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11-17-2017, 06:26 PM

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Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
I am right handed shooter and right eye dominant.
I lined up for years in the old fashioned mosconi way...(Jimmy Reid refined it for me.....AFTER he busted me once. And I was getting 8-5 on the money on each game in 8 ball. He beat me like a drum.)
When I began the CTE journey, I quit the mosconi stuff and I began lining up on an offset like Shuffett teaches and then shifted (pivoted or whatever they call it) into the shot line.
Staying down was never an issue...I forced that into my playing when Reid analyzed it 30 years ago.
But I see now where if if one of those feet gets away from where it's supposed to be, things get weird. Again, thanks for bringing it up.

Mizerak told me, if you start missing, to FIRST go to slowing down the backstroke.
SECOND, tighten up the grip hand. (Strickland and Wiley and Billy Johnson all advocated this remedy. On the other hand, Tony Ellin said it was insane. I asked Lassiter about it once, but those old bandits wouldn't reveal a thing...in fact they'd lie, just to keep you "in your place".)
Mizerak continued.."If you keep missing, then there is nothing left but alignment...IF you know how to aim."
My game is back in gear again. Not big league quality, but good enough to rob anybody I can get in a trap. I don't make bad bets...it's my way or no way. That's all that matters to me.
Keep on truckin'

Can you elaborate on what Reid said to you about your stroke? Im just curious and I'm also interested on the feet.
  
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11-17-2017, 07:44 PM

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Originally Posted by hogie583 View Post
Can you elaborate on what Reid said to you about your stroke? Im just curious and I'm also interested on the feet.
Jimmy didn't say anything about my stroke. What he suggested was that I get out of that mosconi semi-upright stance which I learned as a kid by reading mosconi's little red book about pocket billiards. Where the shooter's back wasn't bent very much. He emphasized that mosconi was in a half table game with his straight pool and seldom was faced with long distance like in 9-Ball or 8-Ball. It was important to get down lower on the shots. That didn't come easy either....old habits and beliefs don't go away easily. Unlike the game of golf where there were always coaches and instructors around, back then there were few coaches (who could play for money without choking under pressure and knew what they were doing) for the game of pool. But Reid still advocated stepping into the shot from the 'port arms' position with the cue...unlike the top players of today who approach from an angle. (He was not very "sociable" until after he had won my money)
I don't know what the feet being out of kelter does because I don't spend time fooling around with the "why" when it comes to pool. All I care about is the "how". I'm just guessing that when one of them is not in the location that has caused consistency that it throws the alignment off somewhat and the result is undercutting ,overcutting , and putting unwanted spin on the cue ball instead of getting that pure solid hit.

Last edited by Low500; 11-17-2017 at 07:50 PM.
  
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11-17-2017, 10:20 PM

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Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
Jimmy didn't say anything about my stroke. What he suggested was that I get out of that mosconi semi-upright stance which I learned as a kid by reading mosconi's little red book about pocket billiards. Where the shooter's back wasn't bent very much. He emphasized that mosconi was in a half table game with his straight pool and seldom was faced with long distance like in 9-Ball or 8-Ball. It was important to get down lower on the shots. That didn't come easy either....old habits and beliefs don't go away easily. Unlike the game of golf where there were always coaches and instructors around, back then there were few coaches (who could play for money without choking under pressure and knew what they were doing) for the game of pool. But Reid still advocated stepping into the shot from the 'port arms' position with the cue...unlike the top players of today who approach from an angle. (He was not very "sociable" until after he had won my money)
I don't know what the feet being out of kelter does because I don't spend time fooling around with the "why" when it comes to pool. All I care about is the "how". I'm just guessing that when one of them is not in the location that has caused consistency that it throws the alignment off somewhat and the result is undercutting ,overcutting , and putting unwanted spin on the cue ball instead of getting that pure solid hit.
Personally, I think all forms from upright to low on the cue has its advantages and I like to use them all but I must admit it's hard to remember when focused on a game or objective. I got so many alignments and you name it, I really have to take some time out now and catalog them on paper and start cooking up a preshot routine.

