Need advice on a new GC5

Dan White

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi guys. Dave E. from MA came down to my house in NJ to install a GC5 about a year and a half ago. The basement floor is concrete. A few weeks after they left I noticed a problem between the slate at the foot of the table and the middle slate. A ball would roll along the seam and then bounce off the seam and change direction. Dave came back with a different mechanic and they found that there was a slight rounding or gouging of the edge of the slate. It looked like it came from the factory that way. They bondoed the area and made sure everything was perfect, which it was.

Now less than a year later I'm noticing that the slate that had the problem is now all of a sudden too high. I can now roll a ball from the center slate to the other slate and it will bounce back. I have to roll the ball at a shallow angle along the seam for this to happen. You can feel the two slates with your hand. It will only affect play with balls that roll slowly at just the right angle.

What's the deal here? New table, concrete floor. I can understand the first issue if the slate had been shaved at the edge a little, but what explains the latest problem? The mechanic was a very experienced guy, but what do I know?

I haven't talked to Dave about this yet. Has enough time passed that this shouldn't be his responsibility any more? I want to be fair.

Any help is appreciated!
 
ROB.M

ROB.M

:)
Silver Member
Table

The GC4/5 has a issue with the end frame/slate sill moving.. The head or foot of the slate is screwed to the end frame, the end and side come apart for transport and installation purposes .... There's the weak spot at the joint because of the leverage on the end of the slate sill/frame.the end drops causing a ramp up to the head or foot end of the table.

reinforce the end frame inside and out then also be sure the installer wick bonds the seam with some type of liquid dowel.

I'd be happy to fix the issue but I'm far from you, there are plenty of guys who will be able to get you fixed up.
Give pooltable911 a call, pat knows the GC5 well.




Notes for installers and mechanics using wick bonding with CA/liquid dowel.
A fastener is only as strong as it's weakest point... Most have been using wicks only out in the play area of the slate.. It's important to wick the far outer edge of the slate-the weakest point. > I want to see one of those swift guys tear a phone book in half after outer edges are bonded.



Rob.M
 
Last edited:
Dan White

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
dontlitethat said:
The GC4/5 has a issue with the end frame/slate sill moving.. The head or foot of the slate is screwed to the end frame, the end and side come apart for transport and installation purposes .... There's the weak spot at the joint because of the leverage on the end of the slate sill/frame.the end drops causing a ramp up to the head or foot end of the table.
Click to expand...

That was a problem on the GC4, but was fixed for the GC5. On the 5, the end frame bolts in between the long framing members, rather than bolting to the end of them. So the slate is supported by the long frame all the way to the end of the slate, rather than having the edge of the slate resting on the short member bolted to the end of the long frame.

Is there some other issue with this design that might result in what I'm seeing? Like you said, the end frame still bolts to the long ones, but it is done differently so that the end frame cannot sag or bend the way it did on the GC4.
 
fastone371

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
I think the only fix would be for you to give me your GCV and I will give you my GCII. It has modified sub-rails, Artemis cushions, 4 1/2" pockets, etc.... :D Sorry I dont have a better answer.
If there are/were problems with frames sagging why doesn't anyone make them frames from steel? Any sagging would be eliminated as well as issues with moisture.
 
shayne87

shayne87

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dan White said:
Hi guys. Dave E. from MA came down to my house in NJ to install a GC5 about a year and a half ago. The basement floor is concrete. A few weeks after they left I noticed a problem between the slate at the foot of the table and the middle slate. A ball would roll along the seam and then bounce off the seam and change direction. Dave came back with a different mechanic and they found that there was a slight rounding or gouging of the edge of the slate. It looked like it came from the factory that way. They bondoed the area and made sure everything was perfect, which it was.

Now less than a year later I'm noticing that the slate that had the problem is now all of a sudden too high. I can now roll a ball from the center slate to the other slate and it will bounce back. I have to roll the ball at a shallow angle along the seam for this to happen. You can feel the two slates with your hand. It will only affect play with balls that roll slowly at just the right angle.

What's the deal here? New table, concrete floor. I can understand the first issue if the slate had been shaved at the edge a little, but what explains the latest problem? The mechanic was a very experienced guy, but what do I know?

I haven't talked to Dave about this yet. Has enough time passed that this shouldn't be his responsibility any more? I want to be fair.

Any help is appreciated!
Click to expand...


Dave E is a hack, I wouldn't let him or anyone he brings with him touch the table.
 
Dan White

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
fastone371 said:
I think the only fix would be for you to give me your GCV and I will give you my GCII. It has modified sub-rails, Artemis cushions, 4 1/2" pockets, etc.... :D Sorry I dont have a better answer.
If there are/were problems with frames sagging why doesn't anyone make them frames from steel? Any sagging would be eliminated as well as issues with moisture.
Click to expand...

Yeah, umm, I'll keep that option in mind. NOT! :D (Not that there's anything wrong with a GCII, of course).
 
Dan White

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
shayne87 said:
Dave E is a hack, I wouldn't let him or anyone he brings with him touch the table.
Click to expand...

I just don't know enough to understand how a table goes from perfect at the seam to the problem I have now, regardless of who installed it.
 
realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
dontlitethat said:
The GC4/5 has a issue with the end frame/slate sill moving.. The head or foot of the slate is screwed to the end frame, the end and side come apart for transport and installation purposes .... There's the weak spot at the joint because of the leverage on the end of the slate sill/frame.the end drops causing a ramp up to the head or foot end of the table.

reinforce the end frame inside and out then also be sure the installer wick bonds the seam with some type of liquid dowel.

