Posting of tournament results - a request (plea).

inside_english

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BigTruck has taken the time to create a Sticky for tips on posting tournament information. I would strongly recommend reading this.

AZ'ers would like to see the information presented in a certain way, and we can all agree the desired format is helpful to all.

I would like to propose some additional tips that I (and hopefully others) would find useful.

1. Please do not create multiple threads for the same event. This is not the same as bumping. It causes confusion, especially when you have as many as five threads for your event. We don't know which one to follow and which to reply to. Also, it suggests a certain level of disorganization, which may be interpreted as a sign of how the event would be run.

2. Please post the results, payouts and well-known participants as soon as possible after the tournament is over. You want us to read the thread for your event and to be interested in your event. That sentiment should carry over into us being interested in the results, payouts and participants. Don't leave us hanging!

3. Don't be rude to people asking questions about your event, whatever they may be, or however angry it makes you. Simply put, this is poor customer service. If the person's question is out of line as perceived by you, you should send that person a PM and not chastise them in the presence of everyone else. That person could have been a regular at future events and could have also brought in more business by encouraging their friends to participate.

4. Don't take criticisms personally. Some of us are trying to help you. We are not all business owners, but sometimes the slightest suggestion for improvement causes the hackles to rise. This is unnecessary. Take the opinions with a grain of salt, weigh the pros and cons and act accordingly. Flying off the handle and making off-the-cuff, and often misinterpreted responses helps no one.

5. Be very clear about payouts and green fees when asked. In my opinion, participants have every right to know where and how their entry monies are being distributed. Usually the weaker players outnumber the stronger ones, and people need to know if their investment, drive time, food, hotel fees are going to be worth it, especially if it takes time away from their families. Not everyone is going to be super-grateful just because they can play in a tournament, and be happy with that. The bad economy affects us all, not just room owners.

6. Please be very clear about the rules, or have them readily available on Game Day. There should not be an attitude of "Everybody should know the rules by now". If you're trying to entice new business, this may also include new players who may not be familiar with the intricacies of any game, or every scenario. Be patient...and prepare to be informative.

7. Schedule your event's play time evenly if it is a weekend event. Having players stay into the wee hours of Sunday morning, only to resume play early Sunday afternoon is asking too much. There is a big difference between giving the players all the pool they can handle and scheduling an event unevenly.

8. Please start your events on time! Stop making the bulk of the field suffer because Big Time player called and said he/she would be a few minutes late. Time does not work differently the better you are. If Big Time player can't get to the event on time like everybody else, they should suffer the consequences like everybody else.

I know the title of my thread listed posting of tournament results but once I got going I could not stop...:)

Thanks for reading.
 
Last edited:

beetle

Do I bug you?
Silver Member
All excellent suggestions! By the way, why aren't YOU at these tournaments anymore? All work and no play....
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Works for me. I would like to see you run all the tournaments, on that topic.

BigTruck has taken the time to create a Sticky for tips on posting tournament information. I would strongly recommend reading this.

AZ'ers would like to see the information presented in a certain way, and we can all agree the desired format is helpful to all.

I would like to propose some additional tips that I (and hopefully others) would find useful.

1. Please do not create multiple threads for the same event. This is not the same as bumping. It causes confusion, especially when you have as many as five threads for your event. We don't know which one to follow and which to reply to. Also, it suggests a certain level of disorganization, which may be interpreted as a sign of how the event would be run.

2. Please post the results, payouts and well-known participants as soon as possible after the tournament is over. You want us to read the thread for your event and to be interested in your event. That sentiment should carry over into us being interested in the results, payouts and participants. Don't leave us hanging!

3. Don't be rude to people asking questions about your event, whatever they may be, or however angry it makes you. Simply put, this is poor customer service. If the person's question is out of line as perceived by you, you should send that person a PM and not chastise them in the presence of everyone else. That person could have been a regular at future events and could have also brought in more business by encouraging their friends to participate.

4. Don't take criticisms personally. Some of us are trying to help you. We are not all business owners, but sometimes the slightest suggestion for improvement causes the hackles to rise. This is unnecessary. Take the opinions with a grain of salt, weigh the pros and cons and act accordingly. Flying off the handle and making off-the-cuff, and often misinterpreted responses helps no one.

