Questions for you custom cue players

I see this is your 1st post. There are quite a few very good cuemakers here on the site and many of them can make you a very good shooter well within your limits pricewise. It doesn't take a lot of inlays and such to make a cue play well. At that point you are buying looks, Take your time and hang out here and see what the different guys have to offer. I'm sure you can find a cue you'll be very pleased with.

TheAggressor said:

Looking to upgrade my equipment to something that will last a while. I have been looking at and testing production cues around the $650-$750 range. With this price range it got me thinking. If I just saved (or gambled) up a couple more hundred I could buy a lower-end or used custom. I have been doing some research but still have lots of questions. Replies from a few of you who do play with custom cues would be great.

I want a cue that will move the ball nicely around the table and give me feedback. A real playing cue, not just a collector’s item. Will a mid-range custom cue out perform a high-end production?
Did you play with the cue before investing $1,200+ or did you just trust the brand name?
Where do you purchase custom cues? I can’t seem to find direct websites for a lot of the cue makers.
Staying in the $1,200 or under range what are some of my options? Used in good shape is fine by me.

Thanks for your time .

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Here are my thoughts.

1.) Try before you buy. I always let people hit a few balls with any of my cues. Even if I don't know them. Going to Derby City or SBE and hitting with a few cues will tell you what you like and don't like.

2.) IMO, Rick Howard cues are the best value of incredible playing cues for the least amount of money. But there are others and folks will spout a lot of cuemakers with some bias, but if you do Step #1 then Step #2 is easier.

3.) Look at used customs, I have some pretty nice cues, in the past I have made pretty good money buying used customs and sending them out for refinish or new shafts, etc. I end up with nice cues at very low $$, just takes a little more time.


I wish you the best of rolls,

Ken

I think "custom " is going to get you a lot of different responses. Some people consider 'custom' if you consider your specifiic details sent to a maker and then get it made to your specs. I consider it a custom cue if made by a maker that doesn't make production cues. It may not be custom to your specs but it was made a certain way for someone...still custom. There are loads of great cues and cue makers out there. If you want a great playing cue for the range that you're speaking of you can get one that will play just as well as one that costs upwards of a grand or more....all of that extra money comes from the work put into it, cost of ivory if you get that, inlays, etc. I would suggest a nice Frey sneaky, a Keith Josey, a Pierce, or Diveney. I think all four of those are very affordable and excellent players cues. I've hit with 3 of the 4, Pierce being the only one I haven't but hear nothing but positive reviews. Josey is easily my favorite and will do all of the things you ask it to...very well I might add. If you want to spend thousands they will oblige...any of them will make you whatever you ask for and will charge you accordingly...but, you won't get a better playing cue by adding thousands to the bill....In my opinion. You will get loads of opinions. Good luck and enjoy whatever cue go with...there aren't many bad choices you'll hear from folks on AZ.

I've had probably around 40 custom cues over the past 2 years, and I probably only tried 10 of them out before I bought them. I definitely think customs are a better way to go as far as play, looks, and resell. Do research, and take a look at cuemakers that are highly respected and seem to have a fair resell value in case you don't like it.

These are just my personal opinions obviously, but as long as you get a fair deal on a custom cue you should be able to get most of your money back. I can't say the same for production cues. You probably lose 50% as soon as you hit a ball with the majority of production cues. Schon and Mezz hold better resell value then any production cues I'd say.

Here's some cues that you can get used for $1,200 and under, and can recoup most of your money(IMO) on if you decide you want to try something else: Andy Gilbert, Jeff Olney, Sugartree, Capone, Bluegrass(Richard Harris), Barnhart, Sly, and Blackcreek. Plenty of others also, but these are right off the top of my head. Couple of those guys have taken knocks on their rep, but still make a great cue at an affordable price.

TheAggressor said:

Thanks for the feedback Ken! Regaurding #2; That's the reason I didn't ask "what cue maker makes the best custom cue?". I'm well aware in the end it comes down to personal preference. Just like I hate when people ask me what tip they should be using.. I just wanted general feedback of the value of a custom over a "non-production". Also, thanks for the recommendation. I'll do some research on Rick Howard.

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I meant to add Rick to the list, another awesome hitting and playing cue. You can order a new sneaky from him for the range you're talking about I believe. A friend of mind just sold him back an Ebony sneaky to help fund a cue he's having Rick build. He might still have it. Send him a message.

