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11-26-2014, 09:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kot_Bigemot View Post
But Mike, here is great example:
.....
All that could be sent in Pm and yet, it MUST be posted, just to bump the threat? PLEASE!
Something must be done to prevent posts like that.

CORRECT.....

I AGREE. SOMETHING NEED TO BE DONE SO WE CAN ENJOY THE FORUMS BETTER

Let's help the site by not posting on someone else thread. PLEASE

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11-26-2014, 10:23 PM

I like the ideas a lot. Limiting the threads by membership sounds fine. Limiting to only the OP bumping sounds good also. I agree with whomever pointed out the difficulties put in play by subforums based on price but like the subforums by, cues for sale, and cases and accessories being seperated. Thanks for all your efforts and work, I hope everyone has a good thanksgiving.

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11-27-2014, 12:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzHousePro View Post
There is no way that I am aware of to only make OP posts bump a thread. From what I know of the inner workings of vbulletin, it would not be very easy to do.

Mike
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Buyer Questions Should be Posted
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Buyer Questions Should be Posted - 11-27-2014, 01:38 AM

Heck, even on eBay I see buyer questions and seller answers to the auction listing that prove helpful and informative. Sellers disclose meaningful information at times when they attempt to reply to a buyer's question.

The exchange of information is what helps to educate others with cue-maker information and cue details. What if a seller misleads another buyer with their answer or avoids the questions like saying something "the shafts are basically straight as anything on AZ....." or "Most of Bill Stroud's cues from the mid 70's didn't even have a logo....".

I'd want to know what kind of bullshit seller this person was even if I wasn't interested in the cue listed for sale because I'd want to remember who that seller was since I wouldn't want to do business with them. Being able to read the exchange of posts involving the seller is equivalent to observing their actions thru watching and discerning their statements which is really equivalent to their actions. This is instrumental to learning who the good sellers are and spotting the bullshit or dishonest types. There are actually several Azers I'll avoid doing business with after witnessing their posts and thread answers and had that feature not been in place, I'd have never known......don't remove that feature.

If you stop the posts, then you have to mandate a compete cue description and insist upon a template to list the important details and also a statement attesting to the cue being straight together and apart or a denial about the cue being straight. The vital cue date listed needs to include shaft weight, size (mm), butt weight, balance point, joint type, balance point, mention of any and all ivory, etc. Sellers all too often omit some of this and it's only by seeing these posts exchanged when an Azer asks about some aspect of the cue that the information becomes public. Sellers do not always go back and edit their original thread by adding more information.

Another consideration is the seller's original thread price, that isn't working, doesn't have to change. Consequently buyers don't become educated about cue values in a secondary market environment because they wouldn't get to read the posts exchanged on some cue sale threads.

I'll give you an example.......The seller lists the cue for $1599 shipped and no offers.....lots of calls but no offers at $1599......so the seller starts telling inquirers he'll let it go for $1359 shipped but he doesn't change the original thread price thinking that this will sound like a great discount to the next inquiry about the cue. Again, more inquiries are forthcoming but still no offers and the seller doesn't change the original thread which he keeps bumping and keep in mind threads are listed by origination date.

So now the seller starts telling inquiries about the cue he'll let it go for $1249 but still no offers but it's been 7 weeks now so the seller changes the thread price to read $1299 plus shipping thinking this will appeal to a different audience but still no offers and so he starts telling inquirers $1149 shipped.......eventually the cue does sells but for $1050 but it's a far cry from the original thread asking price of $1599......and then of course the seller goes back and deletes the price in the thread as "sold". So during this whole time that stretches out over 3 months.....readers of the sale thread only saw the cue listed for $1599....then $1299....then sold which ultimately turned out to be for barely over a $1000.......suppressing posts and this type information does not educate readers about the genuine condition of the resale market and it becomes highly misleading.

If you make this change, then you should require that all cue sale threads ad perpetuity include the sale price of the cue or item being sold. This way every AZer can always acquaint themselves with "actual" cue sale prices. This is the only way for AZers can become educated about "current" cue values and what a likely cue is worth if they were interested in buying it. It also enables assigning a more realistic sale price for a pool cue they may want to sell. This is the learning process on the Forum and how people become knowledgeable about cue values otherwise it's pushing chips all to the side of the cue dealers or people that sell a lot of cues here on the AZ Forum.....as buyers, we need to know more about how the cue market performs and what cues are worth and which sellers are people we might want to avoid doing business with.

There's an educational value to witnessing this happen for cue buyers and just imagine if the being sold had an original asking price of $5895 (say an older fancy Bill Schick cue) but it eventually sells after 4 months $3775 plus shipping. Heck, I want to see that cue sale struggle documented via the exchange of posts, etc. I want to firsthand observe what the seller attempts to do sell the cue and how he addresses the lack of interest in the cue thread. I want to read why the cue he described with a supposed value of almost $6k isn't selling after say 3-4 months listing with bumps every 48 hours by the seller. This is how we learn about the resale market & removing this changes the knowledge & learning curve for the AZ community.