For me personally, and I think because the way im built, if my foot, especially the right one, is even a little off of required position, the hips shift or twist and then my right shoulder gets way off base and that is usually a disaster when trying to keep my shooting elbow down the line or out. My dead natural position that I got to fight constantly is elbow in like Orcollo and its necessary for some shots, but disaster for most.....but that's me.

I'm sure many if not all have this sort of problem where it starts from the feet and works its way up to some degree. Im well formed for golf but not pool really.

Another thing I've found is the mechanics change enough or dramatically so, as soon as your hip or stomach or leg makes contact with the table, especially when stretching out for a shot. That's why a snooker table is so tough if you are a "pool player"...... My opinion though.

Hey, I heard Mosconi whipped the shyte out of steve Davis playing snooker on a 5x10.....rumor goes. Have you heard that before?
  
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11-18-2017, 06:15 AM

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Originally Posted by paultex View Post
Hey, I heard Mosconi whipped the shyte out of steve Davis playing snooker on a 5x10.....rumor goes. Have you heard that before?
I doubt that game ever happened.
Mosconi, being the no-gamble nit he was, wasn't about to expose himself to the skills of that Brit sharpshooter.
Just my opinion.....
  
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11-18-2017, 07:33 AM

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Originally Posted by paultex View Post
...........

Hey, I heard Mosconi whipped the shyte out of steve Davis playing snooker on a 5x10.....rumor goes. Have you heard that before?
Very doubtful, unless it happened when Davis was a kid. Willie was in his late 60's, past his prime, by the time Davis was dominating the snooker scene. You can watch clips of Willie playing in the 1980's.....it's obvious he no longer had the skills needed to beat a player like Davis, especially on a snooker table.


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11-18-2017, 10:19 AM

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Very doubtful, unless it happened when Davis was a kid. Willie was in his late 60's, past his prime, by the time Davis was dominating the snooker scene. You can watch clips of Willie playing in the 1980's.....it's obvious he no longer had the skills needed to beat a player like Davis, especially on a snooker table.
Oh?......well I don't see you stepping up to play either one of them, so..........

Hee hee!
  
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11-18-2017, 10:41 AM

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Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
I doubt that game ever happened.
Mosconi, being the no-gamble nit he was, wasn't about to expose himself to the skills of that Brit sharpshooter.
Just my opinion.....
Possibly you knew who Sax Delporto was?

I've always asked the same question of the upright straight pool stance and all those legendary players who used it, if they could play rotation type velocity games and the answer is always yes yes they can blah blah blah. As if they can do anything and never missed, which I have also heard rumors of etc etc.

Well, where are these guys who could do all the this and that's? We got Efren, siegel, hall, parica and Varner, and that group combined along with strikland and a few others, we're basically impossible to beat and they "missed".

Any way, I knew Sax personally and yes, with the upright stance and in his 70's and 80 years of age, the guy had tremendous fire power and wasn't any where near the player he used to be and was said to be one of the best position players ever and I believe it.

He used to go around pool halls as "the masked marvel" and if you could beat him, you got some money or something. It was common knowledge he could run out nine ball into one hole. Not every time or else it turns into another "story" you constantly hear out there like Mosconi whippin ass on Davis blindfolded shooting with is left foot etc etc......but Sax and his abilities were quite well true. The guy was a very special player but even he himself admitted when I asked him, because varner was coming to town and I never seen a world champion play before in real life, if he played better position than Nick and he said "HELL NO, Nick is a world champion and can do ANYTHING, you'll see".

He was basically right from what I did in fact see. Dead cold out of the car from an all day drive, nick put his cue together, broke a full rack of 15 balls and ran it out first try in rotation, on a severly tight triple face pocket, gold crown 2.......piece of cake and everyone applauded.

