You can't help most people get better at pool.

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
I know I've ranted about this before, but I swear I'm not really bitter or angry about it at all. Mostly I'm puzzled by it. I see tons of people doing the same things for YEARS on end. They only improve marginally, and some not at all. They keep making the same stupid mistakes, playing with the same shoddy technique. And when you finally crack from watching them do the same thing 5 times and blaming everything but the true cause, and try to give them a hint, they ignore it. Most of these people have been ignoring the same obvious flaws for years before that. Many of them even paid for instructors and then ignored them when they pointed out what would be obvious for even the most poorly trained observer. Then you have the guy who's constantly trying new things, and one small hint can improve his game greatly.

The point is not really to whine about this fact of life, but rather to give my theory about why this is so. I believe that you cannot get better at this game, unless you are willing to make changes, major ones at that. You have to be able to gamble once in a while on doing something that may set your game back for a short while, to get long term gains as long as it is based on sound technique. It's rare to see someone do this and not have it pay off in the long run. But you need discipline, self belief and a strong motivation to do so. That is what many people lack. It's strange to see people who are barely playing the game at a 1year level (after playing for 10 times that amount of time), being so afraid to do anything new for fear of ruining their game (lol). If you've played for 10 years and can't run a rack more than once a week, you truely have nothing to lose. Might as well go for it.

The lack of flexibility and discipline is holding so many people back and is a purely mental block. Nothing stops these people from getting better other than their minds. This game is played 90% in the mind, once you get past the C level, IMO.

Even good fundamentals are mostly mental. Once you learn how to do stuff, you need to remember the exact methods and apply it in a disciplined way. That has very little to do with strength, or hand to eye coordination (if it is anywhere near a reasonable, non-challenged level). Pool is an awesome game. You don't need power, speed or even great intelligence to be decent at it, yet extremely few people can even get to a respectable level where they run racks reliably. It's a mystery that is deeply fascinating.
 
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RiverCity

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
giphy.gif
 

Ched

"Hey ... I'm back"!
Silver Member
Just try to stay focused, concentrate on your fundamentals, stay down on the ball, follow through, and enjoy the game - you'll get better.
 

pmata814

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What should i try differently? I'm willing to try it and be disciplined.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree with the OP, but I believe it goes much deeper than that. Most people are sheep, not shepherds. Which means, they are followers, not leaders. They want and need someone to tell them what to do all the time. (which is why the add industry pays so well).

They are creatures of habit. As long as they get the same routine every day, they are content to go along with almost anything. (which is why it takes bombing cities to get people to move away from bad areas)

Once these people have to break their routine, they become very flustered and agitated. They fear facing the unknown much more than they fear whatever circumstance they are currently in. They would like things to be better, but greatly fear doing anything that would change their current comfort level.

About the only way I have seen to change people like this is to make things so bad for them that they fear it worse than change, or, which works quite well, is to have someone constantly telling them what to change and how to do it. They will follow if led, and feel comfortable doing so.

Which is why instructors fail to help some, they are only there for a short time, and can only really help those that are willing to help themselves when shown the right way to do things. The others need a coach, and there are very, very few of those around for pool. Plus, they then need the coach all the time to be comfortable. If that coach they had is no longer available, they will seek out another coach. Even accept one that actually hinders their game. I have seen this happen before.
 

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If all of this discussion is how to get a C level player to an strong B or A level - here is my input- I have rarely seen anyone get to a A level in this game without devoting some portion of their LIFE to the game- that means they spent a MINIMUM of one year( after reaching a C level) playing IN A POOL HALL IN CONSTANT- oftentimes DAILY COMPETITION, for CASH, against other A level and above players. Coaches, solitary practice, books,videos, etc. are all fine and good to a point- but this game- at its higher levels- is way more dependent on so many small factors ( mechanics, rhythm, timing, focus etc.) that my experience shows that almost daily exposure to developing all of these parts of the game in do or die situations against very good competition is what really brings out those that have it and those that never will. You just cannot develop the superior player skills in a vacuum - that goes for any sport. Talk to any higher level player- A - and 95% will relate a time in their LIFE where pool WAS their LIFE. All the nuances of very good play need to become completely ingrained within every stroke - you cannot LEARN that from a book or a coach or a video.
 

