Opinions wanted on clear finishes.

Canadian cue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Does anyone know how the oil prep works with metallic rings? I know that brass will tarnish under the finish if not properly cleaned and sealed. I would also like to know how the oil changes the mechanical properties of the CA.
 

dzcues

newbie
Silver Member
If you have any questions or concerns, hick-ups, whatever, let me know if there's any way I can help you. You openly and willingly share an awful lot with the cue making community. Anything I can do to help you with something would be a pleasure :)

Thanks, Eric. I'll email you for some clarification but it's working out surprisingly well.

My medium CA arrived a day early so I finished the cue this afternoon. After 2 coats of CA, I sanded & polished it & thought it was good to go until I got it under better lighting. There were a few minute ripples that didn't completely come out & were visible only when sighting down the length of the cue into a bright light. I bit the bullet, sanded it again - hard to do on a cue that looks finished - applied 2 more quick coats & polished it out again.

I found the appearance of the finished cue to be every bit as sparkling as auto clear. The joint face is perfectly sharp (finished with sanding arbors) with no chipping anywhere. Time will tell about its durability but I'm seriously rethinking my finishing process.

The attached picture shows the purple heart SP with my mini Hoppe cap (made of pink ivory). The shine is obviously nice. The "chip" at 1:00 from my logo is actually a reflection of my flash from a mirror. The highlights are blown out so it looks funny but there are no chips in the cue anywhere. I also noted that there were absolutely zero signs of sanding marks anywhere under the finish. I hate it when these appear but even with aggressive sanding, the CA apparently bleeds into the existing coats quite nicely.

BTW, I took the finish cut on this cue yesterday, mid afternoon. I installed the joint pin, finished the threads for the weight bolt, cut the logo & filled it with black. It is now ready to ship!
 

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qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
I also noted that there were absolutely zero signs of sanding marks anywhere under the finish. I hate it when these appear but even with aggressive sanding, the CA apparently bleeds into the existing coats quite nicely.

Yup, it's pretty forgiving in that regard, although I don't sand between coats. Sometimes I will sand through & have to apply some more finish. I just wet sand with 600 then re-oil, and begin the finishing again.

My favorite part is the durability. For grins, take a junk piece of scrap & put a stretch of finish on it. Beat on it & see what it takes to damage the finish. It's ridiculous.
 

Bumlak

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bob,

So glad you gave it a try and it worked out so well. The cue looks fantastic!

Eric Sternberg
 

Scratchy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Very good looking!
Do you use oil over CA between coats, or only for the first coat over wood, Bob?
Thanks
Mac


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Bumlak

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Very good looking!
Do you use oil over CA between coats, or only for the first coat over wood, Bob?
Thanks
Mac


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If it's the method I am thinking of, it's only before the first base coat of CA.
 

dzcues

newbie
Silver Member
Very good looking!
Do you use oil over CA between coats, or only for the first coat over wood, Bob?
Thanks
Mac

Since this was my first attempt, I don't have a "process" yet. To answer your question, no, I did not use oil between CA coats - only on the bare wood. I've seen videos showing oil applied between coats but I haven't tried it. I might experiment with some JP's when I get some free time & I will post my results.

If anyone else is willing to experiment, this would be a good time & place to expand this discussion. Even if you have poor results, we can all learn from that.
 

Bumlak

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Since this was my first attempt, I don't have a "process" yet. To answer your question, no, I did not use oil between CA coats - only on the bare wood. I've seen videos showing oil applied between coats but I haven't tried it. I might experiment with some JP's when I get some free time & I will post my results.

If anyone else is willing to experiment, this would be a good time & place to expand this discussion. Even if you have poor results, we can all learn from that.

I have to say that it's nice that people are starting to see the merit in the CA finishing technique that Eric uses. As I stated previously, I had done it incorrectly for years before a visit to Eric's shop. Guys like Eric, Brent (BHQ,) Bob Dzuricky and Chris Hightower have been amazing in sharing their techniques on the forum and through other mediums. Soak up ALL the knowledge you can, support the other makers and hobbyists by sharing what you know and don't be afraid to try new things, even if they differ from your current ways. I have a friend of mine working on making solid plastic "WICO" type blanks right now on his overly-fancy super-giganto 3D printer. If they work, I'll be happy to share what we did and how we did it. It's encouraging to see people actually share knowledge....it really is.
 

dzcues

newbie
Silver Member
Tried it on a shaft this morning & all went well. My only concern is the baby oil - which is clear - darkened the area more than I expected. Other than that, it was a piece of cake. I used paper towels this time & found it much easier for this small area. I also tried applying oil between a few coats but saw no advantage or disadvantage either way.

edit: Note that the black linen collars were pure black. The grayish area above the reflection on the wider ring is either a reflection or a fingerprint smear. I checked it after seeing the picture & there are no issues caused by the use of the CA.
 

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Bumlak

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tried it on a shaft this morning & all went well. My only concern is the baby oil - which is clear - darkened the area more than I expected. Other than that, it was a piece of cake. I used paper towels this time & found it much easier for this small area. I also tried applying oil between a few coats but saw no advantage or disadvantage either way.

edit: Note that the black linen collars were pure black. The grayish area above the reflection on the wider ring is either a reflection or a fingerprint smear. I checked it after seeing the picture & there are no issues caused by the use of the CA.

I was wondering if mineral oil would do the same thing and then realized that I had looked before and baby oil is just mineral oil with a perfume.

