Today's purchase TAD & Josey

Today I purchased 2 new cues. The first and the one I waited a long time for is the TAD 4 point window cue. The second is a Josey plain cue.

The TAD is stunning as you would suspect. Beautiful in only a way a TAD could be.

The Josey is also beautiful. I had been shopping for new player cue to replace my TAD-1 Birdseye Maple that I have owned since the early 90's and has been my daily player. The Josey seems like it might fit the bill.

Any offers before I chalk these two babies up and fire a few rounds through them? :wink:
 

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Pics of the joints

The Josey at the Top is a radial pin joint while the TAD is steal joint brass insert.

Going to play a bit with each and let you all know what I think (if the thoughts of a 40 year player matter).


:thumbup:
 

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Ok,

So after a day of playing and who knows, maybe 100 racks?, here is my determination...

First let me say what I determined I pretty much determined after about a rack with each cue. What was I waiting for? I wanted to get new tips on each cue. Initially I was shooting with the stock tips on each. The Tad came with the stock Tad multi layer tip. The Josey appeared to be a triangle. Can't say for sure. Tech that replaced it said the same. He also said the tip was defective. Which was refreshing. Here is my first and second impressions.

Let's start with the Josey...

As I mentioned I purchased this cue to replace my daily player. My daily player is a TAD-1. Plain maple, with rings and inlays at the butt. You have all seen them. I have owned that cues onc since the early 90's. Purchased new. It's due for a refinish. Definitely played. Even after about a 15 year hiatus. The Josey was the intended replacement. Is it just me or do all big pin cues play dull? I have 3 of them and none of them are alive. The Josey initially played like I was hitting marbles with a marshmallow. I figured that out within the first 3 hits. I held judgement till I replaced the tip. The choice of tips? Kumi Clear Medium. I like my tips a little on the hard side. This is why I didn't want to post judgment immediately. I am sure I will catch flack for this but the Josey hit like trash! I couldn't tell the difference between this cue and the $35 house cues I have with Moori Hard Tip on them. Actually it was probably worse! After the tip replacement it was better. Was it on par with what I would expect from a custom cue maker? Not even close! Today's cue makers are putting way too much emphasis on look and not playability. Especially for a player cue! Now I might be talking myself out of a sale here but, this cue is going up for sale immediately. Such a shame. It's such a beautiful "player" cue, yet falls short of being a solid player at $700+. That's a discounted price!

Ladies and gentlemen, I have not had the opportunity to play with a few of the top dogs in the big pin arena out there. Those being such as Southwest, Sugartree etc. Someday maybe my opinion will change. Till then these cues all play dull. Believe me, I am looking for something to change my opinion. Till then I think the big pin concept is all hype and will continue to play with my steal joint cues. Which by the way I played my fair share of terrible playing steal joint cues. Not impressed and I don't get the migration to this cue manufacturing format. What do I know right?


On to the TAD. Let me mention that before I purchased the TAD cue shown I purchased and sold a TAD-1-Z with a big pin. That cue outplayed any big pin cue I have ever played with. Including my Gilbert. I had to reluctantly sell it in order to fund this Tad. The purchaser wrote me back telling me how happy he was with it. Now, Tad cues are expensive, rare and difficult to get a hold of. Even more at times than the current wish list cues of Southwest with there 8-10 year waiting list. The Tad played and plays wonderful. Actually exceeded my expectations. For those who have said or wondered if the quality of Tad cues has fallen off since Tad passed away and his son Fred took over, I can assure you it has not! The cue has the sound, feel, balance and feedback that is what I had hoped for. Granted it is about 7 times the price but my goodness do these cues play. They play a ton and really come alive when you need that shot. Hit it hard and it's like a drunk mid western fight! It says hit me harder. They just perform. Perfect balance! Crisp hit! Unique sound that can be heard across any pool hall. It's all part of the feedback that a good or great cue should give. It's not a piece of wood. It's a surgical device for performing a certain job. Although it might not be in everyone's budget, should you have the means, you should pick one up and play it. These cues are not like others. Sure they are beautiful! But, these cues were designed to be played. I am not a collector. I play all ranges of cues.


So for what it is worth there is my 2 cents worth.

Now back to breaking in this new tip!
 
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Thanks! I think it's beautiful also.

In regards to the Josey, believe me I wanted it to be great! I just find it a dull playing cue. I define feedback by the sound, crisp hit and resonance of the cue. It defines the rythym of play. On a cue with good feedback you get to the point where you know if the shot will go just by the sound and feel of the hit. That's my experience. I feel bad I hit (no pun intended) this cue so hard on its performance but, it is my honest opinion. I know people have different preferences but, some of the best playing cues have those basic characteristics. For instance my Gabriel cue which is a big pin (though not a radial pin) plays way better than this Josey at half the price. So does my older unbranded jump break cue which is the same. Anyways, I don't want to beat a dead horse. This cue is up for sale on this site and I will probably put it up on Ebay also. Maybe it will find a more appreciative owner than myself. I might pull it out and try it again to break the tip in a touch which also helps. I am just bummed it didn't live up to my expectations.
 
