Center ball

Hinekanman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I see a lot of pros setup the shot with the tip on the cloth center ball. I assume I know why but curious on the reason. Also if that's what they do and they want to apply say left hand English, do they set up center ball still or left on the cue ball?


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FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
With all aiming systems, whether it's by feel or calculation, you need a reference point. To most players, center ball is that reference point. Placing the tip at low center at setup is a preference by many players because it makes it easier to see the cue ball at that crucial point of the aiming process.
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's called grounding your cue, and players do it to find vertical center on the CB. The only place they can see vertical center is where the CB touches the cloth...hence setting their cuetip aimed at that place.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
 

EddieBme

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's called grounding your cue, and players do it to find vertical center on the CB. The only place they can see vertical center is where the CB touches the cloth...hence setting their cuetip aimed at that place.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

What's the recommended distance to have the cue tip from the cue ball, (when sighting), and warm up strokes?
 

EddieBme

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Very close on the last warm-up...1/4 inch...1/2 inch if you wear glasses.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

Thanks Scott Lee.
On the beginning of the warm up strokes, I'm about an inch or so away from the cue ball. So do I move the bridge hand closer, (to achieve that distance) or do I slide the cue closer?
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Thanks Scott Lee.
On the beginning of the warm up strokes, I'm about an inch or so away from the cue ball. So do I move the bridge hand closer, (to achieve that distance) or do I slide the cue closer?

Dr. Dave Alciatore coined a great term, tip gap, for the space between the chalked tip and the cue ball in the full stance. Most bad players have more than an inch of tip gap.

There should not be post-stance tip gap adjustments. The worst players sit down too far from the cue ball than slide their stroke hand toward the ball to adjust tip gap, ruining arm position.

Skilled players who sit down too far from the ball slide their bridge hand in, not their stroke hand, to shorten their tip gap. However, no pro player, who is even more highly skilled, does this.

The pro either has a small tip gap immediately or stands erect again, moves their feet closer to the cue ball and gets back into their stance. Pros readjust tip gap this way. You should also. Adjust the stance from the feet before getting down, not after.

:)
 

EddieBme

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dr. Dave Alciatore coined a great term, tip gap, for the space between the chalked tip and the cue ball in the full stance. Most bad players have more than an inch of tip gap.

There should not be post-stance tip gap adjustments. The worst players sit down too far from the cue ball than slide their stroke hand toward the ball to adjust tip gap, ruining arm position.

Skilled players who sit down too far from the ball slide their bridge hand in, not their stroke hand, to shorten their tip gap. However, no pro player, who is even more highly skilled, does this.

The pro either has a small tip gap immediately or stands erect again, moves their feet closer to the cue ball and gets back into their stance. Pros readjust tip gap this way. You should also. Adjust the stance from the feet before getting down, not after.

:)

Thanks Matt. Very helpful information.
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here's some different information. Everyone has a measurable personal shooting template. This includes how you stand at the table, bridge on the table, hold the cuestick in both hands, what your warmup cycle is, how far you bend over the cue, how close your tip is, which is related to where you hold your cue on the back end. Timing and sequence training are also included in this. If your grip position matches up with your bridge hand (with tip on CB), you shouldn't have to move either your hand up or your cuetip closer, to get close to the CB.

All of these things are measurable...if you know what and how to measure them. Stance is one of the smallest parts of having much to do with how close you get your tip. That said, stance has a LOT to do with how you line up on the shot, and how accurately you're able to deliver the cuestick. jmo

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Thanks Matt. Very helpful information.
 
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HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here's some different information. Everyone has a measurable personal shooting template. This includes how you stand at the table, bridge on the table, hold the cuestick in both hands, what your warmup cycle is, how far you bend over the cue, how close your tip is, which is related to where you hold your cue on the back end. Timing and sequence training are also included in this. If your grip position matches up with your bridge hand (with tip on CB), you shouldn't have to move either your hand up or your cuetip closer, to get close to the CB.

All of these things are measurable...if you know what and how to measure them. Stance is one of the smallest parts of having much to do with how close you get your tip. That said, stance has a LOT to do with how you line up on the shot, and how accurately you're able to deliver the cuestick. jmo

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Thanks. I have been saying this forever. Things can be measured, but not everybody is "measured the same".

Every player is unique. They may have a style that "looks" like another player, but no two players are exactly the same.

There are tons of players who try to emulate somebody else and it doesn't necessarily equate to making their game better.