I'd be happy to fix the issue but I'm far from you, there are plenty of guys who will be able to get you fixed up.
Give pooltable911 a call, pat knows the GC5 well.




Notes for installers and mechanics using wick bonding with CA/liquid dowel.
A fastener is only as strong as it's weakest point... Most have been using wicks only out in the play area of the slate.. It's important to wick the far outer edge of the slate-the weakest point. > I want to see one of those swift guys tear a phone book in half after outer edges are bonded.



Rob.M
Click to expand...

Learn the difference between a GC4 and a GC5 frame, they're not the same frame.
 
realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Dan White said:
I just don't know enough to understand how a table goes from perfect at the seam to the problem I have now, regardless of who installed it.
Click to expand...

The job was done wrong, had it been done right in the first place you'd have never started a thread here on AZB, wood expands and shrinks with humidity and therefore changes the amount of pressure there is on a wedge used to level the slates, super gluing the slate seams together is a procedure performed so the the problem you have....don't happen, if done right in the first place!
 
ROB.M

ROB.M

:)
Silver Member
Table

realkingcobra said:
Learn the difference between a GC4 and a GC5 frame, they're not the same frame.
Click to expand...

-
Don't be so silly glen, I know the GC4 and 5, on either frame the two end slate screws are on a separate component of the table.

Go easy'


Rob.M
 
realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
dontlitethat said:
-
Don't be so silly glen, I know the GC4 and 5, on either frame the two end slate screws are on a separate component of the table.

Go easy'


Rob.M
Click to expand...

The slate screws on the ends of the slates on ALL GCS are mounted on a separate part of the frame, the only difference being that on a GC4 the end frame cap was bolted to the ends of the frame rails, instead of dowel and bolted between the long frame members which was the frame flaw in the 4's. ...but not the 5's.
 
Dan White

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I only have the problem between the foot rail end and the center slate. There has never been an issue with the slate at the head of the table. Does this suggest anything?

The seam between the slates was separated with thin card stock glued to each slate (maybe three pieces total), and then the whole seam was bondo'ed and shaved level with a razor blade.

Both mechanics complained that the screws underneath the table on the GC5 could move over time and they didn't like the design. Could that be an issue? I know, probably impossible to know without actually seeing it.

Also, at what point is the last installer's obligation to make it right over? If everything is true and level the day he leaves is that the end of it?
 
realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Dan White said:
I only have the problem between the foot rail end and the center slate. There has never been an issue with the slate at the head of the table. Does this suggest anything?

The seam between the slates was separated with thin card stock glued to each slate (maybe three pieces total), and then the whole seam was bondo'ed and shaved level with a razor blade.

Both mechanics complained that the screws underneath the table on the GC5 could move over time and they didn't like the design. Could that be an issue? I know, probably impossible to know without actually seeing it.

Also, at what point is the last installer's obligation to make it right over? If everything is true and level the day he leaves is that the end of it?
Click to expand...

Was I not clear about my assessment of the problem?
 
realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
D an White said:
I only have the problem between the foot rail end and the center slate. There has never been an issue with the slate at the head of the table. Does this suggest anything?

The seam between the slates was separated with thin card stock glued to each slate (maybe three pieces total), and then the whole seam was bondo'ed and shaved level with a razor blade.

Both mechanics complained that the screws underneath the table on the GC5 could move over time and they didn't like the design. Could that be an issue? I know, probably impossible to know without actually seeing it.

Also, at what point is the last installer's obligation to make it right over? If everything is true and level the day he leaves is that the end of it?
Click to expand...

Or do I need to point out that you hired some f^%!ing hacks to do the work, because if the KNEW what they were doing in the first place....this would NOT have happened!!!
 
A-1 billiards

A-1 billiards

FELT WRIGHT
Silver Member
Hi Dan,

I've worked on and installed many new and used Gold Crown 5s. Feel free to call me at 603 765 6160 and I'll be glad to service your table the next time I'm in NJ. (later this month) Your GC 5 has a fantastic ladder style frame, that I personally consider the best frame Brunswick ever built. The issues are that the slates need to be liquid doweled together properly and the built in slate levelers need additional wooded wedges for expansion and contraction.

I wish Brunswick had followed Diamond's leed and used 30 MM slate on that frame, it would have alleviated some of the post delivery "fixes" that are required on GC 5s.

All that being said, The GC 5 is a fantastic, strong and well built table.

Jay
 
M

mechanic/player

Active member
Silver Member
No they are not, neither are the 4s. I set up 4 brand new GC 5s last year with no issues. I do them by myself. The only struggles I had with them was putting the frames together where the dowels for the frame kept it from pulling together. The leveling system worked perfectly for me but I think I did add a shim or two where needed.
 
realkingcobra

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
[QUOTE =mechanic/player;5448010]No they are not, neither are the 4s. I set up 4 brand new GC 5s last year with no issues. I do them by myself. The only struggles I had with them was putting the frames together where the dowels for the frame kept it from pulling together. The leveling system worked perfectly for me but I think I did add a shim or two where needed.[/QUOTE]

Ratchet straps wrapped around the frame suckling it together tight while bumping it with a rubber mallet works real easy, along with some wax on the dowels, slides right together.
 
fastone371

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
So the most likely problem with this GCV are the wood wedges were used to level the slates? If that is the case I thought GCVs had some sort of slate leveling screws or bolts?? I am not sure, I have never seen one yet other than in pictures.
 
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