I scratched my head and asked a friend what the hell was the big deal? Talk about ass licking at its finest.....he said, "dude, he ran it out in sequential order".

Ohhhh? Ok, gotcha lol, I didn't know or realize that lol.....wow yeah, let me get in line fo sum of dat butt lick'n.

What a dumbass i was for not realizing that. True story.
  
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11-18-2017, 11:22 AM

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Originally Posted by paultex View Post
Oh?......well I don't see you stepping up to play either one of them, so..........

Hee hee!
I'd love to play Davis just to pick his brain and study his form/shooting style. He is also a great chess player. As far as Mosconi, I'm sure I'd run over top of him now.


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11-18-2017, 12:01 PM

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I'm not proving it's voodoo. If anything, the math proves how and why it works on a great number of shots, and how or why it doesn't work on other shots. I know I'm late reaching thus assessment, as Dr Dave probably figured as much a few years ago. None of this matters to those who have been working CTE for a few years. But it might help those who are still struggling to make it work consistently.!
Dr. Dave hasn't figured out anything about CTE and bringing his name up doesn't add one ounce of reality to your opinion.
  
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11-18-2017, 01:37 PM

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Dr. Dave hasn't figured out anything about CTE and bringing his name up doesn't add one ounce of reality to your opinion.
I'm just rehashing his exact assessment of CTE as stated here....http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#CTE.

I reached my assessment through mathematics and table time. Not sure how Dr Dave reached his, but it's pretty spot on with what I've found. He even provides a table showing bridge/pivot adjustments needed for varying distances between the CB and OB. Either he got that from one of Stan's DVD's or he calculated it like I've done. Can't remember if it's in the first DVD....been too many years since I watched it.


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11-18-2017, 01:58 PM

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I'd love to play Davis just to pick his brain and study his form/shooting style. He is also a great chess player. As far as Mosconi, I'm sure I'd run over top of him now.
No doubt, much could be learned from a guy like Davis. If Strikland picks his brain, then that's enough proof right there and there's a video somewhere, perhaps TAR, where Strikland talks about a particular modified snooker stance he uses from Davis as well.

Davis is the only player I've seen, amongst a deluge of players i "hear" do this, but they don't, and that is, keeps his head perfectly still. He's the only one I've seen, short of mr Shuffett himself, who also strokes down the line extremely well, but still not as good as Davis in that regard as well.

Im positive there are others but never the ones i "hear" about. Its as if people see what they want to believe or something.

That takes me to your video you recommended about ignoring rails and other visual distractions and just engraining the shotline based on the aim line. I got to be honest, I didn't get much out of that video but what I did take away from it, is that you do a very good job of getting underneath the objective and breaking it down for what it actually is.

Your recent pivot/angle work is obviously compelling at the very least IMO, and I would say the filler in the gaps you are finding, if true according to bottomline angle attacks, is simply a miss alignment of some sort on particular shots that need another nuance to satisfy the requirements.

Brian, your findings are based on pure paper analysis, correct? If we juxtapose your stroke mechanics into the mix, then obviously the whole experiment or trials get thrown out the window.

You gots dat helpin stroke fo sho mang. Reminds me of Efren, but I don't think it works well with CTE. But this isn't about your stroke, just trying to clarify something.

Thanks.
  
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11-18-2017, 02:06 PM

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I'm just rehashing his exact assessment of CTE as stated here....http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#CTE.

I reached my assessment through mathematics and table time. Not sure how Dr Dave reached his, but it's pretty spot on with what I've found. He even provides a table showing bridge/pivot adjustments needed for varying distances between the CB and OB. Either he got that from one of Stan's DVD's or he calculated it like I've done. Can't remember if it's in the first DVD....been too many years since I watched it.
DR. Dave as a reference. He's been told for years that he has bad info about CTE on his site. He doesn't care that he has false info. Now you use him as a reference. Don't you think if the how was that easy Stan would also know it. Do you realize how long the argument about the HOW has gone on, years.
This is exactly why all discussions should really stop and everyone should save there energy for when the book comes out.
  
