Question about hand-making cues

Snooker Theory

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi, I enjoy trying to make cues in my spare time, yet to produce anything decent, they usually go right in the rubbish after I finish . My equipment basically matches my skill level.

I wondered if anyone could point in me in the direction of U.S. cuemakers who do most of their building by hand as opposed to most of the work done with lathes and cnc machines.

Maybe some names of forum posters, or good books/videos to buy on the subject?

I know a lot of snooker cues are made mostly by hand(joints done with lathe of course), couple examples below.

*EDIT* Apparently the two videos I initially picked were bad examples after some input I was lucky enough to receive from a couple respected members.
I think this video is maybe a better representation of what I am trying to accomplish.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5CHxUmXT3U&feature=youtu.be&t=3m5s

*EDIT*

Here are the two videos I first referenced, which were not the best example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgF6kIxY0S0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbZVui2C4zg


Thank you for any guidance
 
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qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
I fail to see a hand made cue in either video. All I see is some limited hand planing & hand sanding. I'm comfortable saying that my basic plain jane has more hands on time than any of those snooker cues from the videos. What they don't show in the videos says a lot more to me than what they do show. It's apparent that they want you to believe the cues are hand made. That sentiment must mean something to their target market. But the reality is that those cues are made with saws & lathes just like ours are. To split hairs, I bet I spend more hand time making ring work for a cue than they do making the entire cue.

Not to pick & argue, but I believe cues made with CNC are at least as hands on as any other cue. The CNC only controls the machine. The cue is still built, piece by piece, by the maker. The maker also has lots of hands on time & effort into programming the CNC. How many snooker cues could Thomas Wayne produce in the time it takes him to create one of his masterpieces? I don't see any videos of those guys wearing magnifying lenses & using needle point tweezers, spending countless hours to fit & glue inlays.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not attempting to diminish the work it takes to make a snooker cue. I'm only pointing out that if you're going to consider something hand made in comparison to something else, then you must compare every aspect of both builds. Hour by hour, task by task, custom pool cues are more hand made than the snooker cues shown in the videos.
 

Snooker Theory

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thank you for taking the time to reply, You make some of the prettiest cues I have ever seen,amazing attention to detail! I think very highly of your opinion.

I honestly don't know to what extent the makers in the videos use equipment, I do agree they try and make it seem as the the cues are made using as little machinery as possible. There are a few hobbyist(that don't sell their cues) that post over on the snooker forums that posted longer videos of the build process, a few it seemed they made solely by hand and hand tools(1 piece cues), but I know so little its very possible that I am mistaken.

I am not knocking the use of equipment or think it in anyways diminishes how much a cue is considered made by hand, I just personally don't have a lot of money to invest into equipment to build cues as of right now.

I should have said that I am interested in building cues with the least amount of equipment as possible, and wondered what books or cue makers might match up to that strategy.

Thank you
 

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
I should have said that I am interested in building cues with the least amount of equipment as possible, and wondered what books or cue makers might match up to that strategy.

Thank you for the kind words :)

To be honest, I wouldn't encourage you to make cues without a lathe. Whether you get a big machine lathe and set it up for cue work, or you buy a cue lathe already equipped, you should have some way to accurately turn. Beyond this, the equipment you need will be determined by the designs you wish to execute & the way you want to accomplish it. My shop is lamely equipped by any cue making standard, but I manage to build every cue I set my mind to and they generally turn out well.
 

Snooker Theory

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have built a couple different lathes(and I use that term loosely), still have two set up, a drill lathe and a bead machine which I converted over. I have been researching various lathes on here, and check the FOS area to see if something outrageously good.
I'll take some pictures soon of all the stuff I have and some of the stuff I am playing around with, lol.. everyone can have a good laugh :)

Totally understand what you mean about the need for a good lathe. Although, even without a lathe just using the crappy stuff I have built, I still have a lot of fun learning, I have just been using scrap wood that would have been tossed(and isn't anywhere near good enough for a cue), there is no loss other than my time, and since its really fun for me, its a nice way to decompress after work or school. I like using the hand lathe and seeing how close I can get the cue to round, and using the dremel and chisel to try and do inlays.
 
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Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I fail to see a hand made cue in either video. All I see is some limited hand planing & hand sanding. I'm comfortable saying that my basic plain jane has more hands on time than any of those snooker cues from the videos. What they don't show in the videos says a lot more to me than what they do show. It's apparent that they want you to believe the cues are hand made. That sentiment must mean something to their target market. But the reality is that those cues are made with saws & lathes just like ours are. To split hairs, I bet I spend more hand time making ring work for a cue than they do making the entire cue.