I learned how incredibly weak the current resale market presently is (4th Qtr 2014) through recently following very closely two (2) handsome Joel Hercek ivory joint cues struggle selling on AZ for what seem like a extended period of time. I watched the sellers anguish over the lack of "any offers" and gradually reduce their asking prices over time. Eventually both cues did sell but cues sold for well under $4000.....18 months ago those cues sell for over $5k....it was only by seeing these sellers post their frustration, ridicule the resale market, post price drops each time stating it was the final price drop and just read their answers to questions, it's all genuinely helpful and therefore should not be suppressed.

Why not just allow the OP to be the only person that can bump and they can't do it sooner than 48 hrs? Meanwhile, allow all of the posts to continue appearing on the sale thread which, of course, presumes you can program that. All in all, it should be able to done by setting permissibility privileges and consequently, only the OP and the Mods can delete, edit or bump any sale thread.

In any event, including public posts on a sales thread histiory, being able to read the seller's documented answers to questions.....things a seller could claim about a cue that was in reply to a posted question, it's all really important stuff. This is how Azers become educated about cue values which is through information exchanges and it's also how to spot bullshit or less than honest sellers. This is very important since as buyers, we purchase at our own peril, And despite the escrow urging by the Forum, which to be completely candid is mentioned mainly to protect the Forum, as buyers we need every tool imaginable and so taking or materially changing a learning tool that's been in place for awhile, well, it just sets us all as buyers backwards.

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*Bob Owen Custom- Level 8 (s/d 4-24-16) - Flat Ivory Joint
*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 6 (s/d 5-4-16) - Flat Ivory Joint

*J. Rauenzahn Custom - Level 8 (s/d 2-23-15) - Flat Ivory Joint
*Ed Prewitt Custom '05 - Level 8 - Flat Ivory Joint
*Bob Owen Custom - Level 8 (s/d 5-4-14) - Flat Ivory Joint
*Tim Scruggs Custom (9-6-95) Level 7 - Flat Ivory Joint
*Runde Schon '85 Custom "R" Series (1 of 1)
*Palmer (Original) - '72 (All Cocobolo Wood)

Last edited by Bavafongoul; 11-27-2014 at 03:15 PM. Reason: mo stuff
  
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11-27-2014, 08:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzHousePro View Post
There is no way that I am aware of to only make OP posts bump a thread. From what I know of the inner workings of vbulletin, it would not be very easy to do.

Mike
If that is the case. I think you should be able to change all replies including the OP not bump the thread and implement a bump button where the OP can click on every 48hrs or 72hrs.

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11-27-2014, 09:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzHousePro View Post
We can limit the # of threads that someone can create in the for sale area based on their user type. I am leaning towards the following system:

Bronze Members can create 2 new threads in the wanted/for sale area every 30 days
Silver Members can create 5 new threads in the wanted/for sale area every 30 days
Gold Members can create 20 new threads in the wanted/for sale area every 30 days
This is all good, 20 new threads is more than enough for a Gold member. I believe everyone posting some thing for sale must have at least a Bronze membership

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzHousePro View Post
It has been suggested that we only allow the original poster to reply to a thread. If buyers have questions, they can send them to the poster via pm. That change would do away with the bump scamming and then we could go back to showing the last active threads at the top of the forums. We would still only allow bumping every 48 hours with the possibility of limiting silver members to a bump every 72 hours. It is just a thought.
I like this idea as well.

As far as sub-forums, I would keep it very simple:

1. Cues
2. Cases
3. Accessories
4. Wanted

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11-27-2014, 11:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzHousePro View Post
OK gang, after reading the (constructive) feedback from users and mulling over some options that I think can still accomplish what we want to do here, I have removed the requirement to use Panjo for new items being posted.

Panjo is still there, partly because there are a number of items in there and I don't want the people who are selling those items to lose them in there. If you want to post an item in Panjo, you will have to click the "sell an item" button in there. If you want to just post an item on the forums, feel free.

Now for what I am thinking about doing...

We can limit the # of threads that someone can create in the for sale area based on their user type. I am leaning towards the following system:

Bronze Members can create 2 new threads in the wanted/for sale area every 30 days
Silver Members can create 5 new threads in the wanted/for sale area every 30 days
Gold Members can create 20 new threads in the wanted/for sale area every 30 days

I might consider a "business member" account type that has a much higher limit, if any.

It has been suggested that we only allow the original poster to reply to a thread. If buyers have questions, they can send them to the poster via pm. That change would do away with the bump scamming and then we could go back to showing the last active threads at the top of the forums. We would still only allow bumping every 48 hours with the possibility of limiting silver members to a bump every 72 hours. It is just a thought.

