Balls dont break apart well

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dan-
I am thinking> a pool table at about 60℉ has warm air introduced to the room... that cooler mass of the table will cause some condensation. It might be slight, but with the large surface area of cloth on the table acting as a sponge, it may effect the roll.

I'm interested to know the temperature of the playing area.

As I said before... crank the heat up 70 for two days and see if the table plays differently.

Dave

I understand what you are saying but your premise is not correct. Just bringing in warm air does not mean that it will condense. It has to be warm and moist air with a dew point above the temperature of the slate in order for it to condense. Where would you get that?
 
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lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I believe important elements missing so far in this discussion are the tables being played on nowadays. I think it was common for 14.1 to be played on GCs often setup for 14.1, meaning 5" (or larger) pockets. Now we're generally speaking of 14.1 on Diamond tables and those tighter pockets favor shallower break shots.

I played for most of my pool playing life on GCs and now I'm playing on Diamonds. I used to favor steeper angles but on a Diamond am now favoring a shallower angle, say a half ball further from the rail than the OB, and pounding it if necessary. In addition to a higher make percentage I think that with that kind of angle you have more flexibility to go with follow or draw. The Diamonds just demand so much accuracy shallower is the way to go unless you're a Siegel or Rempe.

Lou Figueroa
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I played for most of my pool playing life on GCs and now I'm playing on Diamonds. I used to favor steeper angles but on a Diamond am now favoring a shallower angle, say a half ball further from the rail than the OB, and pounding it if necessary. In addition to a higher make percentage I think that with that kind of angle you have more flexibility to go with follow or draw. The Diamonds just demand so much accuracy shallower is the way to go unless you're a Siegel or Rempe.

Lou Figueroa

That might be a good compromise. I see lots of pro's using even more shallow break angles than this. In fact yours would probably be considered an extreme angle! Of course even these guys don't consistently put the cue ball exactly where they want it so the really shallow angles might not be intentional.
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
I've struggled a lot on tough breaking tables. My solution to this is to kind of "go with the flow". Instead of trying to break harder and harder, I go for a bit shallower cut on the break and use sidespin if necessary to control the cueball better. It's way easier to play good cueball position on a bit softer breakshot.

Breaking medium-soft and going to center table, I usually get a secondary break on the side of the rack. Many times "a pocket" is formed in the rack and if you go into this with topspin you can really disperse the remaining balls.

Some tables have a sort of "sweetspot" when it comes to breakspeed, and will give a very nice layout with a soft to intermediate speed, when hard speeds fail.

I tend to favor below-the-rack breakshots for tough breaking tables. When playing for side-of-the-rack breakshots I play for a shallow(ish) angle and either an intermediate just below center shot, or a topspin-with-inside break. Somtimes I will even play a side-pocket-breakshot, but that is really touchy and works better on certain tables and not so good on others. That's a thing to try if everything else fails and not a standard recommendation.

It's very hard to give general recommendations as tables break differently.

As to changing the way a table breaks, I suggest you vacuum well and then brush the table thouroughly. Use a damp microfiber towel to clean the cloth now and then, but always after you've quit playing for the day, not before you play, as dampness will make the table play tougher.

I think the single most important thing is having clean balls, and if possible, polished and waxed. I will often notice a dropoff in the quality of spreads as the balls get dirtier. That's part of the game, but if the table is very difficult I think you could be forgiven if you repolished the balls. Remember to clean the inside of the pockets, as dirty pockets will foul up the balls much quicker.

Make sure you have a nice, matched set and not a beaten to death set with balls of varying weights and sizes. The cueball weight is especially important. If you have a cheap ball set, at least get a cueball whose weight matches or exceeds that of the object balls. A light cueball will not do you any favors on tough breaking tables.

I recommend getting the best quality rack you can afford. Spend some extra time looking the balls over as gaps will kill your spreads.
 
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Dave

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I understand what you are saying but your premise is not correct. Just bringing in warm air does not mean that it will condense. It has to be warm and moist air with a dew point above the temperature of the slate in order for it to condense. Where would you get that?

There isn't much information provided about the location of the table.
Let's here some more from the original poster.

...Maybe the table is located in a damp basement?... just speculating. ;-]

I've gotta laugh. This thread is sort of a Rorschach Test.
Everything from moisture > to> you're gripping the cue too tightly >to> more or less angle.
I'll circle back> I like a dry table with a lose grip and more angle!!
 

neonlight

Registered
Danny Harriman is not only a great 14.1 player but is equally gifted in the physics of the game. The advice he offers is dead on. It would be wise to follow his advice if you wish to improve your game. Danny a I had a 14.1 game 2 weeks ago and discussed this very subject. Anytime Danny offers suggestions I listen very closely. Very few understand this game better than Danny.
 

poolnut7879

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Danny Harriman is not only a great 14.1 player but is equally gifted in the physics of the game. The advice he offers is dead on. It would be wise to follow his advice if you wish to improve your game. Danny a I had a 14.1 game 2 weeks ago and discussed this very subject. Anytime Danny offers suggestions I listen very closely. Very few understand this game better than Danny.

How well did he understand this position?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKO9f_tK7VQ

2:26:00 in
 

neonlight

Registered
I hate it when a ball skids. Killed many a good run in 14.1. I noticed at last years world championship they requested the cue ball be cleaned nearly every time in the last game.
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
Still Learnin'

I hate it when a ball skids. Killed many a good run in 14.1. I noticed at last years world championship they requested the cue ball be cleaned nearly every time in the last game.