You can buy a great playing used custom for anywhere between 300-1000. I've scored many deals on craigslist too. I used to buy, sell and trade cues a bunch, but I'm down to one cue and one case at this point (RC3 and a 1x2).

It's fun to see how differently some cues feel and play, but I'm not picky. I'll shoot with a house cue if the tip is decent. I'm getting to the point where I'm ready to own one nice player, maybe a j/b cue, and one plain cue to take to the bars, or loan to friends.

It will save you headache and money in the long run to buy one good cue and stick with it. If you want a nice production cue, the old schons are great, and they hold their value. If you want a fancy custom made just for you, 1200 will get you something nice, but you'll have to wait for the build time. 1200 on the used market will go a long way as well.

As for custom made vs. production, it boils down to this; there are very well made and very poorly made cues that fall under each category. Find what you like.

This thread is going to end up a lot like asking which tip is best. You'll get every name possible. There are quite a few cuemakers whose cues I have not tried. Adding to the names you have already heard that I have tried, I would also consider Jack Madden.

You'll need to decide for yourself what type of feedback you want. I have only purchased 3 cues that I did not try first. Two were custom orders. The other was a no-brainer.

Good luck. Have fun.

Players Cue

TheAggressor said:

Looking to upgrade my equipment to something that will last a while. I have been looking at and testing production cues around the $650-$750 range. With this price range it got me thinking. If I just saved (or gambled) up a couple more hundred I could buy a lower-end or used custom. I have been doing some research but still have lots of questions. Replies from a few of you who do play with custom cues would be great.

I want a cue that will move the ball nicely around the table and give me feedback. A real playing cue, not just a collector’s item. Will a mid-range custom cue out perform a high-end production?
Did you play with the cue before investing $1,200+ or did you just trust the brand name?
Where do you purchase custom cues? I can’t seem to find direct websites for a lot of the cue makers.
Staying in the $1,200 or under range what are some of my options? Used in good shape is fine by me.

Thanks for your time .

Edit: I guess my most basic question is; Is a custom cue worth the extra money if all you care about is playability?

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Its easy to see you really dont know what you want yet. I would say some work on figuring out what configuration of shaft you want is in store.

I would recommend something about 12.80 or 12.90 with a 15 inch pro taper with plastic composition ferrule that about 1/2 inch or so wide or less. and of a dense stiff maple.

This type of shaft will squirt balls at about 2 in for a 7 diamond distance which to me is acceptable.

Youre design is yours to do but I would have it thinner in the butt rather than thicker so you can easily wrap your hand around it with a thread wrap you can add leather later if you want it.

You can find cues like this until you know more and you can find cues like this for $400 if you look. They will just be plain janes.

Mike Gulyassy will make you a fantastic and truly special player for that much. I've also been VERY impressed by Pat Diveney cues at around that price point...especially his full splice.

I'm a huge fan of Jerry Rauenzahn old school cues and currently play with one he made me for about $2,000. He makes a helluva cue for your price point, too.

All that said, you can get a higher end Schon at that price; my Schon is over 20 years old and hits as good and is as straight as the day it came off the lathe. You'll NEVER go wrong with a Schon (depending on whether or not you consider them custom or production).

When You Buy Blind, It's a Coin Flip Outcome.

Unless you have tried different custom cue-makers and seen and felt the difference in these cues, just picking a name blindly is very risky. I ordered my Owen cue blind because I couldn't find any locally to try.......it turned out to be just about my best hitting cue until the Prewitt cue arrived. But I gave Bob the specs to follow when he built my custom cue.

I did try a Prewitt cue a couple of years ago and was favorably impressed with the cue. However, I just bought my Prewitt cue in December and hadn't hit with one of Ed's cues in the last three years....and this cue is absolutely amazing and Ed's reputation as a cue-maker is platinum......as is Mr. Owen's rep......and Jerry Rauenzahn too. I ordered my Bushka cue from Jerry R. which is due to be finished end of 1st qtr......and I've never hit with a Jerry R. cue. Nonetheless, he is making the cue to the exact cue specifications I furnished like my other cues. I have every confidence the cue will play great since it has identical specs as my other flat ivory joint cues.


