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TheMadScientist
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01-11-2018, 08:06 AM

For ball in hand shots, I will follow 90% of the time. The rest of the time I do what is needed I guess, haha.
  
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justadub
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01-11-2018, 08:19 AM

For lesser skilled and/or experienced players, I've found that most can do one better than the other, so they rely on that even when the other may be the better option. I'm guilty of this, as well. (The lesser skilled category, heh.)

Follow came easier to me than executing a draw shot close to properly. I have folks that I play with that can draw with ease, and struggle to hit a follow shot.

Like others have said, in a ball in hand situation, I'll go with the follow option a great majority of the time.


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islandboy
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01-11-2018, 08:48 AM

I use draw the majority of times when pocketing balls and some variation when playing shape.


Unlike some players, I have a lot of confidence using draw to control distance, angles, speed and action. There are so many subtle things you can do by blending draw into your stroke.

It's not a conscious thing, but I'm very comfortable using draw, and it's become a big part of my game.
  
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SFC9ball
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01-11-2018, 09:18 AM

If I need pin point accuracy for the cash FOLLOW is the right choice unless you are mad at your money!

There are always exceptions to this rule,

Yes I can draw my ball! (that is the shot when you hit below center and hard right )

As they say "those that cant do TEACH"

I hope everyone has a great day.


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fastone371
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01-11-2018, 10:26 AM

When playing position if I have a choice between the 2 it will almost always be follow. With fast cloth it is very easy to over draw, especially when trying to hit a narrow window. Probably the worst thing to happen to me is becoming capable of drawing the cue ball easily, so often I go too far. 1 foot or less isnt bad but those "tweener" shots where you dont need max draw to break a ball out have become inconsistent for me. It seems like the QB always trickles 6" too far on fast (normal now) cloth. When just pocketing balls I will often hit the QB below center but I wouldnt call it a full fledged draw shot.
  
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Straightpool_99
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01-11-2018, 06:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrknight411 View Post
Draw is the only way to do a kill shot, unless your kicking off the rail, which requires the reverse.
Hey, I made a gif, just for you. Too bad I can't get it working with AZB. It has to be smaller, but then it doesn't really show what I want?! Stupid limitations, and I don't want to spend all night on this. Here is the link, anyway, at least that works.
https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7523...Szss/giphy.gif

Last edited by Straightpool_99; 01-11-2018 at 06:37 PM.
  
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01-11-2018, 10:37 PM

The game has changed a lot in the past 30 years. Back in the 80's most pros used draw as their first choice. Jim Rempe once told me draw is your more accurate shot because the bridge is lower and more stable. I tend to use draw shots quite a bit the maneuvering through a rack. I think it's a mistake though. Today's pros use natural follow whenever possible.
  
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mrknight411
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01-12-2018, 01:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightpool_99 View Post
Hey, I made a gif, just for you. Too bad I can't get it working with AZB. It has to be smaller, but then it doesn't really show what I want?! Stupid limitations, and I don't want to spend all night on this. Here is the link, anyway, at least that works.
https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7523...Szss/giphy.gif
That's awesome! I love those types of force follows close off the rail. To my understanding, a kill shot is to slow the CB down prior to contact, but I can see how the force follow close to the rail can also be considered a kill shot.

Below are some definitions, and vid, I found online:

Quote:
A kill shot is a type of billiard shot that is executed with draw and usually with inside english. A kill shot is intended to slow down the speed of a cue ball as much as is physically possible after it contacts the object ball. A kill shot gets its name from the way the shot kills the speed of the cue ball.
http://www.billiardsforum.com/billia...tion/kill-shot
Brandon from Select Billiards illustrates this well...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2wCNFuYXqE

Here's a definition from WikiPedia:
Quote:
kill shot
A shot intended to slow down or "kill" the cue ball's speed as much as possible after contact with an object ball; usually a shot with draw, often combined with inside english. Also known as a dead ball shot.
I believe the consensus is that a kill shot is a shot where the CB is slowed down prior to contact. It's done for accuracy and control of position. I would like to read what other players have to say. Thanks for the gif!



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  (#24)
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01-12-2018, 10:34 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by haystj View Post
But do you roll it skinny or fat?
Skinny as sheeeeet and then in the billfold mashed flat.... burned sloooooooow..
At least, uh, you know,back in the seventies
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Bob Jewett
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01-12-2018, 10:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrknight411 View Post
That's awesome! I love those types of force follows close off the rail. To my understanding, a kill shot is to slow the CB down prior to contact, but I can see how the force follow close to the rail can also be considered a kill shot.

