Missing players not earning Mosconi Cup points
- Thread starter 8BallWonderland
- Start date
I just posted this in another thread, but it's certainly relevant here. I'll be interested in your rejoinders.
What if it were true that (1) the same group of players who are best on 7-footers are also best on 9-footers and (2) they are essentially just as much better than the next-lower-skilled group of players using 7-footers as using 9-footers? Then, wouldn't it be OK to use smaller tables to qualify for events on larger tables, or vice versa?
P.S. 1 -- I think (1) and (2) above are essentially what mikepage, using his Fargo ratings, is claiming.
P.S. 2 -- I still dislike the notion of "pro" or high-level open events moving more toward 7-footers. But I'm having a bit of a hard time rationalizing my sentiments (assuming Mike is correct).
So being a professional pool player with no events to play in is a good thing? The cash doesn't matter? Really? As A pro, I would expect to attempt to make my living in as many events as possible. 10 foot, 9 foot or 7 foot. The size of the table should not be a determining factor. Sure, in a perfect world, I'd prefer to have the best play on the most demanding equipment. The Mosconi Cup has always been an artificial event. Players chosen as much on their popularity as their ability. Does Barry Hearn really care what tables WE choose to decide our team members on? If allowed to play, all the best players should have been in Reno to earn points. Small tables or not. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
Lyn
So by this analogy Im guessing Nasscar races at places like at Dover ,Richmond , Rockingham are not real Nasscar races
Or PGA events played on short track par 71 courses are not true PGA events
The harsh reality is BB's have thier place in pro pool I'll agree that they should not be considered US Opens with out at least adding the BB tag so we can distinguish them from big table championships ,,
Any pool tournament that has big fields and pay days should be welcomed with open arms given the state of pool
This is a part posting from another thread
I find the whole system a little flawed. Serious contenders could find themselves being matched up with a Filipino, Asian, Jayson, Mika, Dennis while his rival ends up with a couple of short stops.
Why not use these figures until about August and then use them to compile the field for the US Proessional 9 Ball Championship which is restricted to 'eligible US players only.
It could be held on the dates currently held by the US Open. The four semi finalists maje the MC team and the fifth player could be the Captain's Pick.
This has the added advantage of enuring that these are the 'in stroke' players who go to the MC table a month later.
I am sure that the field would be filled up by prestige rather than prize money as players battle it out for Mosconi Cup Glory
I find the whole system a little flawed. Serious contenders could find themselves being matched up with a Filipino, Asian, Jayson, Mika, Dennis while his rival ends up with a couple of short stops.
Why not use these figures until about August and then use them to compile the field for the US Proessional 9 Ball Championship which is restricted to 'eligible US players only.
It could be held on the dates currently held by the US Open. The four semi finalists maje the MC team and the fifth player could be the Captain's Pick.
This has the added advantage of enuring that these are the 'in stroke' players who go to the MC table a month later.
I am sure that the field would be filled up by prestige rather than prize money as players battle it out for Mosconi Cup Glory
LOL
My guess is those guys probably feel embarassed having to play 7 ft to earn MC points
I mean what do they say if amateur/banger comes up to them and say "Hey didn't know you will be competing with us for MC points. Be gentle with me , ok? ":grin-square:
Sorry, Lou, I'm not knowledgeable about Mike's study; I've just read a couple posts from him about this. But he seems to feel that many of us are too quick to criticize the use of 7-footers and that the data (his data) support the notion that 7-footers are still valid discriminators of pool skill. Plus, the smaller tables offer advantages in terms of expense and logistics, and possibly in growing the sport.
As I kind of said, the whole notion of pros and advanced amateurs on small tables is something that immediately flunks my smell test, but I'm still trying to process the odor.
I didn't realize the short notice the players got on these being Mosconi cup point earning events.
Someone like Rodney probably had his whole trip booked for the 10 ball tournament.
Not very well thought out on Matchrooms part.
Someone like Rodney probably had his whole trip booked for the 10 ball tournament.
Not very well thought out on Matchrooms part.
It hasn't been announced yet (to my knowledge) whether the U.S. Open 8-Ball and U.S. Open 10-Ball Championships in July will provide Mosconi Cup ranking points.
But the USBTC's just played (with no "U.S. Open" name attached) did provide MC ranking points.
Maybe the players are getting smart and are tired of being jerked around following the 10k carrot every year.Johnnyt
Yep. Who wouldn't be?
AL, I believe that, at times, the same general group of players will prevail. The pool of high level players is relatively small and the same guys travel to the different events.
However, there are usually significant differences in the outcomes between 9' and 7' tables and the results from the CSI tournaments bears this out. There are many names as top finishers at CSI that are not on the leader board from the DCC list and who will most likely not be on the US Open 9ball list of top finishers... unless BB decides to hold his event on 7' tables, because of expense and logistics, and to possibly grow the sport
Lou Figueroa
That might be explained by the simple fact that far fewer of the really top-level players were entered at the USBTC's than at the DCC or at the last US Open 9-Ball, so lesser-lights had a better opportunity to finish fairly high at the USBTC's.
