Focal point and alignment

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
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When we look at a point in the distance, each eye is focusing on that point, creating 2 focal perspectives, 2 lines -- one from the left eye to the point and one from the right eye to the point And if we were to walk toward that point, we would walk a line that lies between these 2 perspectives. Let's call this our focus line. With no dominant eye, the focus line would be perfectly centered between our 2 focal perspective lines. If you're right-eye dominant or left-eye dominant the focus line would be closer to that particular perspective line than in the center. But it doesn't matter because you will still walk the straight focus line to the point.

Now apply this to pool.....I focus on a specific point on the OB. Whether I consciously realize it or not, there are 2 focal perspectives lines (left eye, right eye) and one focus line. As long as I align my cue stroke with this focus line, I'm perfectly aligned to my focal point. Now all I have to do is place this alignment directly through the center of the CB to ensure I send it straight to my focal point.

Where does dominant eye fit in?
 

Rackattach

Banned
You are 100% correct in what you're saying, the only variable that will vary for every single person, is the subconscious adjustments that your brain automatically makes from repetition and playing for a long time. Therefore, it does not fit in in your circumstance because your subconscious and brain are already auto correcting for this through years of practice and play. It would really only apply to a brand new person that's relatively new to the game.

Every persons vision center is different and either the body(stoke) or brain/eyes alignment is adjusting for any error between the two visual lines.
 

Michael S

Registered
Good morning,

What I've noticed for me is when I start core to core (CB and OB), I move slowly to the left or right--depending upon which perception and sweep, I begin to see the center to edge line first then the other line next. Once I've "locked in" and I inadvertently move, I lose the perception. Sometimes if I'm not sure, I start back at core to core. Sometimes on the "harder" shots, I have to start over a couple of times before I get the correct perception. The difficult thing is for me to get the perceptions at longer distances. At longer distances, the shift to get the perception is smaller thus I move slower and shift my body less to get the desired perception. Try getting a perception playing on a 5/10 snooker table! Tough!

After a while (I've been using CTE since 2013) with CTE, viewing the perceptions are more automatic (in my case 15 and 30 perceptions). The subconscious takes over.

Everyone has their talents on what they are seeing. Some people can see those lines immediately and others take a little more time (me) but once locked in--result? No missing...

The perceptions lead you to the "shot line".
 
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One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When we look at a point in the distance, each eye is focusing on that point, creating 2 focal perspectives, 2 lines -- one from the left eye to the point and one from the right eye to the point And if we were to walk toward that point, we would walk a line that lies between these 2 perspectives. Let's call this our focus line. With no dominant eye, the focus line would be perfectly centered between our 2 focal perspective lines. If you're right-eye dominant or left-eye dominant the focus line would be closer to that particular perspective line than in the center. But it doesn't matter because you will still walk the straight focus line to the point.

Now apply this to pool.....I focus on a specific point on the OB. Whether I consciously realize it or not, there are 2 focal perspectives lines (left eye, right eye) and one focus line. As long as I align my cue stroke with this focus line, I'm perfectly aligned to my focal point. Now all I have to do is place this alignment directly through the center of the CB to ensure I send it straight to my focal point.

Where does dominant eye fit in?

Interesting topic Brian.
The problem isn't so much with which eye is strongest. The problem is in keeping a straight focus line while getting into the standing position and then getting down into the shooting position.

Try this, Lay your cue diagonally across the table with it pointing exactly from one corner pocket to the other.

Stand square behind the butt of the cue pointing at your belly button. Shift your body from one side to the other until your eyes say you are on a straight focus line.
When closing either eye you will notice that the focus line you see will not change, it will still be straight in.

Here is where the issue starts, and you can test this yourself, now from a standing position turn your body so as to get ready to get down into the shoot position while not losing the straight in focus line. See what a mean?

Some players, even though they can see the straight in focus line clearly, lose the straight in focus line when they turn their body (standing position) to get down into the shooting position. Or they will get into a stance that takes their eyes off of the straight in focus point and when they bend down into the shooting position the eyes will come back to the straight in focus point. (this is not a good practice)
I'll post a training video demonstrating this issue. Have to go find it. :)
Not exactly the video I was looking for but should help explain the above https://youtu.be/YGCh1IMIQJw?t=854

If your strongest eye is your right eye when bending over the cue, the cue will end up somewhere between your right eye pupil and the bridge of your nose. For me, the cue naturally lines up between the bridge of my nose and my right eye tear duct.

