I don't know if you realize this but there is an automatic pause or stop going from back to forward in a stroke.
Cue Acceleration - Thoughts?
- Thread starter blehnhard
- Start date
I don't know if you realize this but there is an automatic pause or stop going from back to forward in a stroke.
Yeah, you can't bring the cue back then forward without a pause. What I mean though is a distinct pause that allows the body and head to settle and remain still.
Not if you use a continuous loop stroke like many of the Filipinos use.
If it was a true loop then I would agree with you but from what I have seen in their stroke it is kind of a combination of a piston / loop and they do have a slight pause in there stroke if you watch it carefully.
Maybe not all of them do it. Maybe not every single stroke with those who do, but I've seen it, and the continuous loop definitely exists. Usually, for those who do it, the pause is at the cue ball prior to the final stroke, which is continuous.
It depends on how you define "pause". I define a pause as a time when both the speed of the stick is zero and the acceleration of the stick is zero.
By the definition you seem to be using, a piston in a car engine has a pause at top dead center and bottom dead center. By my definition it does not.
A stroke that has a pause (by my definition) at the end of the backswing is very different from one that does not.
I am with you on your definition, I was just clarifying on here that there is a pause no matter how small it might be to change directions from back to forward. (some people need that)
vr Jim Baker
But I am saying that there is no pause in the movement of a piston in a car engine by my definition nor is there a pause in many billiard strokes at the end of the backswing.
A pause in a pool stroke would require no forward force on the cue at the end of the backstroke.
Many, many players do not play like that. Instead their muscles start applying forward force towards the end of the backswing which first brings the speed of the stick to zero and then changes it to forward. There is no non-zero period of time when the stick is not moving for them. Not even a microsecond. Not even a nanosecond.
The triceps pull the cue back. Once the triceps relax the the lower bicep muscle begins to close the arm bringing the cue forward. That physical action takes time no matter how small the time period may be.
It may appear that their is no pause on the back swing but there is and is different with each individual based on their personal timing and rhythm.
My hat is off to those players who have great timing and rhythm. Its pretty to watch.
Its impossible to accelerate the cue thru the cue ball. (unless of course if the cue was to travel at ludicrous speed which would probably result in the cue shattering and both balls exploding upon impact
) The cue ball is a static object. The cue weighs approximately 3 times more than the cue ball. Once the cue strikes the cue ball the cue will stop moving forward for an instant and then continue on its forward journey until the finish of the stroke is reached.
It has been my experience that I can feel the cue penetrate into the cue ball with my grip hand. It feels like the cue tip is going into the cue ball about 1/4" to 1/2".
John
It may appear that their is no pause on the back swing but there is and is different with each individual based on their personal timing and rhythm.
My hat is off to those players who have great timing and rhythm. Its pretty to watch.
Its impossible to accelerate the cue thru the cue ball. (unless of course if the cue was to travel at ludicrous speed which would probably result in the cue shattering and both balls exploding upon impact
) The cue ball is a static object. The cue weighs approximately 3 times more than the cue ball. Once the cue strikes the cue ball the cue will stop moving forward for an instant and then continue on its forward journey until the finish of the stroke is reached.It has been my experience that I can feel the cue penetrate into the cue ball with my grip hand. It feels like the cue tip is going into the cue ball about 1/4" to 1/2".
John
Last edited:
This also begs the question - is it "force" or "momentum" that makes the follow through?
Force would predicate that additional muscular effort is being used post impact with the CB.
Momentum would predicate that the cue is moving at a certain (desired) speed at impact with the CB. Impact with the CB would cause the cue to begin to slow down and the follow thru would cease when momentum has ceased. Picture the cue unattached to anything, moving freely at a certain (desired) speed and then striking the CB. Cue would continue forward but slowing past impact.
Sort of like when the CB strikes an OB. There is no additional force being applied to the CB. The OB absorbs some (or all) of the momentum of the CB (depends on angle of impact) and CB slows as momentum wears off (friction).
Good discussion - Thanks - Bruce
Force would predicate that additional muscular effort is being used post impact with the CB.
Momentum would predicate that the cue is moving at a certain (desired) speed at impact with the CB. Impact with the CB would cause the cue to begin to slow down and the follow thru would cease when momentum has ceased. Picture the cue unattached to anything, moving freely at a certain (desired) speed and then striking the CB. Cue would continue forward but slowing past impact.