5. Be very clear about payouts and green fees when asked. In my opinion, participants have every right to know where and how their entry monies are being distributed. Usually the weaker players outnumber the stronger ones, and people need to know if their investment, drive time, food, hotel fees are going to be worth it, especially if it takes time away from their families. Not everyone is going to be super-grateful just because they can play in a tournament, and be happy with that. The bad economy affects us all, not just room owners.

6. Please be very clear about the rules, or have them readily available on Game Day. There should not be an attitude of "Everybody should know the rules by now". If you're trying to entice new business, this may also include new players who may not be familiar with the intricacies of any game, or every scenario. Be patient...and prepare to be informative.

7. Schedule your event's play time evenly if it is a weekend event. Having players stay into the wee hours of Sunday morning, only to resume play early Sunday afternoon is asking too much. There is a big difference between giving the players all the pool they can handle and scheduling an event unevenly.

8. Please start your events on time! Stop making the bulk of the field suffer because Big Time player called and said he/she would be a few minutes late. Time does not work differently the better you are. If Big Time player can't get to the event on time like everybody else, they should suffer the consequences like everybody else.

I know the title of my thread listed posting of tournament results but once I got going I could not stop...:)

Thanks for reading.
 

inside_english

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
All excellent suggestions! By the way, why aren't YOU at these tournaments anymore? All work and no play....
Well Beetle, I have been, and still am, quite busy.
But I have been making some time to play a little in the last couple of weeks.
Quite a few lumps and kinks to work out before stepping back into tournament play...:)
 

inside_english

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Works for me. I would like to see you run all the tournaments, on that topic.
Thanks Walter!

I have been very busy, and have also decided to spend the summer doing other activities that are not pool-related, and have been enjoying myself immensely.

Being holed up in a pool room (no matter no nice it is) on a beautiful summer's day seems almost sinful.

As a cyclist I am sure you would agree.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks Walter!

I have been very busy, and have also decided to spend the summer doing other activities that are not pool-related, and have been enjoying myself immensely.

Being holed up in a pool room (no matter no nice it is) on a beautiful summer's day seems almost sinful.

As a cyclist I am sure you would agree.


At least we have Ozzy...!
 

manfromoz

Banned
Thanks

Thanks Black-Balled! I know I am not perfect but I do appreciate the kind words. Now, we better see you at the next event on July 21-22 in Herndon, VA! Shameless plug...I know.
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
At least we have Ozzy...!

Well I have already gone a round with him on this issue in fact
He said he did not want to bump other threads down for results
The real fact there is he wants u to go to his site in hopes of buying pay per view something that was for free in the past
My arguement is if you use this site to post the turny info post all the infonot just when and where.



1
 

manfromoz

Banned
Clarification

Well I have already gone a round with him on this issue in fact
He said he did not want to bump other threads down for results
The real fact there is he wants u to go to his site in hopes of buying pay per view something that was for free in the past
My arguement is if you use this site to post the turny info post all the infonot just when and where.
1

I was going to disregard this but I would like to clear up a complete misrepresentation. You state that I want people to go to the Action Pool Tour website in the hope that they will purchase a PPV match. PPV sales of archived matches (which are only $1.99 each) have resulted in total sales of $8.00 (half of which goes to Ustream.com). The fact is that a small fee had to be placed on the archived matches so that they would not count against our allotted storage space. The choice was either (a) tons of matches stored online for people to enjoy for a very small fee or (b) matches being deleted after each tournament. If you believe that I am driving traffic to the website to improve upon something as insignificant as that, you are seriously mistaken.

Secondly, you imply that I don't post results here. Shortly after each event, I post a short blurb about the event with a link to the complete results and brackets. All it takes is one more click and you would have a plethora of information at your finger tips.