John
 
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goettlicher

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The majority of people have what is called Binocular Vision.
This means that their both eyes converge into one line at about 30 inches.
One picture (upside down). The brain makes it right.
It is called Triangular Vision.


Starting on that Vision Center is paramount for all aiming systems.

randyg
 

BC21

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Silver Member
...........

Not exactly the video I was looking for but should help explain the above https://youtu.be/YGCh1IMIQJw?t=854

If your strongest eye is your right eye when bending over the cue, the cue will end up somewhere between your right eye pupil and the bridge of your nose. For me, the cue naturally lines up between the bridge of my nose and my right eye tear duct.

John

That's a great video. It just goes further into specific body alignment, rather than just stroke alignment.

I am mainly talking about the same visual alignment process needed to throw a ball at a distant target. We focus on the target with two eyes, each eye drawing a straight bead to the target. Our brain gets two different perspectives (one from left eye and one from right eye), separated simply by the distance between our pupils. The main focus line is somewhere in-between these two perspectives. If we want to throw the ball straight to our target, our arm has to be positioned in a manner to allow the ball to go straight down the main focus line when released from our grip. Shooting pool is the same way, in that we must ensure our stroke arm sends the cue stick straight down the main focal line (through CCB) to the target.

This is a simple process, though it requires a little bit of skill before we get any good at it, and that goes for throwing a ball or stroking a cue stick. Body stance is important only in relation to getting our swing arm or stroke arm positioned properly in order to send the ball or cue straight along the focus line to the target.

Eye dominance only becomes an issue if you're a right-handed player with a left dominant eye (or vice versa). This is because the main focus line that your brain develops, based on the two different perspective (one from each eye), will be closer to the dominant eye side of your head, not at your nose. So for your stroke to be on this focus line (actually directly under this line :wink:) your cue stick would be slightly to the right or left of your nose. It would be right under your nose only if you have no dominant eye skewing the main focus line to the left or right in favor of the dominant eye's perspective.

The actual body positioning is only relevant in the process of ensuring the stroke arm or throw arm movement isn't hampered by the rest of the body. Get the body out of the way to allow proper arm movement directly in line with our vision/head.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Good morning,

What I've noticed for me is when I start core to core (CB and OB), I move slowly to the left or right--depending upon which perception and sweep, I begin to see the center to edge line first then the other line next. Once I've "locked in" and I inadvertently move, I lose the perception. Sometimes if I'm not sure, I start back at core to core. Sometimes on the "harder" shots, I have to start over a couple of times before I get the correct perception. The difficult thing is for me to get the perceptions at longer distances. At longer distances, the shift to get the perception is smaller thus I move slower and shift my body less to get the desired perception. Try getting a perception playing on a 5/10 snooker table! Tough!

After a while (I've been using CTE since 2013) with CTE, viewing the perceptions are more automatic (in my case 15 and 30 perceptions). The subconscious takes over.

Everyone has their talents on what they are seeing. Some people can see those lines immediately and others take a little more time (me) but once locked in--result? No missing...

I'm definitely not talking about CTE "perceptions". Those don't involve focusing on one specific point/target in the distance. I'm talking about a main focus line, one line of aim from CB to OB.
 

stan shuffett

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm definitely not talking about CTE "perceptions". Those don't involve focusing on one specific point/target in the distance. I'm talking about a main focus line, one line of aim from CB to OB.

PRO ONE can be described as one line.

Stan Shuffett
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
The majority of people have what is called Binocular Vision.
This means that their both eyes converge into one line at about 30 inches.
One picture (upside down). The brain makes it right.
It is called Triangular Vision.


Starting on that Vision Center is paramount for all aiming systems.

randyg

Binocular vision is the brain's triangulation process of using each eye's complete field of view to create a good 3D approximation of reality. I say approximation because the brain uses 2D images from two different perspectives, and then it triangulates in order to give us a sense of depth/distance.

Two inverted 2D images are sent to the brain's vision center for processing, each from a different perspective. When we focus on a distance object, the brain triangulates based on the two perspectives and we are able to tell that the object is in the distance.

You can physically do what your brain does:. Close one eye and point at something on the wall on the other side of the room. Keep your finger still, then close that eye and open the other. Naturally your finger will now be pointing left or right of your initial target (depending on which eye you used first). Let's say the shift in perspective, from one eye to the other, created a 1 foot shift along that far wall. Now we can calculate the distance to the wall using similar triangles. Let's say the distance between your pupils is 2.6" and the distance between your eyes and your finger tip is 26". The ratio here is 10:1. Different people will have a different ratio of course, but here's what it looks like......

picture.php
 
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stan shuffett

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes, but not to a distant target on the other side of the CB. If CCB is the target, there is no distant focal point.