smashmouth

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
try playing pool in a blue collar bar, coaching some of the patrons and refrain from getting frustrated (impossible)

last person I was trying to assist with his break shut me down telling me the true way to break balls was to jump the cue ball from the headstring into the middle of the pack.....as taught to him by a pro, he needed help with the scoreboard too because by his own admission he was semi illiterate

funny stuff
 

chefjeff

If not now...
Silver Member
If all of this discussion is how to get a C level player to an strong B or A level - here is my input- I have rarely seen anyone get to a A level in this game without devoting some portion of their LIFE to the game- that means they spent a MINIMUM of one year( after reaching a C level) playing IN A POOL HALL IN CONSTANT- oftentimes DAILY COMPETITION, for CASH, against other A level and above players. Coaches, solitary practice, books,videos, etc. are all fine and good to a point- but this game- at its higher levels- is way more dependent on so many small factors ( mechanics, rhythm, timing, focus etc.) that my experience shows that almost daily exposure to developing all of these parts of the game in do or die situations against very good competition is what really brings out those that have it and those that never will. You just cannot develop the superior player skills in a vacuum - that goes for any sport. Talk to any higher level player- A - and 95% will relate a time in their LIFE where pool WAS their LIFE. All the nuances of very good play need to become completely ingrained within every stroke - you cannot LEARN that from a book or a coach or a video.

That doesn't work, either, if the "student" chooses to not learn from experiences.

I'm sure other players' pool halls each contain a guy or three who lives there who hasn't improved for years, like it is in the halls around here.

It's inside that player's head, not outside, imho.



Jeff Livingston
 

Icon of Sin

I can't fold, I need gold. I re-up and reload...
Silver Member
I rarely offer advice to someone... I will show them how I do something if they ask...

see my disclaimer.
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Some players really don't want to improve. They play for fun and that's fine - and if they play often enough they might get decent enough to run into position one time to pot 8 balls and beat a good player winner stays on a Friday night. It's their story to tell their grandkids. That's fine and it doesn't frustrate me at all.

What is frustrating is players who actually do want to improve and compete with players at the next level above them but don't put in the effort required or listen to sensible advice. But it's human nature and isn't restricted to pool. It's called thinking you are better than you are. We don't all have the time or resources to reach the highest level but even if pool is not our be all and end all we can still improve. The worlds best strive to stay ahead of the pack at every opportunity - and that why and how they got there in the first place.
 

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It seems to me that if you try to give unsolicited advice most people take it as criticism. A lot of people dont take criticism lightly and therefore are not receptive to advice so you are wasting your time talking to them.

The only time I give advice is when I am asked. A person that asks for advice is more willing to improve than some one who is given unsolicited advice.
 

chefjeff

If not now...
Silver Member
Some players really don't want to improve. They play for fun and that's fine - and if they play often enough they might get decent enough to run into position one time to pot 8 balls and beat a good player winner stays on a Friday night. It's their story to tell their grandkids. That's fine and it doesn't frustrate me at all.

What is frustrating is players who actually do want to improve and compete with players at the next level above them but don't put in the effort required or listen to sensible advice. But it's human nature and isn't restricted to pool. It's called thinking you are better than you are. We don't all have the time or resources to reach the highest level but even if pool is not our be all and end all we can still improve. The worlds best strive to stay ahead of the pack at every opportunity - and that why and how they got there in the first place.

That's for sure, it isn't restricted to pool. It's a mentality that permeates all of life. We just see it in pool.




