When is english necessary?

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
if we agree the shot line is thru the true vertical axis of the cue ball and center of the cue ball that is parralel to the parralell picture
then the bhe stroke forward vector is away from the shot line and the "magic spot " of the cue ball
if we dont agree on that
the we can agee to disagree
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Lots of words of that don't make much sense in this thread.

I cringe every time I hear someone use the phrase "parallel english". I understand that this is a method of employing english that many people use but the term is misleading. Bottom line is -- there's only one angle of attack that the cue can be on when using english. How you get to this angle is up to the user. If you don't believe this is true, and you use parallel english, observe what happens when you use a bridge.

All roads lead to Rome when it comes to english.

The pro method of employing english doesn't exist and if you run into an instructor telling you otherwise, you may want to consider finding a different instructor.

Now here comes the "let me clarify" post.

No, with the kindest of intentions, here comes a correction post, respectfully.

Photo 1 and Photo 2 show two angles of approach to strike the same point on the cue ball:

*the bridge hand is in different locations in relation to the cue ball, one dead center, one shifted over, providing two different angles of approach

*we can choose different angles of approach on the same cue ball point to jump a cue ball into the air instead of roll it

*we can choose different angles of approach on the same cue ball point to cut in two different shots at two differing cut angles

*therefore, no one could possibly believe the cue ball will take the same path along the cloth before contact with the object ball in the two different photos, regardless of what you believe about the amount of sidespin generated

*the difference in approach angle can therefore give the unwary player the illusion of a different amount of sidespin

*there are times to shoot parallel and times to shoot pivot or backhand

Most pros use all three techniques, pivot usually being rare (tight cluster of interference balls or a pack safety at an odd angle, etc. -- I mean, who wants to shoot diagonally and take diagonal-line practice strokes?), parallel being a nice little aiming aid for those small distance shots working the cue ball a short distance as well, backhand--and this is important--a very slight amount close to cue ball center in most cases. Most people who deny the benefits of backhand english have only tried it at great distances from cue ball center.

I don't teach one type of english exclusively, but yes, get another instructor if you are learning pet theories not backed by human anatomy, physics and geometry. Those are the three musts in pool instruction IMHO.

The pro method of english is to use efficient strokes, the stroke needed for the shot at hand. Parallel is difficult to control over a distance... and a number of calculations must be added. Dr. Dave's site has more on this.

Your "use a mechanical bridge" concept is excellent! Now take different shots on the same point of the cue ball while rotating the mechanical bridge's hand to account for the difference between a parallel line of approach and a pivot line, noting the difference in ball direction and roll and spin.
 
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BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
if we agree the shot line is thru the true vertical axis of the cue ball and center of the cue ball that is parralel to the parralell picture
then the bhe stroke forward vector is away from the shot line and the "magic spot " of the cue ball
if we dont agree on that
the we can agee to disagree

Of course we agree! I love to agree.

Think about the whole stroke, next, like you said, the forward stroke vector:

The tip moves in Photo 1 from parallel to true vertical axis on the cue ball (end of backstroke) through that line to same parallel line/spot.

The tip moves in Photo 2 from on the true vertical axis to away from the true vertical axis, winding up in the same exact spot as Photo 2. Advantages include spinning the globe/top more easily, a better perception/feel/look at shot aiming since we're working from center ball/bridging from center ball, and a stroke that doesn't pop the cue ball with a punch but slides along its circumference (so to speak) . . .

It's not a "thing" or some kind of established pool convention, but I've spoken with some pros and top road players, and those who love them, about concepts they call "every stroke to center", that is, the backhand movement that brings a lot of strokes toward or away from center vertical axis on the backstroke, at impact, at follow through . . .

You should also know that--being on one of my many crusades this week--I've been offering free pool lessons specifically on english to anyone on the thread, regardless of whether they want to fight with me on the thread or not--and people are loving what they're learning. Take me up on it.
 
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FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My pretty hand. I know I'm near miscue distance but it was exaggerated for effect. The mass of the cue/direction is nearer center mass of the cue ball with pivot than parallel.

I was just looking at the bridge hand. Maybe it's the angle of the photo. The hand position looks a little weird.
 

Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Back in the day when I first started out I couldn't grasp why I was missing Everytime I used English. So not liking to be beat I spent a good couple of weeks playing an hour a day hitting every single shot with maximum side spin. After a couple of weeks I was improving and after a few months I didn't fear side spin. I had a decent understanding of "if I hit here and in this direction the pot with go in". Fancy methods are all well and good for intermediate players. They are no good to beginners until they play around and see how the balls react... And they're no good to higher level players, well, because they've done all their playing around.

Oh never mind!
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
I was just looking at the bridge hand. Maybe it's the angle of the photo. The hand position looks a little weird.

I have my hand less turned in at the wrist than some. I sometimes "aim" my middle and fourth fingers at the shot a bit and exaggerated that here.
 
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FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have my hand less turned in at the wrist than some. I sometimes "aim" my middle and fourth fingers at the shot a bit and exaggerated that here.

Yep. That's what I mean. I can't give a completely logical reason right now why I don't like that hand position, but there's something about it that bothers me for a closed bridge position. I will have to think about it more, but off the top of my head, it has to do with the parts of the hand that the cue touches and also a visual issue. There may also be a balance issue as well. I'll have to do a little more research to be certain.
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Shot the photos years ago, but I remember looking through my hand at the length of the cue. Should probably reshoot them but the photographer was a novice player and I wanted to make sure the cue length was correct for parallel/pivot. I should have instead used a rake and set it up myself.
 
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