If you decide to order a cue blind, make sure you have dialed in your cue specs tight....I mean the shafts (ferrules, tips, mm size, taper length, cue butt weight, tips, etc. At least this way the cue would get made the way you want it and not the way the cue-maker typically makes a cue. This will at least ensure the cue specs will not be a factor in your final determination of how well the cue performs in your hands. I've done this several times already and every cue has turned out absolutely perfect.

Matt B.

There is no performance advantage of a "custom" cue vs a production cue. Every production cuemaker started out in a garage, making "custom" cues. In fact, I think the term custom cue gets tossed around in such a way, that it doesn't mean anything. A custom suit means the tailor measured you, let you choose the fabric, and helped you pick out a style that works for you. Most custom cues have been passed around so many times, that I think the "custom" aspect is long gone.

Any production maker can make a cue the way you want it done. Do you think a guy that makes 50 cues per year has access to better wood than a place that throws out more than he could use in a year? As Dan Janes said to me one time, if you were getting laser surgery for your eyes, do you want the guy who does 100 surgeries a year, and has been in the business for 5 years, or the guy that does 10,000 a year, and has been doing them since day 1? You get "bragging rights" from owning a custom cue. I used to have a bunch of them. What do I have in my bag these days? A Tiger hustler, a Viking, and a McDermott. If anything happens to any of those cues, I can have them replaced in a week, and not the ungodly wait times that some custom makers have.

I've never had to endure bullsh!t at the hands of production cue makers. They treat their profession as a career, and not a pastime. Pechauer, Joss, Viking, OB, etc, deserve to have their cues mentioned in the same breath as Searing, Tascarella, etc. They've been doing it longer than most of the custom guys. I think the high end makers make some beautiful wood, but they aren't going to perform any better than the good quality production cues. Otherwise, if there were a distinct and known advantage to a particular cue's use, the guys making their money from pool would all be using them. You'd see every non sponsored player using custom maker X.

Cory Deuel used to have a Scruggs when he was coming up. Had a Predator shaft on it. Signed a deal with Viking. Cue had a Predator shaft on it. Then went to a 5280 import cue - with a Predator shaft. Then a Woodpecker/Jacoby - with Predator shaft. Now, he's batting with some unknown butt (think it's an OB custom) with an OB+ Pro shaft. And his play has never taken any major hit or rise as a result of switching from a Scruggs to an imported 5280. The shaft is the business end of the cue. My Viking and McDermott have a lifetime warranty against warpage. And I can get standard off the shelf shafts for them - Predator, OB, etc, at nearly every brick and mortar, or online.

If you want something pretty to look at, and retain some value, buy a custom. If you're looking for a good playing cue, with some options, grab a production cue from a place with a good reputation, and buy a pile of shafts for it. With the money you say you have, you could buy a used Schon, and grab a pile of aftermarket shafts. Or an OB with a few shafts. Or a Predator cue with some shafts.

TheAggressor said:

...I guess my most basic question is; Is a custom cue worth the extra money if all you care about is playability?

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Welcome to the forum.

The feel of a cue is an intensely personal thing. Since you are interested strictly in a cue to be used as a "player" you can get hundreds of replies to your question and none of them will do you any real good.

It also means, custom versus production is largely irrelevant. Try lots of cues to find one that has what you're looking for: the ability for you to move the ball around and provide you with feedback.

But here's some important advice that also may save you a lot of money. Try different tips first.

Best of luck and let us know what you decide.

Just so you know, of the many names listed so far in this thread most are not even active participants here on the forum. The point of my earlier post was to steer you in the direction of some of the regulars and up and comers in cuemaking. These guys are talking the talk and walking the walk paying their dues, while many of the big names with high prices are in some cases coasting now on their big names and high prices. There are many cuemakers here on this site with great knowledge and skill that you can really get a bargain buying cues from.

I have never used a production cue as the area I came up in had some of the most iconic cue makers ever making cues where I lived. Also there are so many combinations of joints, pins, ferrules and tips that in their different combinations produce a plethora of different types of hits. For great feedback I like a 5/16x14 stainless steel joint & 1" linen based Micarta ferrules, but that's me. 20 other guys here will give you 20 different answers that will vary from mine. Who's right? Well no one as everybody likes what they like. You might want to try out varying different combos to find out what you like & then make a decision. I'm partial to Bob Frey or Tim Scruggs cues, more so Frey.