Finally, this forum is a great place to post event information and get the word out. However, I don't want anyone's total experience with The Action Pool Tour to be isolated to a forums page. I want people to check out our site, see what we are about, check out the features and benefits, join the mailing list, and hopefully join the tour. Even you! Thanks.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well I have already gone a round with him on this issue in fact
He said he did not want to bump other threads down for results
The real fact there is he wants u to go to his site in hopes of buying pay per view something that was for free in the past
My arguement is if you use this site to post the turny info post all the infonot just when and where.
1
Not that I disagree with either position, but the OZ wants to increase exposure of the Tour's website and yes, its PPV and advertising revenues too.

...and he has a link in every one of his posts, results are just a couple of clicks away.
 

beetle

Do I bug you?
Silver Member
Plus, and I may be wrong, but I think it is a standard arrangement with AZB that the tournament results story first be sent to AZ Billiards as an item that appears in the newsfeed on their home page before the results are announced/buried in a forum thread (of course, many tournaments directors don't do that).

Not that I disagree with either position, but the OZ wants to increase exposure of the Tour's website and yes, its PPV and advertising revenues too.

...and he has a link in every one of his posts, results are just a couple of clicks away.
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was going to disregard this but I would like to clear up a complete misrepresentation. You state that I want people to go to the Action Pool Tour website in the hope that they will purchase a PPV match. PPV sales of archived matches (which are only $1.99 each) have resulted in total sales of $8.00 (half of which goes to Ustream.com). The fact is that a small fee had to be placed on the archived matches so that they would not count against our allotted storage space. The choice was either (a) tons of matches stored online for people to enjoy for a very small fee or (b) matches being deleted after each tournament. If you believe that I am driving traffic to the website to improve upon something as insignificant as that, you are seriously mistaken.

Secondly, you imply that I don't post results here. Shortly after each event, I post a short blurb about the event with a link to the complete results and brackets. All it takes is one more click and you would have a plethora of information at your finger tips.

Finally, this forum is a great place to post event information and get the word out. However, I don't want anyone's total experience with The Action Pool Tour to be isolated to a forums page. I want people to check out our site, see what we are about, check out the features and benefits, join the mailing list, and hopefully join the tour. Even you! Thanks.

well Ozzy I respectivly disagree ,, Clearly you forget the last conversation we had on this topic and you said you wanted people to go to your site for sponser play,, it would not have been a topic of discusion had results been posted in a timely fashion in the first place, we are not asking for a detailed report , give the top few and by all means tell people to read more at your site,, .

I was at your first event at top hat ., streaming was live and free and results were posted sat night, and shortly after the turny

Last event I was at ,there were no half way results the finals were ppv and thier were no results untill long after it became a topic of discusion and further more that was also on your site that had no midway and I think late mon or tue final posting

Then I got a email recently that said ppv is going HD and their will be a fee i think 4.99

So its easy for someone to guestion the intent


1
 

manfromoz

Banned
Response

I understand where you are coming from but I think you are misinterpreting what I said and you are mixing several issues together to form the wrong impression. I don't want you or anyone else to have that impression, so I will try to explain each of the things you mentioned.

1. Traffic to the APT Website:
Your quote: "Clearly you forget the last conversation we had on this topic and you said you wanted people to go to your site for sponsor play."

I'm not sure what "sponsor play" is...perhaps that was a typo. In our last conversation, I said that I want to drive traffic to our website because increased traffic means that it is easier to obtain sponsorships/advertisers. Yes, you are correct that there is a financial motivation involved. However, I think you have the impression that the APT attracting sponsors or additional revenue only benefits me as the owner. If the APT is able to bring in more revenue, that means that more revenue can flow back to the players in the form of added money, prizes, etc. Without additional sponsorships or revenue, the tour will not grow and will eventually become another dying regional tour.

2. Posting Results
Your quote: "Last event I was at, there were no half way results...and there were no results untill long after it became a topic of discusion and furthermore that was also on your site that had no midway and I think late mon or tue final posting."