Not to pick & argue, but I believe cues made with CNC are at least as hands on as any other cue. The CNC only controls the machine. The cue is still built, piece by piece, by the maker. The maker also has lots of hands on time & effort into programming the CNC. How many snooker cues could Thomas Wayne produce in the time it takes him to create one of his masterpieces? I don't see any videos of those guys wearing magnifying lenses & using needle point tweezers, spending countless hours to fit & glue inlays.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not attempting to diminish the work it takes to make a snooker cue. I'm only pointing out that if you're going to consider something hand made in comparison to something else, then you must compare every aspect of both builds. Hour by hour, task by task, custom pool cues are more hand made than the snooker cues shown in the videos.

I count 3 lathes behind Mr. Parris and Mr. O'Sullivans back at 2:20... :D
 

Snooker Theory

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for stopping by Kim and Eric, I am pretty bad with the terms, I guess my first example videos, were a bad example, I edited my initial post to better reflect what I was asking.

If you have 2 minutes, and this isn't me in the video, but I am making cues in the same type of fu**ery as the guy below, or at least how he is trying to imply he is doing it.

I mostly hand plane things down, then use my shitty drill lathe I made to try and smooth it out, I get a lot of vibrations with the thing I made, so works better for using sandpaper to get a finish, than to actually taper down a butt or shaft.

https://youtu.be/o5CHxUmXT3U?t=3m5s
 
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Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Building round and tapered stuff by hand is kinda difficult. That`s why I think the video from the Parris shop you posted isn`t entirely truthfull.
The new video you posted really shows how hard it is to do and also in that video he is using a drill to spin the cue.
I think the reason snooker cues see more manual labor (i.e planing) is that big lathes isn`t as common as in the US. I have the same problem over here in Norway, finding a used lathe with a 38mm or bigger bore and 800 to 1000mm between centers isn`t as easy as it is in the US.
So snooker cues are made in a simpler way, due to limitations in machinery. English billiard (snooker) culture is more conservative, so new ways of doing things are looked down upon.
 
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Snooker Theory

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is a bit off topic from my original post, but I would in the near future like to have a cue built for me. I like heavy cues, 24-25 ounces, with a butt weight of 20 - 21oz.

Do you think it would be possible to get a 28"(my preference) or 29" merry widow butt made and have it just naturally weighted(as opposed to using a weight bolt)?

The cue I play with now is 25oz, but the weight bolt is so long and just makes the cue feel so back heavy.


Thanks
 

Snooker Theory

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Building round and tapered stuff by hand is kinda difficult. That`s why I think the video from the Parris shop you posted isn`t entirely truthfull.
The new video you posted really shows how hard it is to do and also in that video he is using a drill to spin the cue.
I think the reason snooker cues see more manual labor (i.e planing) is that big lathes isn`t as common as in the US. I have the same problem over here in Norway, finding a used lathe with a 38mm or bigger bore and 800 to 1000mm between centers isn`t as easy as it is in the US.
So snooker cues are made in a simpler way, due to limitations in machinery. English billiard (snooker) culture is more conservative, so new ways of doing things are looked down upon.

I think doing it this way is challenging, it is sorta like doing a job with the wrong tool for the work, using a stick to hammer a nail, so to speak.

My problem with buying a nice lathe, or even just a decent one, is I have no intentions of ever being a professional cue maker or trying to sell cues, so it is a large investment.

Plus, its not like the lathe and cnc just magically spit out awesome cues, there is a vast learning curve to use the programs properly, attention to details, wood selection, and there is no shortage of great cue makers already in the market. I do enjoy doing it so I might invest the money anyways.

Thanks for your thoughtful post, it's quite interesting to me the the difference between cultures that exist to this day between snooker and pool.
 

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is a bit off topic from my original post, but I would in the near future like to have a cue built for me. I like heavy cues, 24-25 ounces, with a butt weight of 20 - 21oz.

Do you think it would be possible to get a 28"(my preference) or 29" merry widow butt made and have it just naturally weighted(as opposed to using a weight bolt)?

The cue I play with now is 25oz, but the weight bolt is so long and just makes the cue feel so back heavy.


Thanks

I think doing it this way is challenging, it is sorta like doing a job with the wrong tool for the work, using a stick to hammer a nail, so to speak.

My problem with buying a nice lathe, or even just a decent one, is I have no intentions of ever being a professional cue maker or trying to sell cues, so it is a large investment.

Plus, its not like the lathe and cnc just magically spit out awesome cues, there is a vast learning curve to use the programs properly, attention to details, wood selection, and there is no shortage of great cue makers already in the market. I do enjoy doing it so I might invest the money anyways.