Thanks for the kind words Ken, still learning though. Nice to see there is someone in MO who loves Straight Pool.
 

acousticsguru

player/instructor
Silver Member
Cold balls and cold surface really kills ball roll and spread. Difference is greater than one could predict. I know this by experience.
Just to example.. Carambole tables with heating are a lot faster than without it ones..

There's indirect advice in this: I once had my Brunswick in a cold, damp basement, and what I did was to build table heating for the slate, just as one would for a carom (e.g. 3-Cushion) table. In fact, I asked a guy who's a former National Champion at carom billiards (balkline if memory serves) for advice on how to do it, and he sold me the wires etc. he uses for carom tables in his shop. Worked like a charm, plus it was worth it for the pain in my fingers and back, too. Reasonably cheap, and highly recommended!

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 

14.1 Forever

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have an answer - wipe table down with clean slightly damp micro-fiber towel. The mixture I use is 10% rubbing alcohol ( peppermint flavor) and 90% water. Then use either aramith or turtle wax on pool balls (seperate micro fiber towel), also wipe inside pockets. Last step is to place all 15 ball's in the rack an roll the rack gently towards the center of the table. When the whole rack glides effortlessly down the table - you then have a rack that will disperse easily. If the rack however stops rather quickly quickly - you can look forward to a heavy rack that will not disperse well. Under these damp or dirty conditions - the cue ball will tend to get stuck in the stack more often also. I hope this helps you some. It is generally more difficult to play in a basement, more trying to draw the cue ball and rails pick up speed - but do not be discouraged I have many high runs in this type of environment.

Great answer Danny!

In addition to Danny's excellent response, I vacuum the cloth with a brush attachment before wiping it down. I have a central vacuum system that has a suction control valve on it to reduce suction ... preventing the unit from picking up the cloth. You can use a Shop Vac but if you can't reduce suction you will need to make an adapter using a piece of PVC pipe that you can drill a series of 1/4" holes, 4 - 6, and use tape over the holes to adjust the suction. You want to pick up chalk dust not damage the cloth.

If you don't want to use the 10% - 90% mixture that Danny uses, a product called "Quick-Clean" is very good ... it's used at the US Open, Derby City Classic and the Men's Pro Tour. Dave Hodges also offers a washable micro - fiber pad that fits over a wide wand that makes it even easier to clean the cloth. Any damp spots with either method can be dried using a hair drier.

Polish the OB's NOT the CB. Wipe the CB with micro-fiber towel often. Use a lighter CB e.g.: Red Circle or Measle Ball. The lighter ball will help with your draw, especially in your conditions.

IMO "Humidity" is the key. 72 degrees temperature & 72 degrees humidity is perfect for storing cigars :D but 72 temp. & a lower humidity will go a long way to help with your problem. Even a few degrees can make a BIG difference. With your table in the basement, if you don't already have one, I would invest in a de-humidifier, By the way, my table is in my basement.

Proper environment along with & proper maintenance = Great Pool !
 
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Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
Great answer Danny!

In addition to Danny's excellent response, I vacuum the cloth with a brush attachment before wiping it down. I have a central vacuum system that has a suction control valve on it to reduce suction ... preventing the unit from picking up the cloth. You can use a Shop Vac but if you can't reduce suction you will need to make an adapter using a piece of PVC pipe that you can drill a series of 1/4" holes, 4 - 6, and use tape over the holes to adjust the suction. You want to pick up chalk dust not damage the cloth.

If you don't want to use the 10% - 90% mixture that Danny uses, a product called "Quick-Clean" is very good ... it's used at the US Open, Derby City Classic and the Men's Pro Tour. Dave Hodges also offers a washable micro - fiber pad that fits over a wide wand that makes it even easier to clean the cloth. Any damp spots with either method can be dried using a hair drier.

Polish the OB's NOT the CB. Wipe the CB with micro-fiber towel often. Use a lighter CB e.g.: Red Circle or Measle Ball. The lighter ball will help with your draw, especially in your conditions.

IMO "Humidity" is the key. 72 degrees temperature & 72 degrees humidity is perfect for storing cigars :D but 72 temp. & a lower humidity will go a long way to help with your problem. Even a few degrees can make a BIG difference. With your table in the basement, if you don't already have one, I would invest in a de-humidifier, By the way, my table is in my basement.

Proper environment along with & proper maintenance = Great Pool !

I clean the cue ball as well (with cleaning agent) but of course that is personal preference. I would be careful about introducing a smaller or lighter cue ball. This will result in more deflection ( no matter how little your cue deflects) and also more possible skids. I prefer to clean all object balls - including the white ball, seems to help keep the balance. In my opinion cleaning the white during a run should be and is legal, especially after player feels he may have recently had a skid.
 
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Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
Please don't think I am drawing you into a debate, I can tell by your posts that you genuinely love 14.1. Plus in a dry air environment (say Reno) you may be correct about leaving the white from the maintenance. Where I live the humidity is a factor.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
The balls don't break apart well on the table I play on. It is a gold crown 3 with new rails, simonis, and new centennials. It is in a basement where it is colder than room temp. Could that be the contributing factor. The table is cold or the balls are cold?

If its Simonis 860 cloth on the table, thats the wrong cloth for playing 14.1 on as it plays to slow, 760 is a much better cloth, breaking the rack is much easier.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If its Simonis 860 cloth on the table, thats the wrong cloth for playing 14.1 on as it plays to slow, 760 is a much better cloth, breaking the rack is much easier.

860 is the wrong cloth for straight pool??? Why not play on glass? The balls will spread nicely that way. Have you ever played on worn 760 that is still in reasonable shape? It's a total joke. It is about impossible to play close position as the cue ball never stops rolling. Basically it is an unplayable surface, IMO.
 
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