But if you or I had made a list before the USBTC's of the 12 players who were entered in each of the USBTC events that we thought were the best players on 9-foot tables, I think we would have found most of them actually placing in the top dozen on the 7-footers. And if they did not place in the top dozen, it was often because, by the luck of the draw, they encountered a couple of the other top 9-foot players along the way. For example, Jayson Shaw finished out of the top 12 in both 9-Ball (losses to Oscar Dominguez and Alex Olinger) and 8-Ball (losses to Jeffrey Ignacio and Joven Bustamante). Oscar Dominguez finished out of the top 12 in both 10-Ball (losses to Ignacio and Bergman) and 8-Ball (losses to Sossei and Van Boening).
The top performer for the week at the USBTC's was someone who had never before played on a 7-foot table.
Don't misunderstand, I'm not sold on any expansion in the use of 7-footers for play by pros and top amateurs, I'm just still open to trying to understand more about it.
"The Day I Agreed With Lou".
I have a calendar for 2015, it has an entree on Wednesday, February 25th that says "The Day I Agreed With Lou". :thumbup:
What on earth were they thinking to turn the Mosconi Cup into an "uninteresting event"?
I have a calendar for 2015, it has an entree on Wednesday, February 25th that says "The Day I Agreed With Lou". :thumbup:
What on earth were they thinking to turn the Mosconi Cup into an "uninteresting event"?
CJ,
When was the Mosconi Cup anything but uninteresting? I put it right up there with the NFL Pro Bowl. No one cares but the players who get a highly paid vacation. So what's different about the MC?
Lyn
"I want that vest!!!" he said, approaching me menacingly....reaching out to grab me
There's a few times I've thought the Mosconi Cup was interesting, however, just when participating. I've never watched a match of it otherwise.
The most interesting experience I had was when I was playing captain back in 1996 in Essex (just outside London). Where we played was by the rugby fields and the crowd was used to watching rugby, not pool. Needless to say they were pretty aggressive and after the first day they no longer allowed alcoholic beverages in the arena.
A big, rough looking character came up to me and said "I want that vest" (we had the USA red, white and blue "sparkly" vests)......I said "you can't have this vest, it's what I'm playing the tournament in". He wouldn't take "no" for an answer, so I retreated and went up the stairs to the bar.
No sooner had a got the bar, and the guy came in with a couple of his friends.
"I want that vest!!!" he said, approaching me menacingly....reaching out to grab my vest.
At that time I was heavily involved in teaching martial arts and did something to him that he didn't expect...and certainly didn't welcome......security came immediately and escorted the limping man out of the building. We ended up winning that year and I had the honor of running the last rack with Earl Strickland as my partner.
We were playing two "pretty good" snooker players named Ronnie O'Sulliven and Steve Davis.....talk about interesting, they were awesome to be around and I picked up some experiences that I will always cherish..... they improved my game as well - when I got back to the United States I had the best year of my career, winning well over a hundred thousand and the "Player of the Year" honors.
So, the Mosconi Cup can be very interesting at times, and just when we least expect it. I always wondered what happened to that guy, hope he's okay. :groucho: 'The Game is the Teacher'
There's a few times I've thought the Mosconi Cup was interesting, however, just when participating. I've never watched a match of it otherwise.
The most interesting experience I had was when I was playing captain back in 1996 in Essex (just outside London). Where we played was by the rugby fields and the crowd was used to watching rugby, not pool. Needless to say they were pretty aggressive and after the first day they no longer allowed alcoholic beverages in the arena.
A big, rough looking character came up to me and said "I want that vest" (we had the USA red, white and blue "sparkly" vests)......I said "you can't have this vest, it's what I'm playing the tournament in". He wouldn't take "no" for an answer, so I retreated and went up the stairs to the bar.
No sooner had a got the bar, and the guy came in with a couple of his friends.
"I want that vest!!!" he said, approaching me menacingly....reaching out to grab my vest.
At that time I was heavily involved in teaching martial arts and did something to him that he didn't expect...and certainly didn't welcome......security came immediately and escorted the limping man out of the building. We ended up winning that year and I had the honor of running the last rack with Earl Strickland as my partner.
We were playing two "pretty good" snooker players named Ronnie O'Sulliven and Steve Davis...
..talk about interesting, they were awesome to be around and I picked up some experiences that I will always cherish..... they improved my game as well - when I got back to the United States I had the best year of my career, winning well over a hundred thousand and the "Player of the Year" honors. So, the Mosconi Cup can be very interesting at times, and just when we least expect it. I always wondered what happened to that guy, hope he's okay. :groucho: 'The Game is the Teacher'
Yes, but really could we not come up with an explanation for any outcome?
I don't feel that all players are going to get in all events. The format, equipment, and game matter. The locale and timing of the event matter. So in this day and age, when travel is so expensive, I think you're going to have players choosing to participate based on their strengths, preferences, and state of their bank roll. And I think the bottomline on that is that many will opt out on bar table events.
The MC is a 9' table event. Decisions regarding who is on the team should be based accordingly.
Lou Figueroa