Bonified Honest Aiming System You Need

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
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He has an aiming system. It's called contact point on the OB. Nothing else can hit the 5 portions of the pocket. So easy to demonstrate. Here is one of the thousands, millions of shots where the portion of the pocket must be met in order to get the required shape. The OB must be cut into the number 5 (the thinnest cut) in order to get this shape. Every "aiming system" that I've read about states the OB goes into the center. Can't do that here...., unless you are worried about shape for the next ball (which never comes up in AZB).
 

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Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
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Here is another one. The one ball must be cut into the thickest portion of the pocket (number 1) in order to get this shape. If you hit the one ball into the middle, the CB scratches or comes close to it and the desired shape is messed up.
 

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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
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That projector looks like a great device for training!

Both of these shots name it quite easy to target the appropriate portion of the pocket because the ob is close to the pocket. This is typically when when playing into certain portions of the pocket comes into play. From greater distances (1/2 table or more) it's not as common unless you're skill level is among the top players in the world.

I'm not a 100% vertical axis player, so I can easily use a little spin on certain shots, like that first one, to get the required shape instead of taking a chance on missing the ball by trying to manipulate the angle in order to stick with using the vertical axis. To each his own, or her own. One player can master pocket-portion aiming with vertical axis CB control, while another player masters using a little spin to move the CB when needed.

As far as aiming systems sending balls to center pocket on every shot.....well, there isn't one that really does this besides using gb or contact points and having an excellent idea of exactly how much throw is going to occur, which can be different from one table to another or one set of balls to another, or from one pool room to another. It's a feel thing that players eventually develop through experience, just like developing the ability to
send the OB into the facing, the thin or thick portion of the pocket, or into the back of another OB when the shot calls for it. Just about any aiming system can eventually lead a player to this skill level of fine-tuning shots, as long as they attention to results and learn to tweak their aim while learning. And as long as they are capable of striking the CB accurately.
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
That projector looks like a great device for training!

Both of these shots name it quite easy to target the appropriate portion of the pocket because the ob is close to the pocket. This is typically when when playing into certain portions of the pocket comes into play. From greater distances (1/2 table or more) it's not as common unless you're skill level is among the top players in the world.

.

The projector and unlimited programs are absolutely amazing. The patterns for 8,9,10 ball save so much time and trouble. These two pictures come from Robin Dreyer's "transition" shots which he has 70 of them at this time. Beautiful transition shots that force one to think about the CB tip position and speed as shown on the CB diagram. I should have shown balls that would prevent the shape from another way.

The second part is a matter of prospective. Robin uses the portions of the pockets from end rail to end rail pocket. And besides I've stated that if one "cheats" to throw the OB off, he isn't using the "aiming system" anyway, but I'll leave that for youse guys.
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
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Silver Member
That projector looks like a great device for training!


I'm not a 100% vertical axis player, so I can easily use a little spin on certain shots, like that first one, to get the required shape instead of taking a chance on missing the ball by trying to manipulate the angle in order to stick with using the vertical axis. Tntually lead a player to this skill level of fine-tuning shots, as long as they attention to results and learn to tweak their aim while learning. And as long as they are capable of striking the CB accurately.

I would love to see you hit the CB rebounding tangent on the first side rail and then back onto it's axis according to the drawing by hitting the OB in the middle or toward the thickest part of the pocket (number 1). Please video tape that one.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
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I would love to see you hit the CB rebounding tangent on the first side rail and then back onto it's axis according to the drawing by hitting the OB in the middle or toward the thickest part of the pocket (number 1). Please video tape that one.


Actually I would target the ob about where the diagram indicates, because on my table if it barely brushes the point of that right corner cushion facing it will rattle and not drop. So I'd aim it just left of center, not even at the left facing because that may rattle also. I'd try to send the OB into the dark area where the left pocket facing ends. But I could shoot it straight down as close as possible to the right point and still get the CB to the diagramed position off that side rail. It would need more speed than I'd like though.
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
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Actually I would target the ob about where the diagram indicates, because on my table if it barely brushes the point of that right corner cushion facing it will rattle and not drop. So I'd aim it just left of center, not even at the left facing because that may rattle also. I'd try to send the OB into the dark area where the left pocket facing ends. But I could shoot it straight down as close as possible to the right point and still get the CB to the diagramed position off that side rail. It would need more speed than I'd like though.

Yes, my pockets are 4.5" also. I still say the ball must be at the left edge of the pocket to follow the transition and axis lines exactly as diagrammed. But, the point is that pockets must be defined into 5 components for some of these transitions to work out. It's a precision exercise. There could be object balls aligned exactly where the middle or to the right of the pocket for the CB to react in to. I think in the "aiming section" most are looking to pocket the damn ball and could care less about getting a nice 22 degree angle on the next ball.
 
