Tight Pockets

qbilder · Feb 24, 2018

Does anybody else struggle with tight pockets? My buddy got new rails cut for his table that make the pockets right at 4". It was kinda fun at first because it's noticeably difficult, and forces you to have a precise stroke & aim. However, after some months I have begun noticing my overall level dropping. I don't run out as often, am not nearly as aggressive, and doubt myself where I never have before. Shots where I typically play one side of the pocket or the other for position are no longer the same. I have to hit center pocket to make the ball, which means I am forced to take whatever position I can get from it. That is having a negative overall affect on my game. The tables we compete on have 4.5" pockets, which should seem easy but it's only in theory. I find that I am bringing my doubts & timidness from the practice table to the competition tables, and my competitive play is noticeably lower level than before I began practicing on the tight table.

I guess I never considered the psychological aspect of practice. There's more to the game than mechanics, and I have found that I play pretty much exactly how I practice. If I'm practicing timid and full of doubt, then my competitive play will reflect it. If I can run racks & string packs in practice, then I can do so in competition, too. Is this just something specific to me, or have any of you experienced similar? I'm not sold on the tight pockets. In fact, for my game they are counter productive. Now I'm wondering if it would work in reverse. Would 5" pockets make me feel like a champ?

ChrisinNC · Feb 24, 2018

qbilder said:
Does anybody else struggle with tight pockets? My buddy got new rails cut for his table that make the pockets right at 4". It was kinda fun at first because it's noticeably difficult, and forces you to have a precise stroke & aim. However, after some months I have begun noticing my overall level dropping. I don't run out as often, am not nearly as aggressive, and doubt myself where I never have before. Shots where I typically play one side of the pocket or the other for position are no longer the same. I have to hit center pocket to make the ball, which means I am forced to take whatever position I can get from it. That is having a negative overall affect on my game. The tables we compete on have 4.5" pockets, which should seem easy but it's only in theory. I find that I am bringing my doubts & timidness from the practice table to the competition tables, and my competitive play is noticeably lower level than before I began practicing on the tight table.

I guess I never considered the psychological aspect of practice. There's more to the game than mechanics, and I have found that I play pretty much exactly how I practice. If I'm practicing timid and full of doubt, then my competitive play will reflect it. If I can run racks & string packs in practice, then I can do so in competition, too. Is this just something specific to me, or have any of you experienced similar? I'm not sold on the tight pockets. In fact, for my game they are counter productive. Now I'm wondering if it would work in reverse. Would 5" pockets make me feel like a champ?

Your experience with tight pockets is a perfect example that tight pockets does have potential drawbacks for most players - exactly as you describe. In my opinion, 4-inch corner pockets at the mouth are brutally tough, and may actually be a detriment to your game, for just about everyone below pro level, if that is the only table you ever practice on. 4-1/4" corners are plenty tight enough.

We have a 4-1/4" corners and 4-3/4" sides 9-footer I like to practice on occasionally, but certainly practicing on it exclusively would be very discouraging. Playing on a mix of tight pockets as well as other tables not as tight, I think is ideal for most fairly skilled players.

Black-Balled · Feb 24, 2018

Coal, butthole, diamond!

Tough to fire back at a table like that when you don't have the eye of the tiger.

ceebee · Feb 24, 2018

When I made my new table, from a 100 year old antique, I went with 4 5/8 pockets & really enjoyed the table.

Moet.1977 · Feb 24, 2018

After practicing on 4in pockets, with a friend for 2nite in a row when I started playing on my table which are
4 an 3qt I ran out from every where.
But I could see what u mean about messing with ur head.

tenfttall · Feb 24, 2018

tight pockets

"...Would 5" pockets make me feel like a champ?"

You're such a perfectionist that I really doubt you would let yourself slide on that one.

Try what I try, get a set of "ProPockets" from Pro9 outta the UK.

http://www.pro9.co.uk/html/theproshop/main.php?P=product&pid=PRAC0002

They are stick and peel pocket shims. They don't bounce balls like the rubber inserts
that are very common. Or, just stop practicing on tight pockets! Practice on the size pockets that you compete on.

Or, you can practice shots with progressively tighter pockets. Do drills in a pocket with shims and a pocket with out.
To answer your question, everyone feels it when pockets get tighter; even pros.

