9 foot table slightly under or over 50"x90"

S

Sweatin'

AzB Silver Member
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[OBVIOUSLY MEANT TO SAY 50x100 BUT CAN'T EDIT TITLE]



In continuing to look for an older Brunswick table, I'm running into this fairly often where a mechanic tells me up front the playing surface will likely wind up being slightly under 50x100 by 1/4" to 1/2". In the case of one mechanic here who is currently on a little vacation, I believe he said the problem was a slight size difference in the new Superspeed rubber but that it didn't make sense to do it any other way and not to worry about it. Now comes another restorer who says that he will install K55 rubber but the dimensions could be over by as much as 1/2". He says he's not gonna cut the cushion seats for that amount. I'm assuming that in both instances it would be the same both ways and the table would remain square.

Question is, is this a big deal? I'm far from a good player but I am serious about the game and equipment. Is it possible that these tables were always like this?

I'm just wondering how much importance to attach to this. I could obviously just forget about an old Anniversary or Centennial and get a Diamond but I prefer the looks and provenance of the old Brunswick.
 
Last edited:
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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Sweatin' said:
[OBVIOUSLY MEANT TO SAY 50x100 BUT CAN'T EDIT TITLE]


...Now comes another restorer who says that he will install K55 rubber but the dimensions could be over by as much as 1/2". He says he's not gonna cut the cushion seats for that amount. I'm assuming that in both instances it would be the same both ways and the table would remain square...
Click to expand...
First, it doesn't remain square. If it was an inch in each dimension you would be at 101 by 51. That's not 2:1. On the other hand, it is unlikely to be noticeable.
 
Humboldthero

Humboldthero

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It's a long term investment. My first table I just went with a decent looking Brunswick (Orleans) trusting the reputation not knowing much more than it was a reputable brand and the table was in good shape on visual inspection. Skip to now. I skimped on install and felt after researching tables and looking for player recommendations through this forum. Obviously the preference here is GC or Diamond. I bought a good Brunswick Sport King on the cheap through Craigslist after learning they are a "players table". Long story short I'm happy with my ugly table but wish I would have spent a grand on the garage install rather than less than half that for a mediocre job and felt. Live and learn.
 
S

Sweatin'

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Humboldthero said:
It's a long term investment. My first table I just went with a decent looking Brunswick (Orleans) trusting the reputation not knowing much more than it was a reputable brand and the table was in good shape on visual inspection. Skip to now. I skimped on install and felt after researching tables and looking for player recommendations through this forum. Obviously the preference here is GC or Diamond. I bought a good Brunswick Sport King on the cheap through Craigslist after learning they are a "players table". Long story short I'm happy with my ugly table but wish I would have spent a grand on the garage install rather than less than half that for a mediocre job and felt. Live and learn.
Click to expand...

Did you grab the Sport King on CL that was up in Alpharetta?

That one was a nice looking table.
 
TX Poolnut

TX Poolnut

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I suppose the first thing to go would be any banking systems that depend on the 2:1 ratio that every pool table is built around. After that, maybe rail shots don't go into pockets correctly. I can't think of much more.
 
ROB.M

ROB.M

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Table

Sounds like one is offering to use the k66 and the other offers to use k55 <~ Brunswick superspeed is only offered in k55 profile. The original monarch superspeed cushions are a touch smaller than the current make of brunswicks superspeed cushions.
In order for the table to play as intended by the manufacturer you will be required to have the angle where the cushion meets the wood modified to accept the k55 superspeed cushions or none of the aiming sights or simple mathematical shots come out to be correct.
If you like your money and want the table to have real value I'll suggest to have the modifications completed to accept the new k55 cushions.



Rob.M
 
Dan_B

Dan_B

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I’d suggest acquiring the art of adjustments on out of square tables.
 