I am opening this up for discussion and I will read each and every post in this thread. I want actual constructive discussion though.

The first post that says "Change Bad. Make it like it used to be. You suck. Team USA is going to lose because of you" will end up taking a vacation from the forums. If you think I am talking about you here, you are right Coco.
Problem #1: over bumping wasn't the real problem. It was one user having 10 threads within the first 15 thread when you opened up this subsection.

Problem #2: when bumping did become a problem, the OP was punished. Not the people doing the illegal bumping.

While your solutions seem adequate, they are highly unneeded. Limit the number of for sale threads all people can have active. That alone will reduce the number of problems. If you want to sell 15 cues, well you now get one thread instead of 15 to spam the forums with. Limit replies to to the OP and once every 48 hours. You can go ahead and limit the number of threads we start, but it still won't solve the problem of one person having 10 active for sale threads clogging the first page of the for sale subsection.

This really all started when you guys made the rule that the OP would be punished for the actions of others in their thread. A very short sighted rule to begin with that showcases the lack of willingness to truly do the right thing. I'm sorry if you feel this is an attack on you, but the problems have been around for years and the solutions you keep coming up with fail.
  
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11-27-2014, 01:58 PM

Also limit new threads to one per day so they can't glut up the front page with 20 postings on day one.....maybe 3 new ones for gold, 2 for silver and one for bronze.


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11-27-2014, 04:45 PM

Lol I second that ^^^^^^ USA USA USA!


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11-27-2014, 05:43 PM

I like everything you said but I like the idea of a simple subforum.
Production cues
Custom cues
Cases
Other pool related material

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Panjo and Marketplace changes part 2
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Panjo and Marketplace changes part 2 - 11-27-2014, 07:08 PM

I like separated sub-forums like this.

Cues
Cases
Miscellaneous

Note: The only thing I liked about Panjo was the simplicity of the above and that folks outside of AZ MIGHT see my listings. The method to which they merged into the AZ listings yet was in a completely separate tab was no bueno. Cost me a lot of issues to be quite honest.


Regarding the separation of cues by price range, eh not so much. Gets a little confusing to me. HOWEVER, how about a filter if the user shall choose a range???

Regarding account types, I'm surprised that there aren't more folks that are supporting AZ as gold, even some outstanding members.

I think there should be a platinum level or business account with some special perks. People do want these things and will pay for them. I would depending on the price. No one asked me to be gold, I just went ahead and did what I thought was fair and just ponied up the whole $35.


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11-27-2014, 08:20 PM

Once its back to a better place can we remove or consolidate the stickey's? Maybe get it down to 3 or 4...

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11-27-2014, 08:31 PM

I like this idea much better. The main thing being limiting people from making too many individual posts and only letting them bump.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AzHousePro View Post
OK gang, after reading the (constructive) feedback from users and mulling over some options that I think can still accomplish what we want to do here, I have removed the requirement to use Panjo for new items being posted.

Panjo is still there, partly because there are a number of items in there and I don't want the people who are selling those items to lose them in there. If you want to post an item in Panjo, you will have to click the "sell an item" button in there. If you want to just post an item on the forums, feel free.

Now for what I am thinking about doing...

We can limit the # of threads that someone can create in the for sale area based on their user type. I am leaning towards the following system:

Bronze Members can create 2 new threads in the wanted/for sale area every 30 days
Silver Members can create 5 new threads in the wanted/for sale area every 30 days
Gold Members can create 20 new threads in the wanted/for sale area every 30 days

I might consider a "business member" account type that has a much higher limit, if any.

It has been suggested that we only allow the original poster to reply to a thread. If buyers have questions, they can send them to the poster via pm. That change would do away with the bump scamming and then we could go back to showing the last active threads at the top of the forums. We would still only allow bumping every 48 hours with the possibility of limiting silver members to a bump every 72 hours. It is just a thought.

I am opening this up for discussion and I will read each and every post in this thread. I want actual constructive discussion though.

The first post that says "Change Bad. Make it like it used to be. You suck. Team USA is going to lose because of you" will end up taking a vacation from the forums. If you think I am talking about you here, you are right Coco.
  
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11-27-2014, 11:15 PM

I like linking # of threads to membership level.

I understand the difficulty in only allowing OP to bump while keeping threads open for questions/answers/discussions...but I do feel there's been a wealth of info over the years from some of these threads. I've never had issues with identifying a hyped-up cue vs. a true gem that everyone in the know is excited about. Being the only relevant internet bazaar for cues, I feel these discussions are vital to collectors/enthusiasts in general.

If you can somehow isolate bumpage to the OP, while keeping responses to FS threads alive...you'd have the best of both worlds, imho.


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11-28-2014, 12:28 PM

Agreed ^^^^^


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