Jeff Livingston
 

14-1StraightMan

High Run 127
Silver Member
Straightpool_99.... Really a good post. I have seen players in my BCA Master League play the same as they played 20 years ago... No improvement at all in their game. Good players but that is all, just good. You state that trying to give them a hint... I found out no matter what I would say or hint to them. They always come back with an answer why they did it the way they did... I have stopped giving Hints many years ago because of this. These same people who play like this. No matter what their deal is, it's never their fault. The players who do want to learn, will listen. They have to have the Want in them. Many do not. It's like that in all walks of life. I use to train rookies. I would tell them to listen to all your trainers. Take the good points from all of them and make them your own.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know I've ranted about this before, but I swear I'm not really bitter or angry about it at all. Mostly I'm puzzled by it. I see tons of people doing the same things for YEARS on end. They only improve marginally, and some not at all. They keep making the same stupid mistakes, playing with the same shoddy technique. And when you finally crack from watching them do the same thing 5 times and blaming everything but the true cause, and try to give them a hint, they ignore it. Most of these people have been ignoring the same obvious flaws for years before that. Many of them even paid for instructors and then ignored them when they pointed out what would be obvious for even the most poorly trained observer. Then you have the guy who's constantly trying new things, and one small hint can improve his game greatly.

The point is not really to whine about this fact of life, but rather to give my theory about why this is so. I believe that you cannot get better at this game, unless you are willing to make changes, major ones at that. You have to be able to gamble once in a while on doing something that may set your game back for a short while, to get long term gains as long as it is based on sound technique. It's rare to see someone do this and not have it pay off in the long run. But you need discipline, self belief and a strong motivation to do so. That is what many people lack. It's strange to see people who are barely playing the game at a 1year level (after playing for 10 times that amount of time), being so afraid to do anything new for fear of ruining their game (lol). If you've played for 10 years and can't run a rack more than once a week, you truely have nothing to lose. Might as well go for it.

The lack of flexibility and discipline is holding so many people back and is a purely mental block. Nothing stops these people from getting better other than their minds. This game is played 90% in the mind, once you get past the C level, IMO.

Even good fundamentals are mostly mental. Once you learn how to do stuff, you need to remember the exact methods and apply it in a disciplined way. That has very little to do with strength, or hand to eye coordination (if it is anywhere near a reasonable, non-challenged level). Pool is an awesome game. You don't need power, speed or even great intelligence to be decent at it, yet extremely few people can even get to a respectable level where they run racks reliably. It's a mystery that is deeply fascinating.


Unless you're natural, getting better at pool is hard work.

A player needs to be able to become self-aware about what they are doing mechanically and be able to perceive exactly what effects that is producing on the table. Then it becomes a matter of being willing to experiment and change at the risk of going down some blind alleys and playing poorly from time to time.

All of this takes the ability to concentrate and focus for long periods of time, qualities that many players lack. It also takes a blend of practice time and competition and often a player will lack the ability to practice with intent or not have the desire to compete.

A lot of people cannot devote the time and effort it takes to become better at pool. They play it at the level they play and, though occasionally expressing exasperation at the state of their game, cannot invest the time and effort required to move forward. Some don't have the necessary self-awareness and/or ability to concentrate. Others just don't want to do the hard work.

Lou Figueroa
 

Pushout

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pool is way, way to ego driven for a lot of people to admit and ACCEPT that they may be doing something wrong.
 

LeonD123

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pool is way, way to ego driven for a lot of people to admit and ACCEPT that they may be doing something wrong.

Same in real life. Like folks complaining about their financial situations, but still only working 9 to 5 and watching TV during their free time.

Obese people eating too much calories.

The majority of the population is mediocre and do nothing against it.

I know some pool players, 40-50yo, playing for 20 years and never improving.

Where's the fun to drive 100km for a league, loose 2 matches playing a few shots, every single weekend ?

I play pool for 1 year and I'm already better than most of this type of person, playing much less than they do.
 
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