Lane in Tampa

tenfttall · Feb 24, 2018

Sorry, Eric — I’m being a little dense in my reply. I wouldn’t practice on any table that made me less confident. Can you play on a different table?

I played for six months on a 4” pocket table in a hot garage in SC. But I did end up with my lifetime high run on that same table. You will eventually adapt if you’re willing to suffer the time it takes to get confident on pockets made for torture.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

deanoc · Feb 24, 2018

i am getting 5 inch pockets on my new table

i hate tight pockets

Harold Smith · Feb 24, 2018

5" pockets are way too big!---Smitty

jtompilot · Feb 24, 2018

deanoc said:
i am getting 5 inch pockets on my new table

i hate tight pockets

Heck, might as well get 6” pockets and you can run out from everywhere

I routinely play on 4 1/8 and 4 1/4. Yes I play 1P. When I go out of town and play on 4.5 or larger I shoot at everything

TATE · Feb 24, 2018

You have to give it more time and it's a commitment. It takes a long time to adjust to 4" pockets. A tight table will show you how inaccurate you are very quickly. Basically a player has to stop cheating pockets for position and play better angles. There is no room for error on power shots. Even the slightest blocking ball becomes impassable.

For an intermediate player, it might take several months to a year to fully adjust. Once you do, on a tight table you will have an advantage over players who haven't.

qbilder · Feb 24, 2018

tenfttall said:
Can you play on a different table?

Oh yeah, it's not the only place to practice. It's really not even a big deal. Heck I even have a table here at home. I wasn't meaning to complain, but only offering a speculation up for discussion. I have seen & heard a lot about people strengthening their game with tight pockets. My personal experience doesn't reflect that at all.

I'm no pro by any stretch, but I do get out. It's not abnormal for me to string small packs fairly regularly. While I totally agree that at some point I would adjust my position play to match the table, I would be losing a part of my game that took years to learn. I play at a level now where I don't just aim to make a ball. I fine adjust my aim point for directing tangents according to speed and direction. On this table that part of my game is moot, a non-option. I guess what I'm saying is that it tears away all the finer points of the game & makes it all about the basics pocketing and angles.

When I first began playing, it was all about learning to pocket the ball. Once that was learned, it went to speed control & understanding natural tangents. Once that was down it moves into side spin. Beyond that are the finer points of the game such as not hitting a duck to pocket it, but cutting a duck as if it was 2' away from the pocket, using it as a wild card of sorts to send the cue ball anywhere. That's an example of one of those shots that is no longer possible on a super tight table. It's little things like that I can easily adjust to because they increase my ability on that table. The problem is that those adjustments soon become staple, part of my game. While on that table I find ways to win. When I go to play a tourney at the pool room, I all of the sudden find myself behind the eight ball because I'm playing far too conservatively on a more liberal table. Where I should be running out like water I find myself scrambling for a safety opportunity. Not a good feeling.

peppersauce · Feb 24, 2018

………………………....

RiverCity · Feb 24, 2018

jtompilot said:
Heck, might as well get 6” pockets and you can run out from everywhere

Nah, fug that. 12" pockets are where its at. :grin-square:

3af86751f63d0788a717ab51d3f243d6--pool-table-pockets-pool-tables.jpg

TATE · Feb 24, 2018

peppersauce said:
Currently, my 9’ GC has 4 1/4” corners and 4 3/4” sides and it plays a little loose for my taste. It could be the rails (Diamond black cushions) or the hard pocket facings...I dunno. The Diamond cushions aren’t as lively as the super speeds and for sure aren’t as lively as the Artemis cushions Diamond uses on their 9’ tables.

I plan to have the pockets tightened to 4” corners and 4 1/2” sides and softer facings installed when it’s time for new cloth. I might be going overboard, but I like playing on super tight tables whenever I get the chance. Thing is, I’ve never had access to a really tight table to practice on daily. I figure if I regret it I can always have the pockets opened up a hair.

I started out playing snooker, 9-ball, and 8-ball on a 10’ snooker table though. That might be why I like tight pockets so much. Also I rarely play 14.1. I think for the games I enjoy most, rotation games and one pocket, 4” pockets should be ok.

