Best all around player ever?

Ak Guy · Mar 26, 2017

So Dennis is all the rage now it seems. Many, including his backers think he is the best.

How would Efren do against him if Efren was in his prime?

Does having a backer effect the out come compared to betting your own cash or tournament play?

Efren certainly made some cash and had some big years and played in some high stakes games.

Is Frost the yard stick, if you get by him your number one for an all around?

How I wish I could wave a wand and turn the clock back.

ideologist · Mar 26, 2017

Efren used to eat Dennis, Scott, Busty, everyone, for breakfast, even past his prime

PoolBum · Mar 26, 2017

Efren's all-around skills are unmatched, IMO. He is arguably the best one-pocket player ever, the best 8-ball player ever, and the best (15-ball) rotation player ever. And he's good enough at 9-ball to beat one of the greatest 9-ball players of all time, Earl Strickland, in two long challenge matches. And as Mike Sigel once said, if he concentrated on straight pool he might have been the best ever at that game as well.

12squared · Mar 26, 2017

Between Harold Worst and Efren.

louieatienza · Mar 26, 2017

Ak Guy said:
So Dennis is all the rage now it seems. Many, including his backers think he is the best.

How would Efren do against him if Efren was in his prime?

Does having a backer effect the out come compared to betting your own cash or tournament play?

Efren certainly made some cash and had some big years and played in some high stakes games.

Is Frost the yard stick, if you get by him your number one for an all around?

How I wish I could wave a wand and turn the clock back.

When Efren first came to the US he didn't even know that pool was a "sport" here. Even changed his name because he was already well known as a money player. Tournament wise, he's made 5-figures a year the last 20-something years or so, including a 6-year run of 6-figures a year. DCC "Master of the Table" 5 times. Even plays 3-cushion and balkline well... And he routinely made some of the craziest shots, under pressure, when the big money was on the line...

jay helfert · Mar 26, 2017

Harold Worst, great at all cue sports. Walter Lindrum would probably be second and Efren third.

King T · Mar 26, 2017

Enough said!

PoolBum said:
Efren's all-around skills are unmatched, IMO. He is arguably the best one-pocket player ever, the best 8-ball player ever, and the best (15-ball) rotation player ever. And he's good enough at 9-ball to beat one of the greatest 9-ball players of all time, Earl Strickland, in two long challenge matches. And as Mike Sigel once said, if he concentrated on straight pool he might have been the best ever at that game as well.

He has a Championship in ever discipline, Its not even close.., Efren is King!

W.Earp · Mar 26, 2017

not trying to be difficult... Scott Frost is a fine player, but would he even crack the top 10, or maybe even 20 of all time?

jay helfert · Mar 26, 2017

W.Earp said:
not trying to be difficult... Scott Frost is a fine player, but would he even crack the top 10, or maybe even 20 of all time?

Keep going, lol

cubswin · Mar 26, 2017

http://www.thehypertexts.com/Harold Worst Pool Billiards the Best.htm

Nice article about Harold Worst

cubswin · Mar 26, 2017

W.Earp said:
not trying to be difficult... Scott Frost is a fine player, but would he even crack the top 10, or maybe even 20 of all time?

no, he isn't in the top 20

kkdanamatt · Mar 26, 2017

ideologist said:
Efren used to eat Dennis, Scott, Busty, everyone, for breakfast, even past his prime

Let's not forget that Efren played world class 3-Cushion, Straight Rail Billiards and Balkline. I'm not sure if he ever tried snooker or Chinese 8-Ball.
As far as Scott Frost is concerned, please, do not even mention his name when it comes to the best all-around players.
The only discipline in which Scott can be considered as world class is 1-Pocket.
He can't compete in any other game.

Nick Varner also has to be mentioned as one of the greatest all-around players, having won world titles in 14.1, 8-Ball, 9-Ball, 1-Pocket, and Banks.
In their 1990 9-Ball Challenge Match, Nick defeated Efren 60-47, and that's at the time when Efren was playing lights out 9-Ball.