People will ask, "how long is Earl's cue", when their arm span is a foot shorter than Earl's. So, using a 70 inch javelin isn't going to make them hit like Earl no matter what they do.

People will say, "bend over like a snooker player". What if the snooker player can bend over 90 degrees at the waist but you are 300 pounds? That shit isn't going to work.

If you are 6 feet 5 inches tall, you aren't going to be able to bend over and "see" the same way as a 5 foot guy. Your eyes will be farther from the balls than the short guy. The short guy may have to alter his stroke because he has a harder time reaching up to table height. For example, people who learn to play pool as a kid, usually cock their wrist a bit to the side because they learned to do it in order to keep their swing above table level.

In order to play pool to the best of your ability, you have to find out what works best for YOU. Then you have to practice until it becomes second nature and until it is ingrained into your mental and physical memory. That's not to say, you can't make little adjustments to improve, it's just saying you can't make dramatic changes that aren't going to work for you no matter what you do.

I can watch people and see what they are doing wrong, but it takes a lot of convincing to get them to change bad habits. Habits can be changed, but you can't change people's physical characteristics or "perceptions". It is kind of like trying to explain aiming to someone. Everybody eventually learns how to aim at some point (maybe not very well), but you can't make them see what you see. Everybody's mind interprets things a little bit differently.

For me, I am pretty damn close to the same distance from the cue ball on every shot. I know exactly where my bridge hand is going to be and my grip hand before I ever get down on the ball (assuming the table layout allows me to position my body correctly). I also know how far my follow through is going to go be by where I place my bridge hand and how far my body is away from the table.

I hold my bridge about 10 inches from the tip and my grip hand is about 2-3 inches down the wrap on 90% of all my shots. That is where my cue is balanced for me and that is where I've figured out what works best for me (my stance, my visual perception, stroke, follow thru, squirt, swerve, etc.). Because I have a "baseline" that I have figured out, I'm not constantly guessing when I'm trying to make minor adjustments to something.

Just because we can train somebody to bend over like Mosconi, stroke like Mosconi, use a cue like Mosconi's, etc. doesn't mean they will ever shoot like Mosconi.

Basic fundamentals are the foundation for a good game, but not every fundamental will be the same for every player (stance, stroke, bridge, etc.).
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Respectfully gents,

Who is a great player who plays with a two-inch tip gap? A three-inch tip gap? There are certain fundamentals that are near-universals. There are no pros who slide their bridge in or stand a foot too far from the cue ball and cock their arm at a 75-degree angle to close their tip gap.
 

goettlicher

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Respectfully gents,

Who is a great player who plays with a two-inch tip gap? A three-inch tip gap? There are certain fundamentals that are near-universals. There are no pros who slide their bridge in or stand a foot too far from the cue ball and cock their arm at a 75-degree angle to close their tip gap.

Nobody I know.

randyg
 

JC

Coos Cues
Respectfully gents,

Who is a great player who plays with a two-inch tip gap? A three-inch tip gap? There are certain fundamentals that are near-universals. There are no pros who slide their bridge in or stand a foot too far from the cue ball and cock their arm at a 75-degree angle to close their tip gap.

Here is a pretty good player who addresses the cue ball kind of far away.

https://youtu.be/xSNizrSDeZY?t=176

JC
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Looks to be a little less than a ball at closest address, so about two inches.

You may have noticed even that player kept jiggling his tip closer to the cue ball to finish his last practice strokes, before pulling the trigger--looked like inside two inches to me but I didn't look closely.

Two inches from the ball is 80% of a typical cue ball's size off the cue ball. You risk missing the point of cue ball aim as the final stroke lunges past where you took practice strokes.

Using a rap stroke, I can be over an inch out, but try some shots with the two-inch gap, full strokes with the backstroke bringing the ferrule all the way back... timing becomes incredibly tricky.

I'm not going to allow my students to use massive tip gaps and I'm not going to suggest they use a McCready or Hoppe set of fundamentals, either. :smile:
 

pooltchr

Prof. Billiard Instructor
Silver Member
All of these things are measurable...if you know what and how to measure them. Stance is one of the smallest parts of having much to do with how close you get your tip. That said, stance has a LOT to do with how you line up on the shot, and how accurately you're able to deliver the cuestick. jmo

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Something I learned from Fred Smith (CEO FedEx) years ago.
"You can't manage what you can't measure"
He was talking business, but it applies to pool as well.
 
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