I'm really not sure what event you are referring to but at EVERY event, I post a completed bracket after Day #1 on the home page of the APT website. I do this while I am at the pool room no matter how late it is (4:00am in a couple of instances). I then do the same at the conclusion of the final day for the main tournament and the 2nd Chance tournament before I leave the pool room to travel home. As soon as we get everything packed and we begin our drive home, I call the AzBilliards writer and give him all of the pertinent information. A complete story is then written overnight and is usually posted in the Headlines section of AzBilliards the very next morning. Then, usually 3-6 days later, I write and post my own complete story for the APT website (because I prefer to include more information and some backdrop story lines). I know that my methods and timing are not perfect (partly because I have a full-time job, a family, and I attend college at night) but I truly believe that timely posting of results is a non-issue for the APT. It seems that if it isn't posted right here on the forums, then you believe it isn't posted at all.

3. Live Stream
Your quote: "Last event I was at...the finals were ppv...then I got a email recently that said ppv is going HD and their will be a fee i think 4.99. So its easy for someone to guestion the intent."

The only PPV event that we ever had was Salisbury, MD. It was PPV because Ray Hansen (AKA: Big Truck) brought in all of his equipment, streamed the entire event, and even provided live commentary for the entire weekend. He is a friend and contributor of the tour and did not ask to be paid for any of this. In an attempt to compensate him for his time and effort, we allowed him to make Day #2 PPV and keep all of the proceeds. He worked very long and hard that weekend and unfortunately, the PPV proceeds didn't even come close to being fair compensation.

Secondly, you are correct that we plan to make our stream PPV in the future. This is because we are adding live commentary. Not only did we purchase about $1,400 worth of audio equipment for this purpose, but we also have to compensate the commentator(s) for their time and effort. Therefore, our plan is to place a very small fee of $4.99 on the live stream to help cover these expenses. After all, $4.99 to watch really good players for two entire days (usually 14-18 complete matches) in high definition with live commentary is not bad at all. That's about $0.28-$0.36 per match! The money to cover these expenses has to come from somewhere. The sponsorships are just not there right now (back to my first point) and it would be just plain wrong to take it from entry fees or added money from the room (that money belongs to the players).

Sorry to be so long, but it bothers me that you and perhaps someone else may feel this way. We work very hard with very little compensation to promote and run the events. We have made incremental improvements along the way thanks to our sponsors and contributors that are out there (i.e. Lambros Cues & Steve Lingafelter). Our intention is to grow the tour, attract sponsorships, attract more players, and flow more money back to the people that deserve it...the players. Thanks for reading the long post and I really do hope that you understand the true intention of our actions.
 

dannyb78

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I like to keep my eyes and ears peeled so I can be in the loop. You guys type to darn much for me. Us country boys dont have the edgeahkation to keep up with all of these words.

Ozzy, I hope to see you in herndon. I have done nothing but work none stop since March, had little baby girl, and this cat is in serious need of some me time. I hope I can make it, I would probally go two and out, but I still would have fun seeing some of my friends. If I make it, I hope Blackballed shows up, so I can put the chop on him..... AGAIN:grin::grin:
 

manfromoz

Banned
Herndon

Danny,
The chance of you going two and out are slim to none! If I remember correctly, you were one game away from being in the finals of an APT event and you barely even play anymore! People have you severely underrated...but that's probably how you like it. I hope you make it because the event is always better with Danny there!!!
 

Bigtruck

Capt Diff Lock
Gold Member
Silver Member
Danny,
The chance of you going two and out are slim to none! If I remember correctly, you were one game away from being in the finals of an APT event and you barely even play anymore! People have you severely underrated...but that's probably how you like it. I hope you make it because the event is always better with Danny there!!!

Every once in a while Danny's day comes. When it doesn't.....can't make 2 balls.

Ray

ps. you owe me one Danny :D
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I understand where you are coming from but I think you are misinterpreting what I said and you are mixing several issues together to form the wrong impression. I don't want you or anyone else to have that impression, so I will try to explain each of the things you mentioned.

1. Traffic to the APT Website:
Your quote: "Clearly you forget the last conversation we had on this topic and you said you wanted people to go to your site for sponsor play."

I'm not sure what "sponsor play" is...perhaps that was a typo. In our last conversation, I said that I want to drive traffic to our website because increased traffic means that it is easier to obtain sponsorships/advertisers. Yes, you are correct that there is a financial motivation involved. However, I think you have the impression that the APT attracting sponsors or additional revenue only benefits me as the owner. If the APT is able to bring in more revenue, that means that more revenue can flow back to the players in the form of added money, prizes, etc. Without additional sponsorships or revenue, the tour will not grow and will eventually become another dying regional tour.