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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
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Yes, my pockets are 4.5" also. I still say the ball must be at the left edge of the pocket to follow the transition and axis lines exactly as diagrammed. But, the point is that pockets must be defined into 5 components for some of these transitions to work out. It's a precision exercise. There could be object balls aligned exactly where the middle or to the right of the pocket for the CB to react in to. I think in the "aiming section" most are looking to pocket the damn ball and could care less about getting a nice 22 degree angle on the next ball.

You are correct. Most players just want the balls to go into the pockets, and as long as they can get a shot on the next ball they are pleased. Trying to play perfect shape every time will leave even the best pro players feeling like losers. Some shots require precision position play, but most don't. If every shot requires perfect/precise position, then the game is being made much harder than it needs to be.
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
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Silver Member
From this viewpoint that looks like it might (?) be a 30 degree hit...could be a 45.
No matter which, why not just whack it with about 6 o'clock draw, one tip below center on the cueball, go over to the opposite long rail and then back to the desired spot?
That seems to work on my table and I don't have to estimate anything else..
Just a comment...not looking for trouble.
:thumbup:

The exorcise is to work on the transitions, making the CB go exactly as in the diagram. There could be obstruction ball in the way you suggested or something. Usually there are many ways to achieve the same shape and these are 70 of some of them. I am so surprised why no one has asked how they can get this equipment for their own.
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That projector looks like a great device for training!

Both of these shots name it quite easy to target the appropriate portion of the pocket because the ob is close to the pocket. This is typically when when playing into certain portions of the pocket comes into play. From greater distances (1/2 table or more) it's not as common unless you're skill level is among the top players in the world.

I'm not a 100% vertical axis player, so I can easily use a little spin on certain shots, like that first one, to get the required shape instead of taking a chance on missing the ball by trying to manipulate the angle in order to stick with using the vertical axis. To each his own, or her own. One player can master pocket-portion aiming with vertical axis CB control, while another player masters using a little spin to move the CB when needed.

As far as aiming systems sending balls to center pocket on every shot.....well, there isn't one that really does this besides using gb or contact points and having an excellent idea of exactly how much throw is going to occur, which can be different from one table to another or one set of balls to another, or from one pool room to another. It's a feel thing that players eventually develop through experience, just like developing the ability to
send the OB into the facing, the thin or thick portion of the pocket, or into the back of another OB when the shot calls for it. Just about any aiming system can eventually lead a player to this skill level of fine-tuning shots, as long as they attention to results and learn to tweak their aim while learning. And as long as they are capable of striking the CB accurately.

There is another thread about aiming wars. Your kind of post above is exactly the kind of post that adds fuel to the fire. You just couldn't resist getting in another knock on CTE. No, you didn't use those three words, but everyone knows what system you were talking about. And, it had nothing to do with the topic of this thread without really stretching it. There's no need for comments like that which only inflame.
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
There is another thread about aiming wars. Your kind of post above is exactly the kind of post that adds fuel to the fire. You just couldn't resist getting in another knock on CTE. No, you didn't use those three words, but everyone knows what system you were talking about. And, it had nothing to do with the topic of this thread without really stretching it. There's no need for comments like that which only inflame.

Yet, You said nothing about the transitions that must have the OB hit different portions of the pocket. I guess if the middle of the pocket won't work, play a safety.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The exorcise is to work on the transitions, making the CB go exactly as in the diagram. There could be obstruction ball in the way you suggested or something. Usually there are many ways to achieve the same shape and these are 70 of some of them. I am so surprised why no one has asked how they can get this equipment for their own.

denwhit - I think those light projections are really interesting. I haven't jumped at getting one because I don't think it will help the kinds of things I work on to improve my game, at least not right now.

In your first example you show a transition line to get to the target trapezoid. If there is some reason you HAVE to follow that transition line exactly, then the only way to do it is as you are explaining. However, there is nothing particularly important about that line. If I hit slightly more full and harder, or do something else with a little outside spin I will still hit the target area, but maybe my transition line is an inch one way or the other. You could have balls blocking either path, so you need to know both methods.

Cheating the pocket as the cue ball gets farther away becomes needlessly dangerous. Sometimes you just have to cheat it and take a chance, but for routine shots, there is no reason to increase your chance of missing. Speed of shot, vertical tip position and/or english can get the cue ball to go practically anywhere you need for a reasonable shot.

In your second example where you draw the ball to the opposite long rail... If the objective is simply to get a shot on the next ball, I could probably make that shot more safely with a bunch of inside english and a soft stroke. The cue ball will die coming off the bottom rail and give me the shot I need.

I guess my point is that the 5 parts of the pocket thing is a tool to use as needed, but I don't see it as a sort of "way of life" for every shot. I think it increases the chance for a miss, and you don't gain much for that risk.
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yet, You said nothing about the transitions that must have the OB hit different portions of the pocket. I guess if the middle of the pocket won't work, play a safety.