The line has a natural, relational extension to or near the OB even though the Cb is absolutely the target.
Proceed, Im out.

Stan Shuffett
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That's a great video. It just goes further into specific body alignment, rather than just stroke alignment.

I am mainly talking about the same visual alignment process needed to throw a ball at a distant target. We focus on the target with two eyes, each eye drawing a straight bead to the target. Our brain gets two different perspectives (one from left eye and one from right eye), separated simply by the distance between our pupils. The main focus line is somewhere in-between these two perspectives. If we want to throw the ball straight to our target, our arm has to be positioned in a manner to allow the ball to go straight down the main focus line when released from our grip. Shooting pool is the same way, in that we must ensure our stroke arm sends the cue stick straight down the main focal line (through CCB) to the target.

This is a simple process, though it requires a little bit of skill before we get any good at it, and that goes for throwing a ball or stroking a cue stick. Body stance is important only in relation to getting our swing arm or stroke arm positioned properly in order to send the ball or cue straight along the focus line to the target.

Eye dominance only becomes an issue if you're a right-handed player with a left dominant eye (or vice versa). This is because the main focus line that your brain develops, based on the two different perspective (one from each eye), will be closer to the dominant eye side of your head, not at your nose. So for your stroke to be on this focus line (actually directly under this line :wink:) your cue stick would be slightly to the right or left of your nose. It would be right under your nose only if you have no dominant eye skewing the main focus line to the left or right in favor of the dominant eye's perspective.

The actual body positioning is only relevant in the process of ensuring the stroke arm or throw arm movement isn't hampered by the rest of the body. Get the body out of the way to allow proper arm movement directly in line with our vision/head.

Set up 10 shots to the left and record your make percentage. Now set up the exact same shots on the other side of the table so that they are cuts to the right. Record your make percentage.

Odds are the percentages are a ways apart. Why do you think that is?
 

BC21

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The line has a natural, relational extension to or near the OB even though the Cb is absolutely the target.
Proceed, Im out.

Stan Shuffett

Oh, I'm sorry.....in that respect you're exactly right. In fact, I believe some players actually use an OB focus line to doublecheck their CTE sweeps or pivots, as a learning aide to making sure their CCB solution looks right.
 

BC21

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Set up 10 shots to the left and record your make percentage. Now set up the exact same shots on the other side of the table so that they are cuts to the right. Record your make percentage.

Odds are the percentages are a ways apart. Why do you think that is?

I don't have that problem. I did the Colenso potting test a couple months ago and got a 34 on right cuts and 25 on left, total of 59. About a week or later later I did it again and got 30 on right cuts and 32 on left. I've determined it's a matter of PSR for me, raising my head on some shots like I'm in a hurry. Even my BCA team captain mentioned that I raised up while shooting the 8 in my last game Thursday night. It rattled, but dropped. I told him I appreciated the post-shot coaching, and that's probably why I'm currently ranked #1, lol.:thumbup: But I know he's right, and I have to work on it.
 

BC21

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Here is an article on human vision that some may enjoy reading.

http://toptechgolf.com/index.php?page=about&sub=parallax

John

Awesome info!!!! I played golf Friday and used my old 2-ball Odyssey putter.....and here I thought I was just having an off day! Lol. No more of that putter from here on out!

I believe this whole alignment thing is a learned skill. Most people can't throw a ball consistently toward a target (like a dunk tank) unless they've developed the skill to do it. Once developed, they automatically know where to place their body, including feet placement, to allow their throwing arm to release the ball on line to the target.

A pool stroke should work the same way. Once the fundamental skills of stance and stroke are developed, a player should be able to pick a spot on the rail or on an OB, or CCB, or anywhere else, and automatically be able to align their cue stick along the focal line that leads to that spot. Of course, this is only once they realize whether or not their particular visual focus is dead between the eyes or skewed left or right in favor of a more dominant eye.
 
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Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't have that problem. I did the Colenso potting test a couple months ago and got a 34 on right cuts and 25 on left, total of 59. About a week or later later I did it again and got 30 on right cuts and 32 on left. I've determined it's a matter of PSR for me, raising my head on some shots like I'm in a hurry. Even my BCA team captain mentioned that I raised up while shooting the 8 in my last game Thursday night. It rattled, but dropped. I told him I appreciated the post-shot coaching, and that's probably why I'm currently ranked #1, lol.:thumbup: But I know he's right, and I have to work on it.

Never mind, not worth it....
 