L

Low500

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Sweatin' said:
[OBVIOUSLY MEANT TO SAY 50x100 BUT CAN'T EDIT TITLE]In continuing to look for an older Brunswick table, I'm running into this fairly often where a mechanic tells me up front the playing surface will likely wind up being slightly under 50x100 by 1/4" to 1/2". In the case of one mechanic here who is currently on a little vacation, I believe he said the problem was a slight size difference in the new Superspeed rubber but that it didn't make sense to do it any other way and not to worry about it. Now comes another restorer who says that he will install K55 rubber but the dimensions could be over by as much as 1/2". He says he's not gonna cut the cushion seats for that amount. I'm assuming that in both instances it would be the same both ways and the table would remain square.
Question is, is this a big deal? I'm far from a good player but I am serious about the game and equipment. Is it possible that these tables were always like this?
I'm just wondering how much importance to attach to this. I could obviously just forget about an old Anniversary or Centennial and get a Diamond but I prefer the looks and provenance of the old Brunswick.
Click to expand...
If you're looking for a beautiful piece of furniture as an investment that won't depreciate.....there is nothing better than something Mark Gregory has worked on and built. He's the boss. You're going to pay the price, though (as it should be)
On the other hand, if you want something to go in a basement or an outside building strictly for rehearsing drills over and over and over in preparation for gambling or tournaments, any old table will do...if it has good solid support for the slates.
Get a first class installer who is a pool player and will understand what you want. He'll tell you quick if you need new rubber for the rails....most times you don't. You gotta' trust him a little there.
Have the pockets shimmed up to 4 1/4 and make certain he isn't stuck with the old fashioned plaster of paris to the seams. Heated wax in the seams and then razored off smooth leaves no dust to accumulate under the cloth.
You can take a 4x8 oversize (with the 48x96 playing surface) with shimmed up 4 1/4 inch pockets and it will be a training ground you will never forget.
Unless you're headed for the big league tournaments where the pockets are all 4 1/4, you'll rob local and regional players on regular commercial equipment. You'll be so used to having to split the pockets on your training table that you'll be stunned when a ball goes in after hitting 1/2 diamond down the long rail from the pocket.
The pockets of those Valley 7 footers will look like washtubs to you.
The Diamond 7 footers are tougher, but you'll be trained on those tight pockets at your home base. Won't bother you at all.
Use the table for 5-6 years then sell it off dirt cheap and get another one. Simple and you don't spend an arm and a leg.
Keep on truckin';
:thumbup:
 
fastone371

fastone371

Certifiable
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Bob Jewett said:
First, it doesn't remain square. If it was an inch in each dimension you would be at 101 by 51. That's not 2:1. On the other hand, it is unlikely to be noticeable.
Click to expand...

Thats exactly why I spent all the money on my pristine GCI when I put new cushions on. Everyone said it would only change playing area by a 1/4" but nobody mentioned anything about it not being 2:1 anymore.
 
fastone371

fastone371

Certifiable
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Low500 said:
If you're looking for a beautiful piece of furniture as an investment that won't depreciate.....there is nothing better than something Mark Gregory has worked on and built. He's the boss. You're going to pay the price, though (as it should be)
On the other hand, if you want something to go in a basement or an outside building strictly for rehearsing drills over and over and over in preparation for gambling or tournaments, any old table will do...if it has good solid support for the slates.
Get a first class installer who is a pool player and will understand what you want. He'll tell you quick if you need new rubber for the rails....most times you don't. You gotta' trust him a little there.
Have the pockets shimmed up to 4 1/4 and make certain he isn't stuck with the old fashioned plaster of paris to the seams. Heated wax in the seams and then razored off smooth leaves no dust to accumulate under the cloth.
You can take a 4x8 oversize (with the 48x96 playing surface) with shimmed up 4 1/4 inch pockets and it will be a training ground you will never forget.
Unless you're headed for the big league tournaments where the pockets are all 4 1/4, you'll rob local and regional players on regular commercial equipment. You'll be so used to having to split the pockets on your training table that you'll be stunned when a ball goes in after hitting 1/2 diamond down the long rail from the pocket.
The pockets of those Valley 7 footers will look like washtubs to you.
The Diamond 7 footers are tougher, but you'll be trained on those tight pockets at your home base. Won't bother you at all.
Use the table for 5-6 years then sell it off dirt cheap and get another one. Simple and you don't spend an arm and a leg.
Keep on truckin';
:thumbup:
Click to expand...