I have previously covered that with you. Have you forgotten?
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
denwhit - I think those light projections are really interesting. I haven't jumped at getting one because I don't think it will help the kinds of things I work on to improve my game, at least not right now.

In your first example you show a transition line to get to the target trapezoid. If there is some reason you HAVE to follow that transition line exactly, then the only way to do it is as you are explaining. However, there is nothing particularly important about that line. If I hit slightly more full and harder, or do something else with a little outside spin I will still hit the target area, but maybe my transition line is an inch one way or the other. You could have balls blocking either path, so you need to know both methods.

Cheating the pocket as the cue ball gets farther away becomes needlessly dangerous. Sometimes you just have to cheat it and take a chance, but for routine shots, there is no reason to increase your chance of missing. Speed of shot, vertical tip position and/or english can get the cue ball to go practically anywhere you need for a reasonable shot.

In your second example where you draw the ball to the opposite long rail... If the objective is simply to get a shot on the next ball, I could probably make that shot more safely with a bunch of inside english and a soft stroke. The cue ball will die coming off the bottom rail and give me the shot I need.

I guess my point is that the 5 parts of the pocket thing is a tool to use as needed, but I don't see it as a sort of "way of life" for every shot. I think it increases the chance for a miss, and you don't gain much for that risk.

Dan, the shots are transitional s. I have 70 of them with this program and the goal is to exactly follow the diagrams with the engish on the CB and the correct speed. Of course, there are other ways to get around the table and into the target area but those may be blocked so this path is the only one left. And, some of those will be the next drill. It's just a drill and very valuable with tip placement and speed to get someone a nice conducive angle on the next ball (never mentioned on AZB). Some of the shots require the OB to go into a portion of the pocket and that is what is so outrageous here in the "aiming section" as everything MUST go into the middle.
If anyone owns a home table, this is a device they should have. Patterns for 8.9.10 ball games and drills and drills.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dan, the shots are transitional s. I have 70 of them with this program and the goal is to exactly follow the diagrams with the engish on the CB and the correct speed. Of course, there are other ways to get around the table and into the target area but those may be blocked so this path is the only one left. And, some of those will be the next drill. It's just a drill and very valuable with tip placement and speed to get someone a nice conducive angle on the next ball (never mentioned on AZB). Some of the shots require the OB to go into a portion of the pocket and that is what is so outrageous here in the "aiming section" as everything MUST go into the middle.
If anyone owns a home table, this is a device they should have. Patterns for 8.9.10 ball games and drills and drills.

I understand and agree with much of what you post. However, I don't agree that hitting all shots into 5 parts of the pocket is the only way to play high level position. It is important, for sure (I mentioned how Lassiter said he broke the pocket into 3 sections), but I see it as more of a tool instead of a way of playing.
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
I understand and agree with much of what you post. However, I don't agree that hitting all shots into 5 parts of the pocket is the only way to play high level position. It is important, for sure (I mentioned how Lassiter said he broke the pocket into 3 sections), but I see it as more of a tool instead of a way of playing.

There are millions of shots where the CB will NOT go onto the path unless the OB goes into the correct portion of the pocket. I will show some more and see if you agree.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There are millions of shots where the CB will NOT go onto the path unless the OB goes into the correct portion of the pocket. I will show some more and see if you agree.

I'd like to see, but before you do that, can you explain why the path to the destination is so important? That path is equally likely to be blocked as any other path.
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
I'd like to see, but before you do that, can you explain why the path to the destination is so important? That path is equally likely to be blocked as any other path.

It may be the only path available? I'll try to show obstruction balls in the way to prevent any other paths. But, why would someone not want to learn these transitions? I can not explain it.
 
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Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dan, the shots are transitional s. I have 70 of them with this program and the goal is to exactly follow the diagrams with the engish on the CB and the correct speed. Of course, there are other ways to get around the table and into the target area but those may be blocked so this path is the only one left. And, some of those will be the next drill. It's just a drill and very valuable with tip placement and speed to get someone a nice conducive angle on the next ball (never mentioned on AZB). Some of the shots require the OB to go into a portion of the pocket and that is what is so outrageous here in the "aiming section" as everything MUST go into the middle.
If anyone owns a home table, this is a device they should have. Patterns for 8.9.10 ball games and drills and drills.

Why is it that you keep harping about "everything must go in the middle" when you are the ONLY one even claiming that?

Dan explained it very well in his post. Just because an aiming system lines one up for center pocket does NOT mean in any way that they can not then tweak a hair for a different portion of the pocket, or for the use of english.

Also, please understand that aiming is just that. AIMING. Positional play is a different subject. Yes both are intertwined. Just as the entire process of playing is intertwined with each component.

If you like positional drills, try Kinnisters and Dr. Daves for using spin.
 
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