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BC21

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If your fundamentals are off, you can't yet determine that you don't also hav that problem.

So.....why is it that so many others do have that problem?

I'm not sure, but it's interesting. Especially the toptechgolf article One Pocket John provided in a previous post. Good stuff.

I just got to thinking how the brain uses 2D images, each from a slightly different angle of perspective, to create a makeshift 3D. It's often called 2D+ instead of 3D. Then I got to thinking about how a person can measure how far away a distant object is by simply pointing and using the shifting perspective between the eyes. And I thought....."hmmmm.....knowing this, how in the world can a dominant eye affect the focal point or the straight line our brain provides as a visual to the focal point?"

The only thing I can see is that the straight line visual to the focal point is either dead center between the eyes or slighty left or right if a dominant eye is causing the brain to skew the final picture it creates from the two perspectives. Finding that slight skew is probably the secret to ensuring your stroke is really on the right line toward that distant target/focal point.
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To consistently make shots with the same make percentage to the left as to the right. one has to utilize their vision center. Which simply put, means that they have to be able to see a straight line as straight.

Most pool players do not do that. Which is why they prefer shooting to one side over the other side. Their make percentage drops significantly to the weaker side.

Everyone's vision center is unique to themselves, and actually changes with the eyes being tired. The dominant eye may relax when tired, or may actually take over and the mind mostly block from the weaker eye when tired. Which is why one should check their vision center throughout a long tournament or match play.

So, where you should place your cue under your eyes depends on where it needs to be to see a straight line as straight. Most will favor closer to the dominate eye than center of the face. Head tilt will also change seeing a line as straight. Another place consistency comes into play.

An easy test to check to see if you see a line as straight is just to take a thick book, and a thinner book. Put a line of tape on each cover, and lay them next to each other to form a straight line with the tape. Now get back and bend over, and see where you have to be to see that tape line as straight.

Another quick check while at a room, is to take an extra shaft, lay it on the table under your shaft while bent over in shooting position. Look down at your shaft without moving your head side to side, and see if you can see both shafts or only one shaft. You should see equal parts of the shaft on the table on each side of your shooting shaft if you can see the shaft under your shooting shaft. If you don't, you are off to one side and not centered with your eyes.

As to the body alignment, that is just as important. Once you have your cue on the shot line, and your eyes on the shot line, your body has to be in position to augument the two together and not be forced or uncomfortable. And, one has to learn to find that position very reliably consistently. Mark Wilson has a lot on this in his book. This is why instructors cover fundamentals so strenuously. Without proper fundamentals, everything else is a crap shoot.
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
When we look at a point in the distance, each eye is focusing on that point, creating 2 focal perspectives, 2 lines -- one from the left eye to the point and one from the right eye to the point And if we were to walk toward that point, we would walk a line that lies between these 2 perspectives. Let's call this our focus line. With no dominant eye, the focus line would be perfectly centered between our 2 focal perspective lines. If you're right-eye dominant or left-eye dominant the focus line would be closer to that particular perspective line than in the center. But it doesn't matter because you will still walk the straight focus line to the point.

Now apply this to pool.....I focus on a specific point on the OB. Whether I consciously realize it or not, there are 2 focal perspectives lines (left eye, right eye) and one focus line. As long as I align my cue stroke with this focus line, I'm perfectly aligned to my focal point. Now all I have to do is place this alignment directly through the center of the CB to ensure I send it straight to my focal point.

Where does dominant eye fit in?

A right-hander player who steps forward in the stance with their left foot--unless they really twist/rotate their neck over the line--will naturally have their left eye closer to the cue ball/object ball then their right eye. Glancing down at the cue stick gives a parallax view for many of these players.

The problem you describe may be seen by holding a knuckle under one eye then rotating your head as if stepping forward into the pool stance. The knuckle seems to move but doesn't, like an aimed cut shot.

The work needed to reconcile the converging lines of the eyes--and to account for the fact that the stick is on a different line--is to find the spot on your face that when held over the line makes a straight shot look STRAIGHT and then "be there" for all shots.

The great Tom Simpson explained it simply. A higher or lower stance moves the head laterally, not just vertically. Find the stance height where a perfectly straight shot looks straight, your "vision center". Stand your vision center over every shot!

For most right-handed players who use a fairly traditional stance (left foot ahead) their vision center lies between their nose and right eye. Putting their left eye/dominant eye over the cue stick would ruin their shot making and send them to a chiropractor for neck adjustments.

"Dominant eye" and "chin over stick" have some validity for some players but need to be contextualized.
 
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