Below are some definitions, and vid, I found online:



Brandon from Select Billiards illustrates this well...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2wCNFuYXqE

Here's a definition from WikiPedia:


I believe the consensus is that a kill shot is a shot where the CB is slowed down prior to contact. It's done for accuracy and control of position. I would like to read what other players have to say. Thanks for the gif!
There are several different situations where you want to minimize cue ball movement. I think the most common is when an object ball is by the cushion and you got more cut angle than you wanted and you need to minimize movement of the cue ball bouncing off the cushion. Draw and outside is required.

There are other situations where you might use draw and inside for an object ball near the cushion but I think they are not as common. It seems to me that you usually want draw on the cue ball after it hits the object ball for those shots.


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Ched
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01-12-2018, 11:06 AM

Speaking as a "non-pro" - it all depends on the lay of the table, how the cue, cloth, and cushions are reacting, and the particular situation. I can't say I do one particular thing most of the time.


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01-12-2018, 11:33 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPHjfRpvk5g&t=183s

This is the Parica match I was thinking of earlier. Parica vs Efren from 1988. Good camera work.

On the first rack, Parica draws the first 7 shots, and follows only the 8 and 9. Check out his position from the 7 to the 8, where he could have easily gone forward 2 rails, but chose to draw instead. He played shots like that the whole set, where he chose draw instead of follow.

Carry on
  
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01-12-2018, 11:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by fjk View Post
The game has changed a lot in the past 30 years. Back in the 80's most pros used draw as their first choice. Jim Rempe once told me draw is your more accurate shot because the bridge is lower and more stable. I tend to use draw shots quite a bit the maneuvering through a rack. I think it's a mistake though. Today's pros use natural follow whenever possible.
I agree. I feel the slower cloth was conducive to using draw because it made it easier to gauge cue ball speed. With the new, super slick, more frictionless felt, precise draw is very difficult to control because the cue ball slides a great deal more before the draw takes effect.

Back then, you had to develop a good stroke in order to draw the ball the length of the table. Nowadays, you can almost hit a stop shot and draw the ball.

JMHO.
  
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01-12-2018, 11:48 AM

Shoot I forget who mentioned it, but depending on whether you play with a soft or harder tip, follow or draw can come much easier than the other. I've played with a hard tip for more than a few years, and more recently switched to a soft tip. Draw comes much more easier and predictable than it used to. It seems like I have to be extra careful with shooting follow. It caused a big learning curve for me, losing matches because I wasn't getting follow as easily as I was used to. Thx to whoever pointed it out in one of those hard tip vs soft tip threads, understanding makes all the difference. Maybe a medium tip would give the best of both worlds?
  
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01-12-2018, 12:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightpool_99 View Post
I don't know about you guys, but I'm drawing for my dough, that's for sure. Ok, 3 cushion and big ball bar box excluded, but still.

I'm going to assume that the player in question has a decent stroke and is not a beginner, also that modern conditions apply. No "rag" cushions or rug cloth. There is a huge difference between a C player draw stroke and that of a better player. We'll assume that the player in question knows how to get action with a soft stroke.

1. Draw minimizes throw. That may seem like a theoretical point, but it really isn't. Who hasn't seen a cut shot turn and wobble in the pocket because of follow? Hit a cut shot with draw, and not only will it throw less, it virtually guaranteees that the object ball will travel straight as well.

2. Draw "cuts off the table" minimizing cueball travel and rail contact. Extremely important in these times of "pinball cushions" and ultra fast cloths. Once you touch that rail, god knows what will happen. With draw, typically the cushion contacts are softer than typical follow shots, which have more cueball speed at cushion contact.

3. Draw lets you see the whole ball, thus making aiming easier. Again, seems minor, but it really isn't.

4. Draw makes it easy to kill the ball.It will let you shoot fairly firm, ensuring straight travel, yet have a low speed at the impact time.

5. Who wants to shoot power follow shots? Seriously, how often do you see top players do that when there is even a hint of a different option? They are the toughest shots in pool.

That is an old saying that basically states.....the path of the cue ball is a certainty with follow. The path with draw is not as precise.
Obviously there are shots that require using draw but if you are given the choice of simply following through the object ball or drawing to a certain position....follow is the more sure way to get a precise path of the cue ball.



Chris
  
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