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11-18-2017, 04:59 PM

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No doubt, much could be learned from a guy like Davis. If Strikland picks his brain, then that's enough proof right there and there's a video somewhere, perhaps TAR, where Strikland talks about a particular modified snooker stance he uses from Davis as well.

Davis is the only player I've seen, amongst a deluge of players i "hear" do this, but they don't, and that is, keeps his head perfectly still. He's the only one I've seen, short of mr Shuffett himself, who also strokes down the line extremely well, but still not as good as Davis in that regard as well.

Im positive there are others but never the ones i "hear" about. Its as if people see what they want to believe or something.

That takes me to your video you recommended about ignoring rails and other visual distractions and just engraining the shotline based on the aim line. I got to be honest, I didn't get much out of that video but what I did take away from it, is that you do a very good job of getting underneath the objective and breaking it down for what it actually is.

Your recent pivot/angle work is obviously compelling at the very least IMO, and I would say the filler in the gaps you are finding, if true according to bottomline angle attacks, is simply a miss alignment of some sort on particular shots that need another nuance to satisfy the requirements.

Brian, your findings are based on pure paper analysis, correct? If we juxtapose your stroke mechanics into the mix, then obviously the whole experiment or trials get thrown out the window.

You gots dat helpin stroke fo sho mang. Reminds me of Efren, but I don't think it works well with CTE. But this isn't about your stroke, just trying to clarify something.

Thanks.
What I like to do is sketch something out, do the math, then go to the table and aim exactly where the math tells me to aim. Of course this isn't standard play, it's just a method of testing ideas, a scientific approach I suppose.


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Thumbs up I won't happen. - 11-18-2017, 06:10 PM

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This is exactly why all discussions should really stop and everyone should save there energy for when the book comes out.
Cookieman....that won't make a bit of difference to the soothsayers. None whatsoever.
They will still find 'something isn't right'.
If Moses himself came back to earth, parted the Red Sea, and did a demonstration of the CTE aiming with an Egyptian king's sword.....they still would say "something isn't right".
They're obsessed with science, diagrams, protractors and T-squares, probably slide rules too (if they can find one nowadays), "so and so said this", "so and so said that", "it is not accurate"...............Man, it can go on forever. (If I had to go through all that stuff to shoot pool balls, I'd quit and take up golf)
They're not going to study any book, video, even personal instruction at the Temple in Israel,.............NONE of it will matter one bit.
That's why people like CJ Wiley and Stan Shuffett packed up and got the hell out of town. Why go through the grief......
  
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11-18-2017, 08:36 PM

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What I like to do is sketch something out, do the math, then go to the table and aim exactly where the math tells me to aim. Of course this isn't standard play, it's just a method of testing ideas, a scientific approach I suppose.
Exactly. The numbers don't lie, so what you are deducing is basically one of two things. There's a extra inherent help of judgment or stroke/alignment compensation or simply or a open mind of "it" being released in the book, correct?

Or perhaps a bridge distance measurement is in order and hasn't been examined yet? Im not sure if you factored a bridge distance constant in your examinations but I would think you did. A varying bridge distance would change the calculations for sure.

Let me get one thing straight and anyone who knows for sure, please respond if you like.

Question, in CTE developed by mr Shuffett, the end result before pulling the trigger is.....a center cueball strike of your shaft tip, relative to what?

The visual perception or the shotline itself, based on center to center axis points?

I've heard Stan reference or state at least once about shots, not sure if it runs the entire zero to 45 realm or all shots, like I said im not sure......as "straight in's".

Does this mean a 30 degree cut for instance looks like a straight in to your vision at address, and a offset to compensate?

Don't understand what he meant by that but thanks in advance.
  
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