Ball Roll-Off From Simonis Cloth

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Greenthumb

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Does anyone know about Simonis 760 cloth causing ball roll-off? I heard from a snooker table manufacturer recently that the way Simonis cloth is manufactured creates a certain weave that at slow ball speeds causes ball roll off. Does anyone know about this, or have experience to the contrary?
 
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ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
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Greenthumb said:
Does anyone know about Simonis 760 cloth causing ball roll-off? I heard from a snooker table manufacturer recently that the way Simonis cloth is manufactured creates a certain weave that at slow ball speeds causes ball roll off. Does anyone know about this, or have experience to the contrary?
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Any ball can roll off on any cloth at slow speeds from many factors - just a fact. I have not heard of a specific problem with the weave of 760 Simonis causing that.
 
pt109

pt109

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Greenthumb said:
Does anyone know about Simonis 760 cloth causing ball roll-off? I heard from a snooker table manufacturer recently that the way Simonis cloth is manufactured creates a certain weave that at slow ball speeds causes ball roll off. Does anyone know about this, or have experience to the contrary?
Click to expand...

Are you kidding me?....a guy from the snooker world talkin’ a cloth roll...
....there is no worse roll off than what a snooker cloth does...directional nap.

The straightest rolling cloth is the fastest...Simonis 300....if installed by good mechanics.
...I watched two guys do a Verhoven for Frank Torres...they line up the weave...
...can’t do as well on a pocket table...but snooker is the worst.
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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Greenthumb said:
Does anyone know about Simonis 760 cloth causing ball roll-off? I heard from a snooker table manufacturer recently that the way Simonis cloth is manufactured creates a certain weave that at slow ball speeds causes ball roll off. Does anyone know about this, or have experience to the contrary?
Click to expand...
The problem with 760 -- if you consider it a problem -- is that it is "faster" than other pool cloths such as 860. That is, the ball rolls farther for a given starting speed and takes longer to slow down. That gives any slight tilt on the table to act on the ball for longer and make it curve.

Carom cloth is the fastest as mentioned above and carom tables have to be set up very carefully or the roll-off is obvious.
 
hang-the-9

hang-the-9

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Greenthumb said:
We took some videos recently to assess ball roll-off on one section of our new snooker table. They are available for viewing at https://photos.app.goo.gl/u7G8ZBESI5EKPBR53 . Could the ball roll-off we saw be primarily due to the Simonis 760 cloth weave? Thanks for your assessments!
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There will be no way to know if it's the cloth, something under the cloth, slate, balls used or any other factor that will affect how a ball rolls across the table. Also the link has nothing in it, I see an Album is empty message.
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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Greenthumb said:
. Could the ball roll-off we saw be primarily due to the Simonis 760 cloth weave?
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In my experience, absolutely not.

You may want to ask the same question in the table mechanics sub-forum.

Have you tried putting a precise level on the cloth? Have you tried leveling the table?
 
Island Drive

Island Drive

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Bob is it possible for one mechanic to set up a table, then get called to another job. Next his helper finishes the job. If one guy pulls cloth allot tighter than the other depending on where he began, could that create ''steer''.
 
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ChrisinNC

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Island Drive said:
Bob is it possible for one mechanic to set up a table, then get called to another job. Next his helper finishes the job. If one guy pulls cloth allot tighter than the other depending on where he began, could that create ''steer''.
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I've never known of a reputable mechanic not to finish the process of stapling the bed cloth on the table once they've started. Most have their own technique, and would not trust anyone else to do it, let alone finish the job for them once they've started it.
 
Island Drive

Island Drive

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ChrisinNC said:
I've never known of a reputable mechanic not to finish the process of stapling the bed cloth on the table once they've started. Most have their own technique, and would not trust anyone else to do it, let alone finish the job for them once they've started it.
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True, BUT after spending years running auto/truck repair shops and working with jobbers for 17 years, sometimes another HAS to finish a job just because.
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

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You meant the worsted, I do believe.
pt109 said:
Are you kidding me?....a guy from the snooker world talkin’ a cloth roll...
....there is no worse roll off than what a snooker cloth does...directional nap.