2. Posting Results
Your quote: "Last event I was at, there were no half way results...and there were no results untill long after it became a topic of discusion and furthermore that was also on your site that had no midway and I think late mon or tue final posting."

I'm really not sure what event you are referring to but at EVERY event, I post a completed bracket after Day #1 on the home page of the APT website. I do this while I am at the pool room no matter how late it is (4:00am in a couple of instances). I then do the same at the conclusion of the final day for the main tournament and the 2nd Chance tournament before I leave the pool room to travel home. As soon as we get everything packed and we begin our drive home, I call the AzBilliards writer and give him all of the pertinent information. A complete story is then written overnight and is usually posted in the Headlines section of AzBilliards the very next morning. Then, usually 3-6 days later, I write and post my own complete story for the APT website (because I prefer to include more information and some backdrop story lines). I know that my methods and timing are not perfect (partly because I have a full-time job, a family, and I attend college at night) but I truly believe that timely posting of results is a non-issue for the APT. It seems that if it isn't posted right here on the forums, then you believe it isn't posted at all.

3. Live Stream
Your quote: "Last event I was at...the finals were ppv...then I got a email recently that said ppv is going HD and their will be a fee i think 4.99. So its easy for someone to guestion the intent."

The only PPV event that we ever had was Salisbury, MD. It was PPV because Ray Hansen (AKA: Big Truck) brought in all of his equipment, streamed the entire event, and even provided live commentary for the entire weekend. He is a friend and contributor of the tour and did not ask to be paid for any of this. In an attempt to compensate him for his time and effort, we allowed him to make Day #2 PPV and keep all of the proceeds. He worked very long and hard that weekend and unfortunately, the PPV proceeds didn't even come close to being fair compensation.

Secondly, you are correct that we plan to make our stream PPV in the future. This is because we are adding live commentary. Not only did we purchase about $1,400 worth of audio equipment for this purpose, but we also have to compensate the commentator(s) for their time and effort. Therefore, our plan is to place a very small fee of $4.99 on the live stream to help cover these expenses. After all, $4.99 to watch really good players for two entire days (usually 14-18 complete matches) in high definition with live commentary is not bad at all. That's about $0.28-$0.36 per match! The money to cover these expenses has to come from somewhere. The sponsorships are just not there right now (back to my first point) and it would be just plain wrong to take it from entry fees or added money from the room (that money belongs to the players).

Sorry to be so long, but it bothers me that you and perhaps someone else may feel this way. We work very hard with very little compensation to promote and run the events. We have made incremental improvements along the way thanks to our sponsors and contributors that are out there (i.e. Lambros Cues & Steve Lingafelter). Our intention is to grow the tour, attract sponsorships, attract more players, and flow more money back to the people that deserve it...the players. Thanks for reading the long post and I really do hope that you understand the true intention of our actions.

First off if you have read any posting on the planet pool thread you will see where I called you and your tour the gold standard of mini tours if you have not , trust me on that one

Second..I have no problam with what you ,your sponsers the players or anyone else makes off of PPV or anything else it does not pertain to me
or most for that matter, I would hope ur not doing it for free but I would say if you play in the event you should get free access to that event

The thread was about posting results here as a general practice
I just cant for the life of me figure out why thats such a hard thing to ask



1
 

manfromoz

Banned
Response

I did in fact read that post a couple of days ago and I sincerely appreciate the kind words. When I read things like that, it makes doing this much more worthwhile...so thank you.

You are 100% correct that asking TDs to post results on their announcement threads is not too much to ask. I think we just misunderstood each other...it seemed as if you were implying that everything should be here so there would be no reason to go to the tour's actual website. That is really what I took exception to because I want people to visit the APT website for a number of reasons. I appreciate all suggestions and I will try to do a better job of posting result blurbs with the appropriate APT website links on our announcement threads. Thanks and although I don't know who you are, I hope to see you soon.
 
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