As far as downsides, I think both tight and loose pockets have them. I hate when I see a poorly struck shot slide off the rail and the pocket just sucks it in. It introduces an aspect of luck into the game shat shouldn’t be there, imo. That’s why I prefer tighter pockets. But I also agree with you about the smaller pockets limiting your options and creativity at the table.

FYI I would leave the sides alone. I have 4" corners and 5" sides. My last table had 4.5"sides and I didn't like it at all. The smaller opening changes the pocket angle and causes even well aimed cut shots to bounce back and out.

iusedtoberich · Feb 24, 2018

I have factory stock 5" pockets on my GC4. I would not have it any other way. A home table is to work on your game, learn new shots, position routes, and build your confidence. Not to cripple you into bunting balls because you only have a portion of pocket available on every shot.

Before Diamonds came along, and mechanics that extended the cushions, triple shimmed GC's were considered super tight. A stock Diamond with Pro-cut pockets is tighter then the triple shimmed GC, because the shelf is way deeper.

Now, you have players wanting Diamonds wiht 4.25" and even 4" pockets. I think all of those tables are for the birds

YMMV

*Edit: And the days of the triple shimmed GC's, only the one pocket players played on those tables, or, sometimes a 9 ball game if one guy thought he had a mental edge on tighter pockets. Now, 9 ball players want Diamond tables with 4" pockets. To each his own, but nuts imo.

Big Dave · Feb 25, 2018

One solution might be "ProPockets"... Temporarily reduce the width of the pockets on any table, and take them off at any time.

Click the ProPockets banner in my signature for more details...

garczar · Feb 25, 2018

A tight home-table set-up is one thing but a commercial room is an altogether different deal. All tight pockets do is frustrate and discourage your bill paying customers: ball bangers. Having one or two tables for the better players is fine but you need to cater to your recreational crowd. If you sell food and drinks its even more important they have fun, stay a while and come back. I like tough equipment for sure but in the right environment.

ChrisinNC · Feb 25, 2018

peppersauce said:
Currently, my 9’ GC has 4 1/4” corners and 4 3/4” sides and it plays a little loose for my taste. It could be the rails (Diamond black cushions) or the hard pocket facings...I dunno. The Diamond cushions aren’t as lively as the super speeds and for sure aren’t as lively as the Artemis cushions Diamond uses on their 9’ tables.

I plan to have the pockets tightened to 4” corners and 4 1/2” sides and softer facings installed when it’s time for new cloth. I might be going overboard, but I like playing on super tight tables whenever I get the chance. Thing is, I’ve never had access to a really tight table to practice on daily. I figure if I regret it I can always have the pockets opened up a hair.

I started out playing snooker, 9-ball, and 8-ball on a 10’ snooker table though. That might be why I like tight pockets so much. Also I rarely play 14.1. I think for the games I enjoy most, rotation games and one pocket, 4” pockets should be ok.

As far as downsides, I think both tight and loose pockets have them. I hate when I see a poorly struck shot slide off the rail and the pocket just sucks it in. It introduces an aspect of luck into the game shat shouldn’t be there, imo. That’s why I prefer tighter pockets. But I also agree with you about the smaller pockets limiting your options and creativity at the table.

I agree with another poster than I would not recommend 4-1/2" sides, even if you go with 4" corners. The difference between 4-3/4" sides and 4-1/2" sides is absolutely huge. An OB shot in the side pocket at a 45 degree angle is nearly impossible on a 4-1/2" side pocket. 4-5/8" is the absolute tightest I would recommend for your side pockets.

We have one table here with 4-1/8" corners and 4-5/8" sides, and I can tell you the side pockets play way tougher than the corner pockets!

jtompilot · Feb 25, 2018

garczar said:
A tight home-table set-up is one thing but a commercial room is an altogether different deal. All tight pockets do is frustrate and discourage your bill paying customers: ball bangers. Having one or two tables for the better players is fine but you need to cater to your recreational crowd. If you sell food and drinks its even more important they have fun, stay a while and come back. I like tough equipment for sure but in the right environment.

I would have a section for the bill playing hacks to play and a reserved area for the players. I can’t tell you how many times the hacks want to play on the hardest tables, put their beer on the tables, cigarettes on the rails, scoop under the cue ball to jump and rip the cloth, etc etc.

I’ve been to plenty of rooms where good players spend a lot of money on pool time, just not much on drinking.

Tight Pockets

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Pool Hack!!!

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