apply maximum CB swerve? Exactly! Hitting above center. When you are using follow, you are applying unconscious swerve. To explain it more simple. When you are hitting low left, the CB will go to the right. When you are hitting high left, the CB tend to go to the left. I've experiment this with a few peoples and by myself. And this looks to be true.

The conclusion is (with a regular deflection shaft):
1) Hitting left, the CB go right.
2) Hitting low left, the CB go even more to the right.
3) Hitting high left, the CB goes a little to the left
 
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Joe T said:
I just put this up on youtube last night and would like some real pool players to look it over. It really wasn't 100% ready to put up but I figure to get some feedback now before its completely ready. Feel free to offer any kind of feedback, good or bad you won't hurt my feelings. and may save me from making some mistakes.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=24DC30773D56323B

I just posted same thing in the straight pool section cuz a thread entilted twisted english caught my eye.
Click to expand...

Joe, you do a great service for pool players, as we've come to expect from you. I sent you a PM with more detail, but I also want to mention here a couple of comments about your videos for the thread readers:

1. Clean and dry conditions do indeed increase the total effect of squirt, but what really happens is that only swerve is reduced. The amount of squirt (the initial squirt angle) doesn't change, but because swerve is less the total "squirt effect" is more. You may have meant this, but I couldn't be sure.

2. The different methods of squirt compensation you describe, fronthand english (FHE), backhand english (BHE) and parallel english (PE) don't actually produce different amounts of squirt; they simply compensate by different amounts. BHE might appear to reduce squirt, but actually just compensates a lot. FHE might appear to increase squirt, but actually just compensates less. PE might appear to produce "mad amounts" of squirt, but actually just doesn't compensate at all. The squirt in all these cases is the same; it's the amount of compensation that changes. [By the way, thanks for helping me in my crusade to do away with the mistaken idea of "parallel english".]

Again, thanks for the videos and I hope these comments are helpful.

pj
chgo
 
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Great explanation videos Joe. Just a few corrections :-) When you use FHE..you should not use the word pivot. You are shifting the bridge hand NOT pivoting.

I have also been studying & trying to understand how to best apply English with a low deflection shaft and also have it all make sense from a physics point a view. Your examples are bang on with my conclusions. Its best to use a little of FHE & BHE when you use a low deflection shaft. The reason is that really low deflection shafts can have a pivot point longer than the cue! ie off the end of the cue. Its essentially impossible to pivot the cue at the pivot point using any type of english...even BHE. When you are using both FHE and BHE...you are really pivoting about a point longer than the cue. Shepard's paper or squirt (http://www.sfbilliards.com/shepard_squirt.pdf) shows a low deflection cue might have a pivot point at 97"(see table 1). Most cues are 58". Make sense? Thanks again for the great videos!
 
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