Thanks for your thoughtful post, it's quite interesting to me the the difference between cultures that exist to this day between snooker and pool.

Last post first:
Buying a lathe to make yourself a cue seems a bit excessive, I totally agree with you on that.
Making a cue with basic tools can be done, but I think you might not enjoy the process as much as you think. Working with plastics, LBM, phenolic etc is not as straight forward as planing or sanding a piece of wood.
CNC is both expensive and it takes a long time to be proficient in programing.
As for you second post, I`m not sure how close to 25oz you could come without adding any weight, and more importantly I`m not sure if such a cue would play well or have a nice feel to it.
You would have to build the cue from only the densest woods, I think there is a chance you will end up with an unresponsive baseball bat...
I encounter people with "extreme" needs from time to time. Wanting very, very light cues, very heavy cues, weird tapers, very small tip diameters, strange ideas about joint pins etc. I`m not really dismissive , but I try to point out that these hangups often are a result of trying to compensate for stuff in their game, or just having ideas based on a wrongfull understanding of physics, technique etc.
It`s a reason cues are between 57- 60" with a close to 50/50 split and a weight somewhere between 17-21oz and tip diameter is allmost always bewteen 11.75 - 13mm.
Before you spend any money, I would try some more cues, and really, really think about why you need such a heavy cue.
 

Snooker Theory

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My roommate got me into using a heavier cue, though I previously had a masse cue which was heavy and I always loved the feel of it, just a bit short to shot with.

Anyways, He had a whole logic behind it, I just hit his cue and liked it, been through a few cues since then and always went back to a heavy cue.
Might be a stroke flaw on my end, I wouldn't say I shoot better with a heavy cue, just feels better to me.

I enjoy doing trick shots and have transitioned away from using a masse cue since switching to a heavier player. It does seems easier to do masses with the heavy cue, maybe just in my head though.
 

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My roommate got me into using a heavier cue, though I previously had a masse cue which was heavy and I always loved the feel of it, just a bit short to shot with.

Anyways, He had a whole logic behind it, I just hit his cue and liked it, been through a few cues since then and always went back to a heavy cue.
Might be a stroke flaw on my end, I wouldn't say I shoot better with a heavy cue, just feels better to me.

I enjoy doing trick shots and have transitioned away from using a masse cue since switching to a heavier player. It does seems easier to do masses with the heavy cue, maybe just in my head though.

Yes you kinda proved my point, you really want the cue to do something it`s not really designed for. I have a local player who has a hangup on jumping balls, he is really good at it and has like 5 or 6 jump cues in his bag and he doesn`t really enjoy playing unless he can use the jump cue all the time.
I would find a cue (or have one made...) in a more normal weight range, probably on the heavier side of normal since you prefer more weight, and if you really enjoy trick shots and massè shots, I would buy a (or have one made) speciality cue for just that purpose :smile:
Mezz has the Florian Kohler MA-FK cue, it`s about $1200!
I`m sure there are others that sells or makes massè cues for a more reasonable price.
 

Paul Dayton

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you have a sturdy 6ft. or longer work bench, the right wood, good planes, a tapered long V grooved board clamped to the bench, making a cue without a lathe could be done. The ferrule might be a problem but as seen in the Parris video it is possible.. If you cut the wood with enough uniform passes with a plane, it would be easy to sand the final product round. 4 cuts is a square, 100 cuts is effectively almost round. With some experimentation with the plane, you can do the taper you want. Straightness can be tweq
 

whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
I can send out my Christmas cards and seal the envelopes with sealing wax......... but that is a little labor intense and old fashion..... but can be appreciated by some................... but instead, I lick the envelope flap, stick it and mail it.............

Don't try to live in the stone age................. get a lathe made for cue building.


Kim
 

ideologist

I don't never exaggerate
Silver Member
Do you think it would be possible to get a 28"(my preference) or 29" merry widow butt made and have it just naturally weighted(as opposed to using a weight bolt)?

Uncored Ebony or African Blackwood will be your friend! I had a Brunswick one-piece Ebony butt. It weighed 20oz by itself and was 27" long. I'm sure a standard sized cue will be similar in weight.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
I have no clue why anyone would want a cue heavier than 21 oz.
 
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JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Have you played with a nice cue over 21 ounces for any given period of time?

Yeah, it tired my arm. lol
My late mentor loved 21 oz / 60" cues.
And he only played on bar boxes. He was 6'5" .

Over 21 just do not make sense to me unless you really like slipping that cue.
Even then, 21 oz is plenty.
 
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