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JoeyC71176

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Josey

Have you attempted to contact Keith about the cue? I have a cue of his (although an older one) that is phenomenal. It delivers on everything, feel, sound, balance.. I would at least maybe send it back to him and ask for him to look it over if the cue is seriously "that dead" feeling.
 
Have you attempted to contact Keith about the cue? I have a cue of his (although an older one) that is phenomenal. It delivers on everything, feel, sound, balance.. I would at least maybe send it back to him and ask for him to look it over if the cue is seriously "that dead" feeling.
Hi Joey,

No I haven't contacted Keith. I guess that should be an obvious choice. I will contact Keith and see where it goes. I appreciate the suggestion. I did pull it out again last night and shape the tip down to see if that would help. It didn't make any significant difference.
 
Also I have that exact Gilbert and was the cue I was referring to. I love that cue for breaking and jumping but, it also plays great. I removed the original tip and replaced it with a Kumui Clear Medium and the cue plays and breaks very well.
 

JoeyC71176

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've shot racks with the Gilbert with his "gator" tip on it and could still run a rack.. Super loud tip contact though lol
 
I don't know if it's a gator that came on mine or not. I was told it was a samsara. If it a gator or other I wouldn't have cared. It hit like a phenolic. If you ran racks with the tip I had then you must have been hitting center ball or playing on a 1x2 table.

Isn't it funny that every player you run across runs 48 thousand racks except when they don't?
 

JoeyC71176

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tip

Not really, I can still draw and do whatever with the gator tip. Cant push way outside or try to masse' but standard stuff works fine with it... I wouldn't try to do two tips of English, but within a half to 3/4 I would say it still was fine. I wasn't trying to do anything overly fancy with it , needing that much English is rare
 

skins

Likes to draw
Silver Member
.... Is it just me or do all big pin cues play dull? I have 3 of them and none of them are alive. The Josey initially played like I was hitting marbles with a marshmallow. I figured that out within the first 3 hits. I held judgement till I replaced the tip. The choice of tips? Kumi Clear Medium. I like my tips a little on the hard side. This is why I didn't want to post judgment immediately. I am sure I will catch flack for this but the Josey hit like trash! I couldn't tell the difference between this cue and the $35 house cues I have with Moori Hard Tip on them.....

This statement in red makes me believe your knowledge of what a "good hitting" cue is supposed to be is clouded but what you think "feels" good to YOU.. Not saying that a cue shouldn't feel good because it should but one should actually KNOW what to feel FOR to give an educated opinion.

One of the greatest cue builders in the world described the best most pure hit as a feel very similar to a good house cue with a sound ferrule and tip.. NOT PINGY like some may think but more "thud-like". This could be how you describe "Dull"... If that is the way this cue plays that Keith made, then I'm SURE he'll, as well as many many others have and will accept that result...

That said I've been working with Keith since 1998 and no one has ever had such a bad description as to the hit of his cues. Another reason for my thoughts in the first part of my post...

Send it back to where you got it if you don't like it.. I'm sure someone else will enjoy it....
 
Are you upset?

So from what I have just gathered THOUSANDS of individuals have purchased 2 piece cues for nothing (other than being able to break them down). If the goal is to duplicate a good house cue and my house cues play better than this than boy, did I waste a lot of money! I don't care how you want to describe a cue. Pingy, dull, thuddy...bottom line is this cue doesn't play well. Period! You neither purchased or own this cue. You have no idea what I am talking about. Yet, my 20 year old son picked up on it after shooting and comparing to half a dozen cues in the privacy of my own home.

I may have made a mistake by posting in this forum. I thought the heading was "cue reviews". I should have looked for the forum that said "positive reviews only". So for that I am sorry!

Sorry I offended your precious feelings towards your male cue making buddy (which I must say is weird in itself) but, my review stands!

Since you feel so strongly about it then maybe you should buy this cue from me. I will even throw in a broom stick which has the same "thud" you desire.

Just an FYI....Keith has yet to return my email. I suspect he won't. So maybe I will set an example by cutting this cue in half on my mitter saw and posting it on Youtube.
 
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skins

Likes to draw
Silver Member
Are you upset?

So from what I have just gathered THOUSANDS of individuals have purchased 2 piece cues for nothing (other than being able to break them down). If the goal is to duplicate a good house cue and my house cues play better than this than boy, did I waste a lot of money! I don't care how you want to describe a cue. Pingy, dull, thuddy...bottom line is this cue doesn't play well. Period! You neither purchased or own this cue. You have no idea what I am talking about. Yet, my 20 year old son picked up on it after shooting and comparing to half a dozen cues in the privacy of my own home.

I may have made a mistake by posting in this forum. I thought the heading was "cue reviews". I should have looked for the forum that said "positive reviews only". So for that I am sorry!

Sorry I offended your precious feelings towards your male cue making buddy (which I must say is weird in itself) but, my review stands!