The straightest rolling cloth is the fastest...Simonis 300....if installed by good mechanics.
...I watched two guys do a Verhoven for Frank Torres...they line up the weave...
...can’t do as well on a pocket table...but snooker is the worst.
Click to expand...
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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Island Drive said:
Bob is it possible for one mechanic to set up a table, then get called to another job. Next his helper finishes the job. If one guy pulls cloth allot tighter than the other depending on where he began, could that create ''steer''.
Click to expand...
I think that's very unlikely unless the job is so bad there are wrinkles. Lots of tables have 760 and roll perfectly straight. This "evil worsted weave make the balls wander" idea is a bunch of hooey. The OP has not yet reported on testing the table with a level.
 
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Greenthumb

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Thanks for your replies; I greatly appreciate the benefit of your knowledge, experience and insights. The link to the ball roll-off tests isn't currently active, but may be restored today. The table installation was completed on 2/16/18, and the ball roll-off tests were done on 2/27/18. No levels have been used since installation, but a fitter will be back next week with a full box of equipment. The manufacturer plans to replace the Simonis 760 cloth we preferred for the Golf game we normally play, with Strachan 6811 cloth, normally used on snooker tables, to solve the ball roll-off we've observed--they've viewed the videos we made. Of course, re-leveling the table will be part of the process.
 
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garczar

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Greenthumb said:
Thanks for your replies; I greatly appreciate the benefit of your knowledge, experience and insights. The link to the ball roll-off tests isn't currently active, but may be restored today. The table installation was completed on 2/16/18, and the ball roll-off tests were done on 2/27/18. No levels have been used since installation, but a fitter will be back next week with a full box of equipment. The manufacturer plans to replace the Simonis 760 cloth we preferred for the Golf game we normally play, with Strachan 6811 cloth, normally used on snooker tables, to solve the ball roll-off we've observed--they've viewed the videos we made. Of course, re-leveling the table will be part of the process.
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You think 760 rolls funny try 300Extra. Our golf table has 3c cloth on it. Faster than fast and as ball slows(takes a while) you get some funny movement.
 
pt109

pt109

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Greenthumb said:
Thanks for your replies; I greatly appreciate the benefit of your knowledge, experience and insights. The link to the ball roll-off tests isn't currently active, but may be restored today. The table installation was completed on 2/16/18, and the ball roll-off tests were done on 2/27/18. No levels have been used since installation, but a fitter will be back next week with a full box of equipment. The manufacturer plans to replace the Simonis 760 cloth we preferred for the Golf game we normally play, with Strachan 6811 cloth, normally used on snooker tables, to solve the ball roll-off we've observed--they've viewed the videos we made. Of course, re-leveling the table will be part of the process.
Click to expand...

6811?....now the table is guaranteed to roll off....the bottom rail will roll in....
...the top rail will roll out....the side pockets will roll in or out depending on which end of
the table you're shooting from.
When you're spinning with or against the nap, different reactions require different aims.

I think the problem is with the table itself...and it's true that fine cloth will not mask it...
...but I suggest to resolve those problems before you re-cloth...
...and maybe put on 860.

The snooker cloth will mask some of the table problems for a while....but as the cloth
gets older, they'll show again.

They put heavy, coarse cloth on many bar boxes to disguise how bad the table is....
....but your table should be above that.
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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Greenthumb said:
Ball roll-off videos we took yesterday afternoon are available for viewing at

https://photos.app.goo.gl/AmRMiAu2c5mlSxuG3
Click to expand...

Do you feel that all of the shots should have been within half a ball when arriving at the far end? How accurate do you expect the table to be?

For the typical golf setup, the table looks fine except for shot 2. I wonder if the fitter has an explanation as to why shot 2 had much more roll than the other shots.

Something to keep in mind is that cue balls can be out of round enough to show as much rolloff as you saw. To eliminate that possibility you have to shoot the shot several times with the cue ball turned differently each time. Also, it's better to use a ramp for this test.

Also, if you want 760 for the speed, how does the fitter propose to get the same speed from Strachan? Are you supposed to iron the cloth every day, the way snooker clubs do?
 
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ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
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Greenthumb said:
Ball roll-off videos we took yesterday afternoon are available for viewing at

https://photos.app.goo.gl/AmRMiAu2c5mlSxuG3
Click to expand...
As suggested, I would purchase and try a few different cueballs to confirm it is not the ball that is out of round. In almost all the videos, the balls seem to be rolling off to the shooters left, so it seems it's possible the table leveling could be tweaked a little bit to improve.

A newly installed or newly covered table should certainly roll better than this table appears to be rolling, and I'd be a little disappointed as well if it was my table. Unless you can see the weave lines in the cloth look like they are off (wavy and crooked), I would not assume it is the cloth causing the problem.
 
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