Speed Question & Diagram

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
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https://pad.chalkysticks.com/47b9a.png

I've been struggling with Speed Control so I sat down and diagrammed a lot of the shots where I messed up due to having poor speed control so I could practice them. The attached diagram is one of the shots. Please don't try and tell me I should have played the shot differently because with the lay of the land this was the only option. I just didn't put the other seven balls in the diagram. Lets focus on this shot, period.

Anyway, I practiced it for about 15 minutes tonight. I bet I shot it about 30-40 times, trying to get where the White CB is, straight in on the 3-Ball. And I hardly got the perfect straight in position on any shots, maybe once. Most of the time I was either well short, short, long, or well long. I was using about a tip of left english on this shot.

So, instructors, am I wasting my time in practicing this shot? Or do I just need to practice it about another 1,000 times? Or is this the type of Speed Control shot that even Efren or Allison would struggle with?

r/DCP
 
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Bob Jewett

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It's a hard shot as you are crossing the line of position. All players have trouble with this but it is worth practicing.

(If you have to get straight on the 3 you would be better off going long rail/long rail to go into the line of position but that requires you to hit the second rail by the side pocket.)
 

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
https://pad.chalkysticks.com/47b9a.png

I've been struggling with Speed Control so I sat down and diagrammed a lot of the shots where I messed up due to having poor speed control so I could practice them. The attached diagram is one of the shots. Please don't try and tell me I should have played the shot differently because with the lay of the land this was the only option. I just didn't put the other seven balls in the diagram. Lets focus on this shot, period.

Anyway, I practiced it for about 15 minutes tonight. I bet I shot it about 30-40 times, trying to get where the White CB is, straight in on the 3-Ball. And I hardly got the perfect straight in position on any shots, maybe once. Most of the time I was either well short, short, long, or well long. I was using about a tip of left english on this shot.

So, instructors, am I wasting my time in practicing this shot? Or do I just need to practice it about another 1,000 times? Or is this the type of Speed Control shot that even Efren or Allison would struggle with?

r/DCP

The best way to perform this shot is with just a TOUCH of inside spin at center cue ball (or a little lower on the cue ball). You will have to hit the shot with a firm stroke. It's a feel type shot.
CJ Wiley demonstrates this shot in one of his DVD's. I don't recall which one.

Hope this helps. :)

John
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
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i am not an instructor
my 2 cents
first of all you are trying to get to a 2 inch target to be straight in
even for a pro thats a very small landing zone
second the spin adds speed and you may be surprised you can get there with just follow or a smidgeon of english
third
here is where practicing those up and down the table drills to develop 1/3/5/7/ speeds
because you will over time develop based on the thickness of hit and distance to travel what power level 1/3/5/7/etc you need to get where you want to
at a minimum get a feel for where soft medium hard gets you
set up the same shot and try getting to the various positions i have drawn along the cue ball path
try to get could at one target or at least several attempts at one target before trying another landing zone
jmho
icbw

protege speed drill.jpg
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
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The best way to perform this shot is with just a TOUCH of inside spin at center cue ball (or a little lower on the cue ball). You will have to hit the shot with a firm stroke. It's a feel type shot.
...
I think that's very bad advice. The inside spin will complicate things. If any side spin is used, and I don't think any is required for this shot, it should be outside which tends to remove variables due to the cushion and reduces the chance of a skid.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
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To answer the original question,

Yes, to a certain extent you are wasting your time because your perception about the shot isn't quite right. There isn't a professional player in the world who will expect to get perfectly straight in on this shot on demand. They will try their best, using all of their experience, knowledge and expertise in order to get there, but they won't be surprised if the cb lands slightly off line.

If there's no other way but perfectly straight, then the pro would try for it and then play a safe shot if the cb lands off line. The pro will also calculate ahead of time which side would be the better side to make the error on --- for example: If the cb travels too far, the player may be hooked. Then it would be better to favor the short side.

Although it's important to strive for precise position, you have to learn how to be flexible enough to adapt, because we aren't perfect.
 
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greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
I’d probably play less side spin and more follow to make it run closer to the rail and that first diamond, play it little longer if it’s just wide you can come off the shot one rail to get back where you need to.

If I play the spin I’d think I’m more likely to go too wide and get under the 3


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To answer the original question,

There isn't a professional player in the world who will expect to get perfectly straight in on this shot on demand. They will try their best, using all of their experience, knowledge and expertise in order to get there, but they won't be surprised if the cb lands slightly off line.

I agree with your comments Fran. But when that really poor basketball coach at Indiana University was here for 25+ years there was about only one thing that he ever said that I agreed with. And that was to make practice harder than your actual competition. I try and make things difficult so when I am actually playing a rack things will hopefully be easier.

r/Mike
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One problem with shots of this type is you have a fairly large area you can hit on the object ball and still make the shot. So you might hit this shot 4 times at the exact same speed and have the CB end up in 4 different locations due to cutting the ball slightly thicker or thinner. Using running english will magnify this.
Hitting the 2nd rail half a diamond past the side pocket will give you the best chance of getting straight on the 3 and give you a bigger margin of error speedwise.
Practicing that would be useful. Going 1 rail and trying to stop on a dime falls into the masochism category.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
To answer the original question,

Yes, to a certain extent you are wasting your time because your perception about the shot isn't quite right. There isn't a professional player in the world who will expect to get perfectly straight in on this shot on demand. They will try their best, using all of their experience, knowledge and expertise in order to get there, but they won't be surprised if the cb lands slightly off line.

If there's no other way but perfectly straight, then the pro would try for it and then play a safe shot if the cb lands off line. The pro will also calculate ahead of time which side would be the better side to make the error on --- for example: If the cb travels too far, the player may be hooked. Then it would be better to favor the short side.

Although it's important to strive for precise position, you have to learn how to be flexible enough to adapt, because we aren't perfect.

fran
i sent you a greenie for a great post
:thumbup:
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree with your comments Fran. But when that really poor basketball coach at Indiana University was here for 25+ years there was about only one thing that he ever said that I agreed with. And that was to make practice harder than your actual competition. I try and make things difficult so when I am actually playing a rack things will hopefully be easier.

r/Mike

I hear you and that's fine as long as you don't make your practice habit your reality when competing. But also keep in mind that getting frustrated because you're not being perfect isn't helpful and can even hold you back from improving.

The other school of thought on that is to practice it the way you would play it in competition. That's not such a bad idea either.
 
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