Ched · Mar 26, 2017

This is a tough one: So many years, so many great players.
ummm ... maybe:
1. Efren
2. Greenleaf
3. Mosconi
4. SVB
5. Sigel

But really tough to argue any order with those ones .. could probably throw in the Miz too. Dennis is good, even great, but I don't think he's quite there yet.

pocketsplitter · Mar 26, 2017

why would Frost be the stick? There are a handful of guys who can take frost in almost every game, but they can't all be the "top all around" if there's more than 1.

rossaroni · Mar 26, 2017

jay helfert said:
Harold Worst, great at all cue sports. Walter Lindrum would probably be second and Efren third.

Walter Lindrum didn't play pool, so i wouldn't think he can he counted.

Now if we were talking about who dominated their specific cue game, them he might be #1.

SMG · Mar 26, 2017

Efren Reyes and Don Willis

/closed

kkdanamatt · Mar 26, 2017

Ched said:
This is a tough one: So many years, so many great players.
ummm ... maybe:
1. Efren
2. Greenleaf
3. Mosconi
4. SVB
5. Sigel

But really tough to argue any order with those ones .. could probably throw in the Miz too. Dennis is good, even great, but I don't think he's quite there yet.

Of your top 5, in my opinion, only Efren is a legitimate choice.
Greenleaf and Mosconi were strictly straight pool champions, because that's the only pocket game that was played for World Titles. SVB also fails to qualify because he has only really excelled in rotation games. Yes, he CAN play 1-Pocket and 14.1 and banks, but there are many players today who are better. Sigel was never at his best playing 1-Pocket and banks. He was, however, a dominant 14.1 and 9-Ball player. Bottom line: when discussing the best all-around players, one must consider world titles as a marker of greatness. In that regard, Varner wins hands down. No doubt that Greenleaf and Mosconi probably would have been great 1-Pocket and 9-Ball players, but they competed in a different era, when those games were not being played for world titles.

WildWing · Mar 26, 2017

All around means just that, all around. You cannot count players, as great as they are, such as Efren and Frost, due to their dedication to games that avoid straight pool. Then, you narrow the field to those who really did play all the games.

Three names:

Harold Worst
Luther Lassiter
Mike Sigel

All the best,
WW

kkdanamatt · Mar 26, 2017

WildWing said:
All around means just that, all around. You cannot count players, as great as they are, such as Efren and Frost, due to their dedication to games that avoid straight pool. Then, you narrow the field to those who really did play all the games.

Three names:

Harold Worst
Luther Lassiter
Mike Sigel

All the best,
WW

Have any of the above three players accomplished what Nick Varner has?
Nick Varner won world titles in 14.1, 8-Ball, 9-Ball, 1-Pocket, and Banks.
In their 1990 9-Ball Challenge Match, Nick defeated Efren 60-47, and that's at the time when Efren was playing lights out 9-Ball. The answer is no.
No one else has won all those titles, except Nick.

JoeyInCali · Mar 26, 2017

kkdanamatt said:
Let's not forget that Efren played world class 3-Cushion, Straight Rail Billiards and Balkline. I'm not sure if he ever tried snooker or Chinese 8-Ball.
As far as Scott Frost is concerned, please, do not even mention his name when it comes to the best all-around players.
The only discipline in which Scott can be considered as world class is 1-Pocket.
He can't compete in any other game.

Nick Varner also has to be mentioned as one of the greatest all-around players, having won world titles in 14.1, 8-Ball, 9-Ball, 1-Pocket, and Banks.
In their 1990 9-Ball Challenge Match, Nick defeated Efren 60-47, and that's at the time when Efren was playing lights out 9-Ball.

Efren played on the Big Bertha table at Hard Times often in the 90's.
He played golf though.
Efren also played English Billiards iirc.

Scott Frost is not even a top 200 in 10-ball today, I think.
I don't think he can beat Cheska Centeno in 9-ball now.
He himself said he's not great on rotation games.
Hell of a 1-pocket player though.

I'd agree with Worst, Efren and Varner as the best overall players.
Alex, Shane and Dennis are knocking on the door.

Best all around player ever?

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