Since you feel so strongly about it then maybe you should buy this cue from me. I will even throw in a broom stick which has the same "thud" you desire.

Just an FYI....Keith has yet to return my email. I suspect he won't. So maybe I will set an example by cutting this cue in half on my mitter saw and posting it on Youtube.


Who's getting their undies in a bunch now...LOL... No offense taken.. Regardless of my thoughts, educated as they MAY be, Keith would want to you to be happy. SO... send it back to where you bought it and get your money back as I suggested... Someone WILL enjoy it I guarantee...
 
Maybe what you don't understand is reviews are solely opinion based. Your education has nothing to do with it. Saying your education supersedes all opinions is arrogant.

You are right in one regard, I should send it back. Although most dealers/distributors don't always like that. So to try to preserve the relationship of a person I have done 10k worth of business within 90 days I was hoping to avoid that.
 

skins

Likes to draw
Silver Member
Maybe what you don't understand is reviews are solely opinion based. Your education has nothing to do with it. Saying your education supersedes all opinions is arrogant.

You are right in one regard, I should send it back. Although most dealers/distributors don't always like that. So to try to preserve the relationship of a person I have done 10k worth of business within 90 days I was hoping to avoid that.

When it comes to cues, especially Josey cues, some say I should be arogant... "Knowledgeably" that is...

Anyone who has done "10k" with ANY dealer should have no problem sending a cue back. On the flip side no respectable dealer receiving that 10k would question it either...
 
Right there is the difference. Embrace your arrogance. It seems rude to me to return I cue I purchased in good faith based on a reputable maker.

If I know anything (trust me I don't know much) is that people that brag about there knowledge or accomplishments are generally are insecure about the forementioned. So not only am I not impressed by the cue I am not impressed by you and your "knowledge". Let the cue and your work speak for itself.

Remember, every moron thinks they are the smartest in the room.

Now stop trolling and do something productive.
 
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skins

Likes to draw
Silver Member
Right there is the difference. Embrace your arrogance. It seems rude to me to return I cue I purchased in good faith based on a reputable maker.

If I know anything (trust me I don't know much) is that people that brag about there knowledge or accomplishments generally are insecure about the forementioned. So not only am I not impressed by the cue I am not impressed by you and your "knowledge". Let the cue and your work speak for itself.

Remember, every moron thinks they are the smartest in the room.

Now stop trolling and do something productive.

Not trolling at all. I know Josey cues. I should for good reason... Your complaint, coming from an under 20 post member, doesn't hold much weight especially how you described the hit of the cue which NO ONE has EVER described a Josey that way... E V E R!! To use those words speaks to YOU trolling MAYBE, or an axe to grind for some reason or another.. Why come on a forum as a BRAND NEW MEMBER and post something SOOO drastic. Why not just take it up with the seller or maybe better yet make a call to the maker BEFORE YOU MAKE SUCH A DEFAMATORY PUBLIC POST!!!

YOUR ACTIONS SPEAK VOLUMES TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE
As far as being the :smartest in the room" well I obviously am in this thread..

Who's the "moron" now?
 
Because it my opinion. Not yours. Glad you know Josey. Should I send you a list of my friends? Should I tell you what I think of your art work? Like I said the cue speaks for itself. Maybe it's a bad cue. Is that possible? All of a sudden I needed to be a 10 year vet of AZ in order to post something you might not like?

You really think a lot of yourself don't you? I made an honest review. Certainly not going to change it for you or anyone else. Live with it. You are not the only person on the planet. Although you probably wish you were.

Like I said do something productive today. I have to recover my table and I am sure some cue maker is just dying to get a hold of the next joust design for a waiting customer. It's no wonder these cues take so long. You are all on here stroking your egos.
 

skins

Likes to draw
Silver Member
Because it my opinion. Not yours. Glad you know Josey. Should I send you a list of my friends? Should I tell you what I think of your art work? Like I said the cue speaks for itself. Maybe it's a bad cue. Is that possible? All of a sudden I needed to be a 10 year vet of AZ in order to post something you might not like?

You really think a lot of yourself don't you? I made an honest review. Certainly not going to change it for you or anyone else. Live with it. You are not the only person on the planet. Although you probably wish you were.

Like I said do something productive today. I have to recover my table and I am sure some cue maker is just dying to get a hold of the next joust design for a waiting customer. It's no wonder these cues take so long. You are all on here stroking your egos.

YOU came here with a "complaint", "review", "opinion" whatever you want to call it. Because of how you went about it is what WAS wrong. No question. IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN HANDLED DIFFERENTLY...PERIOD... T H A T SPEAKS VOLUMES TO YOUR CHARACTER. The rest you lack of knowledge IMHO...

If you WOULD have handled it differently, I can gaurantee you WOULD have been taken care of better than you could have imagined but YOU chose this route...Return the cue and move on...

Good rolls to you.... I guess I'll retreat back to my loner world existence...:rolleyes:
 
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