I will try and see what happens with just simple water after the final sanding but before the base coat. my FEELING is that it could cloud (which would be sanded out anyways before applying finish coats.) My reasoning being that if I am remembering my chemistry, the cyano molecules bond together to create a "web" of sorts until such point as the web is so tight they can no longer move. Eric Crisp probably knows far more about the actual chemistry, but I know for a fact that water creates more chains which should make the bond tighter. How it would hold up....well that's really the question.
 

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
I haven't tried baby oil or mineral oil, so I cannot comment. However, I have noticed that the linseed oil I use will saturate the surface of the cue, making it appear wet. While it works great at deepening color & amplifying figure, sometimes it's counter productive. Case in point, paduak. It'll darken to a deep red with oil. When I want it to remain bright orange I use clear shellac in lieu of oil. The CA sticks rather well to the shellac.
 

CuesDirectly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I haven't tried baby oil or mineral oil, so I cannot comment. However, I have noticed that the linseed oil I use will saturate the surface of the cue, making it appear wet. While it works great at deepening color & amplifying figure, sometimes it's counter productive. Case in point, paduak. It'll darken to a deep red with oil. When I want it to remain bright orange I use clear shellac in lieu of oil. The CA sticks rather well to the shellac.

Good morning, great thread. I like to say "Go full BLO, never LO."

You mentioned Linseed Oil, (LO) I have never tried it. I am sure for a fact that you know the difference but many readers may not.

Boiled Linseed Oil is always a better product, it's still Linseed Oil but it's boiled to remove any and all impurities from the product.


Crisco oil and baby oil may work for some but BLO is made for wood. Many oils are a natural sealer for wood but again, BLO has the label that states it's a sealer and it's been proven for many years.


Let's keep up the great threads on the fantastic AZBilliards, Thanks again, Dave.
 

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
Good morning, great thread. I like to say "Go full BLO, never LO."

You mentioned Linseed Oil, (LO) I have never tried it. I am sure for a fact that you know the difference but many readers may not.

Boiled Linseed Oil is always a better product, it's still Linseed Oil but it's boiled to remove any and all impurities from the product.


Crisco oil and baby oil may work for some but BLO is made for wood. Many oils are a natural sealer for wood but again, BLO has the label that states it's a sealer and it's been proven for many years.


Let's keep up the great threads on the fantastic AZBilliards, Thanks again, Dave.

Yeah, boiled is what I use. It's what's available at the hardware store. I don't say boiled because it's just an extra word when I mostly expect folks to know what I mean. Seeing as how folks are using Crisco & baby oil, perhaps it was an unrealistic expectation:embarrassed2: Boil linseed oil is what I use. Ironically, I purposely try to not use acronyms much because not everybody knows what they mean.
 

Mcues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
CA Finish

After talking to Erik I decided to give a try on a re-finishing job. It went well except for the fact that there was one spot that I didn't remove the old finish down to the wood on the buttsleeve. Of course, the oil didn't penetrate on that spot, thus I had to remove the finish down to the wood and start again. This particular cue was a bad choice for a first try, not being exactly straight. It was challenging applying CA while it wobble. :)
I have to wait until one of my cues is ready for finish. :) but I already know it will work.

Mario
 

JC

Coos Cues
I started small on shaft joints and used what I have on hand. Formby's high gloss tung oil finish and Bob Smith medium gap filling CA. Totally non darkening except for the linen. The results are really nice. Thank you all for this thread. I have been struggling with this simple aspect. It really helps someone like me who's still perfecting process'.

Perfect timing too, I just threw together a downdraft box for my sanding lathe and it's excellent for working with that stinky CA.

S2070001 [800x600].JPG


JC
 
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GBCues

Damn, still .002 TIR!
Gold Member
Silver Member
This has been a great and informative thread, so I'd like to keep it going.
I have a purple heart jump/break cue I've been working on and thought I'd try the CA finish on it.
I rubbed in a coat of linseed oil, then two coats of thin CA, followed by 2 coats of medium CA. I sprayed accelerator in between each coat. Finish did look good. Then I polished and was pleased with the deep gloss.
However, after 2-3 days, surface crazing appeared, ugh!
So, obviously there's a little more to this finish than what I did above.
I started to sand it all off and apply my regular finish, but thought I'd ask here first. The butt has some sanding. The shaft has no sanding. You can see the crazing on both.
I am using the Stick Fast product as you can see in one of the pictures.
Any guidance?
Thanks
Gary
 

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qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
That looks pretty bad. One of three things is going on. It could be that you wiped the bare wood with a solvent to clean it before finish, and it was still off gassing when you applied finish. It could be that you sprayed the accelerator before the CA was completely hardened, and/or didn't wipe away the excess accelerator. Last but certainly not least is that your choice of CA is not suitable for finishes.

I recommend trying it again but with some restrictions. Don't use anything except a vacuum and/or dry towel to wipe the wood clean. Rub in the oil then wipe it dry. Use the 20gram blue bottle of Loc-Tite super glue from the big box stores. Apply a coat & let it completely harden before applying the next coat. Don't use any accelerator. Once you have 5-6 coats, sand & polish. See how that works out.

I have tried many different brands & viscosities. Most are useless for finish. The Loc-Tite is actually one of the better ones, and with as many I have tested is best at blending with the oil. It's also available at the hardware store. The downside is that it isn't very thick so it takes several more coats. In ten+ years I have found only 3 CAs that make a nice finish, and the blue bottle Loc-Tite is one of them.
 
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