Sort of like when the CB strikes an OB. There is no additional force being applied to the CB. The OB absorbs some (or all) of the momentum of the CB (depends on angle of impact) and CB slows as momentum wears off (friction).
Good discussion - Thanks - Bruce
The QB is a static object and force of the stroke is required to get the QB to move.
Once the amount of force is decided on for the shot (slow, medium or fast cue stick speed) then the momentum of the cue takes over to finish.
Like I stated in my earlier post the cue weighs approximately 3 times the weight of the QB. Very little use of muscles (in any) are required to force the QB forward.
To prove the point concerning force try this, holding the cue with only the tip of your index finger and thumb pad hit some balls around for a while. Just open and close your shooting arm. When you do this exercise you will want to feel thru your thumb pad and index finger pad that the tip of the cue is penetrating the cue ball. Just a small amount.
It is a good discussion.
John
Last edited:
Regarding continuous motion vs. pause at the end of the backstroke: I think that we have to look at whether or not the player is moving the cue back and forth in a straight line or looping it towards a forward motion. I think that if the player is bringing the cue back and forth on the exact same line, there would have to be a pause as the directions shifts.
However, there are players who move the cue in a straight line nearly all the way to the end of the back stroke with the smallest loop towards the forward motion that can't be detected by a spectator, thus it appears that they are moving the cue back and forth in the same straight line without a pause.
However, there are players who move the cue in a straight line nearly all the way to the end of the back stroke with the smallest loop towards the forward motion that can't be detected by a spectator, thus it appears that they are moving the cue back and forth in the same straight line without a pause.
There are different strokes. If you take an abbreviated final backstroke, there may be a little extra force involved. If, however, you stroke back all the way to the rear of your bridge--to near the bridge hand's fingers, you should get a lot of momentum by the time you are back near the cue ball.
Matt -
In general, there would be 2 types of basic strokes. Same size backstroke - varying rates of acceleration to achieve desired speed at contact with CB.
Varying lengths of stroke using a constant acceleration pattern. Shorter strokes = less speed at contact with CB.
Certainly, players would use minor variations of either to suit a particular shot, and most players would use both types as the need arose.
I have found if I try to "make a follow through" (tip on the table), I do worse than if I just let the FT be whatever it is - not trying to decelerate, but not trying to add any force past impact. Sort of like you would just be letting go of the cue as it strikes the CB - it was totally unattached to you.
Bruce
In general, there would be 2 types of basic strokes. Same size backstroke - varying rates of acceleration to achieve desired speed at contact with CB.
Varying lengths of stroke using a constant acceleration pattern. Shorter strokes = less speed at contact with CB.
Certainly, players would use minor variations of either to suit a particular shot, and most players would use both types as the need arose.
I have found if I try to "make a follow through" (tip on the table), I do worse than if I just let the FT be whatever it is - not trying to decelerate, but not trying to add any force past impact. Sort of like you would just be letting go of the cue as it strikes the CB - it was totally unattached to you.
Bruce
I'm referring to the ratio of stroke length to bridge length. If you have, say, a 9" bridge and take a 3" final backstroke, you have to thrust the cue through a bit. If you take a 8" backstroke with a 9" bridge, you don't need to consciously apply acceleration to accelerate and make a lovely follow through, too.
Here is a nice UT of Shane playing Darren.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63GzN8Y6s_c
The UT shows some very nice close ups of Shane's stroke. I have watched it a few times and can't decide if Shane is rolling the QB or pushing the QB. I can say this, he is not hitting the QB as in a jab stroke.
What ever method he is using this is the kind of stroke to keep in mind when practicing.
Smooth and comfortable. I really like his approach to the stroking of the QB.
Hope this helps some.
Have fun
John
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63GzN8Y6s_c
The UT shows some very nice close ups of Shane's stroke. I have watched it a few times and can't decide if Shane is rolling the QB or pushing the QB. I can say this, he is not hitting the QB as in a jab stroke.
What ever method he is using this is the kind of stroke to keep in mind when practicing.
Smooth and comfortable. I really like his approach to the stroking of the QB.
Hope this helps some.
Have fun
John
Well if you want to get technical, it's neither. It's 'cue ball.' There is no official abbreviation for cue ball, so it might as well be QB.
I played in a pool room every day for 7 years called the Golden Q. As far as I can tell, nobody corrected them.