Tournament Rules and Rule Changes

justnum said:

Will the WPA update current policies and procedures to address current issues?


Should referees be present in every match in a tournament, and how many matches can a referee over see at once?

Instant replay calls (use of film), will this be allowed to make official tournament ref decisions?

Racking for 9-ball can be cheated.


How will racking be addressed, there a wide margin in where a rack can sit.

Should the rack be large enough to physically touch three rails to ensure a consistent location?

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If they put in an addendum "players, don't be A-holes", that should be enough.

I do think it's a good idea for a WPA sanctioned event to have several refs for racking duties. I think one for every 4 tables will be enough without players waiting for someone to rack.

They had some rack thing that had a bar/square that stuck out to the end rail, never seen it used by anyone outside of one event. You need the ability to adjust the rack a bit if the balls are not racking properly in that single exact spot, and anything that locks the rack in a single spot is not good. I like the rule that I have seen some tours use, like Zugland's, where you can have the rack high or low if exact center of spot does not rack properly.

justnum said:

Would players in the tournament be allowed to ref, while they are not in a match?

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That would be very strange if they had the players are refs. Only time I could see this is if guy running the tournament was playing in it, like Appleton.

The biggest problem I see is that there is no real Oversight. Not as in a ref, or a TD, but that there is no one to enforce on a larger scale the issues of cheating. I've said this before and I'll say it again, the whole idea of "Pattern Racking" isn't really cheating, it's studying and knowing ball paths. There are multiple patterns that can produce similar results, so really it's nearly impossible to enforce that unless someone is blatantly taking the time to place each ball in the same place every time, which then is asking for issues.

My problem is with opponents who are intentionally putting slight gaps into the rack, tilting the rack, doing things that favor them (if rack your own) or hurt their opponent (rack for each other). There isn't a single rack out there that cannot be manipulated in some way, shape, or form. Neutral racking is a good idea, but also tough to cover considering you would need x # of rackers for multiple days, available without question at every tournament. Also, without neutral rackers, if the game is based on the 2 players at the table, and the "honor system", what is there to prevent someone from trying to gain an edge? When have you heard of someone losing a rack, or match for trying to manipulate the rack? Or being barred from a tournament? There's no real recourse at this time to deter cheating, so can you REALLY fault someone for trying to gain an edge? Until pool really has a sanctioning body that actually monitors certain things, these issues are only going to get worse, not better. As players, we want certain things, but in a lot of ways we are our own worst enemies.

Bob Jewett said:

According to the WSR it is unsportsmanlike conduct which can be penalized by ejection from the tournament and forfeiture of all prize money.

Unless a player is really, really smooth it is obvious when they do patterns.

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Every rule set I have seen specifies the game balls in a certain spot and the rest "placed randomly". So when you start putting balls in specific spots, even if you change the pattern every so often, you are cheating if you place the balls where you want them to be instead of just grabbing them and tossing them in the rack. Often the issue is not the rules, but enforcement of the rules and in some cases even knowing what the rules are. Many events take racking and some other rules in the same vein as speeding laws, it's not legal to do but not often enforced strictly.

The rules may state that, but doesn't pattern racking imply that they are using the same pattern each time? I don't really pattern rack myself because I don't play in any real circumstances where it would benefit me that much, but off the top of my head I can think of 3-4 different 9 ball racks that yield similar results. In these races to 7 or 9, what pattern do you really have time to establish when you can cycle through that rotation twice, 3 times max? Furthermore....When is the last time you can remember a player being barred from a tournament, or ejected from an event for doing this? A rule is only a rule if it's enforced.

I'm all for cleaning things up, so I wasn't trying to be the bad guy. Just playing devils advocate here. When there is nothing to deter people from doing things, why wouldn't they try to gain an edge?

Bob Jewett said:

And I think that's the problem. No promoter/director is bothering to enforce the rules.

An example: I was an area referee (for six tables) at the US Open 9 Ball two years ago. We were told not to go to a table unless requested. The players were told that pattern racking was not allowed. I was watching one match where one player was pattern racking and the other was manipulating the back ball to get the wing ball to go in easily (9 on the spot, template rack). Neither player called me over so I said nothing.

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Right. It has gotten so far out of hand that you really need to possess the knowledge to an extent of racks. I'm nowhere near the skill of these guys to keep up with running out....that being said I feel like I need to know it to even remotely have a chance if ever in that situation.

Bob Jewett said:

Yup. The WPA actually considered total ball position specification for the 2008 rules revision but that was rejected.

A minor nit: some tournaments have specified that the 2 goes in the back (and of course the 1 goes up front).

Paul Schofield has a randomization procedure as part of his "breaker shoots next" rules.

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I don't mind the 2, or 2 and 3 ball placement in the rules actually. I remember when Earl and Efren played in HK, they racked the 2 in the back so it would be in the same place for both players since they were playing the 1 in the side off the break. That way you could have a fair and equal rack for both players without getting too much into the same layout each rack.

djv122385 said:

The rules may state that, but doesn't pattern racking imply that they are using the same pattern each time?

- snip

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You don't need to use the exact same pattern, there was a tournament were Duel was told to stop making the same rack every time, so he would move a ball here and there to another place, but the overall layout and early combo on the 9 was still the same.

All you need to do is modify what ball you rack next to the 9, and what ball you place at the corners if you know the corner ball is going. Put the 2 ball here, 3 ball there, make the 2, you know where the 3 is going. Then place the 3 ball there and the 4 ball there, you make the 3, 4 is next to the 9, make the 1 and 2, then win. Next rack shift 2 by the 9, put 3 on the corner, make the 3 on the break, play the 1, 2-9 combo. Not hard to do if you are allowed to break softer.

You need a true random rack, not just placing balls where you want even if you need to change it up a bit.

It's not even the rule that is the issue many times, it's the fact that a lot of even good players don't know what the rule is. Not just for racking, but lagging, what a legal shot is, is the ball placement based on base of ball or edge of ball, etc...

How many players you guys play that know the lag rules? No practice the lag when match is starting, shoot at about the same time, no crossing the middle, cueball hanging in pocket is a loss, no touching the side rail. I don't know how many good B players and even A players I see that don't know the rules for half of the things that come up. Half of them want to do a "practice" lag. You do the practice lag when you are at the table warning up, not when we shake hands.

hang-the-9 said:

If they put in an addendum "players, don't be A-holes", that should be enough.

I do think it's a good idea for a WPA sanctioned event to have several refs for racking duties. I think one for every 4 tables will be enough without players waiting for someone to rack.

They had some rack thing that had a bar/square that stuck out to the end rail, never seen it used by anyone outside of one event. You need the ability to adjust the rack a bit if the balls are not racking properly in that single exact spot, and anything that locks the rack in a single spot is not good. I like the rule that I have seen some tours use, like Zugland's, where you can have the rack high or low if exact center of spot does not rack properly.

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It is just common sense that the balls quite often need to be racked a little high or a little low, in order to get the tightest rack possible. Twisting/tilting of the rack one way or another is a separate issue. That is why in my opinion, drawing crosshairs on the cloth with a sharpie, with the vertical crosshair extending above and below thetop/bottom of the rack is necessary in order to make sure the rack is squared properly, even if it is a little high or a little low.