Shimmed pockets generally do not play very nice. If the pockets miters are incorrect (which most are) they will still be incorrect after shimming. The other downside to shimming is that even though you are making the pocket tougher by being narrower you will be decreasing the pocket shelf which will make it play easier. You are probably best off with a 4 1/2" pocket but having the sub-rails and pockets fixed properly for the table and cushions you will use. It costs more but you will have a better table in the end.
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sweatin' said:
It's a big investment, and it seemed to make sense to ask folks who might know more on the subject than I do.

Clearly, not you but thanks for the clever response.
Click to expand...

Dont sweatin things that dont actully make a difference, sweathar-in.
 
S

Sweatin'

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Black-Balled said:
Dont sweatin things that dont actully make a difference, sweathar-in.
Click to expand...

And all you ever had to say was that it didn't make any difference. I'm not Carnak the Magnificent and lack the experience to know on my own, therefore the question.

If everyone had your vast storehouse of knowledge there'd be no such questions, right?

And doing a search here and on "Talk to a Mechanic" seems to yield mixed opinions.
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

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Silver Member
Sweatin' said:
And all you ever had to say was that it didn't make any difference. I'm not Carnak the Magnificent and lack the experience to know on my own, therefore the question.

If everyone had your vast storehouse of knowledge there'd be no such questions, right?

And doing a search here and on "Talk to a Mechanic" seems to yield mixed opinions.
Click to expand...

I don't think any of us woul be measurably better or worse with a rail that is 1 or 2% off, really.
 
L

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
fastone371 said:
Shimmed pockets generally do not play very nice. If the pockets miters are incorrect (which most are) they will still be incorrect after shimming. The other downside to shimming is that even though you are making the pocket tougher by being narrower you will be decreasing the pocket shelf which will make it play easier. You are probably best off with a 4 1/2" pocket but having the sub-rails and pockets fixed properly for the table and cushions you will use. It costs more but you will have a better table in the end.
Click to expand...
Wrong.
(but nobody will ever convince you of that, so please don't get it started)
 
S

Sweatin'

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Black-Balled said:
I don't think any of us woul be measurably better or worse with a rail that is 1 or 2% off, really.
Click to expand...

I do agree that in my case anyway at my skill level it's not likely to make a whole lot of difference.

The question is, will losing the exact 2:1 length/width ratio cause the table to play "funny"? I'm not looking to make it play like a Diamond, just acceptable in terms of how it played originally. In reading opinions in "Talk to a Mechanic", especially in the dustup on the subject between Trent from Toledo and Mark Gregory, the issue is no more settled than Ford vs. Chevy at a monster truck jam.

You hate to pay top price for a fully restored table only to have to drop another 3K or whatever to get Mark Gregory to come straighten it out. But then again, it's also hard to believe that all the old Gold Crowns out there have had complete rail recalibrations done when the rubber got replaced. In fact, I'm sure most have not and nobody complains about how they play so there you go.
 
Jimmorrison

Jimmorrison

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree that it would most likely not make any real difference, but it would be in your head. I would not want that for a home table.
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jimmorrison said:
I agree that it would most likely not make any real difference, but it would be in your head. I would not want that for a home table.
Click to expand...

Do you ceck your car's tire pressure before each drive?

Seriously? Coz a 1psi difference is way more of a deviation than an inch is to a pool table.

You can be sweatin' these little things.

Keep on truckin:thumbup:
 
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