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Fargo Rate compared to chess FIDE rating
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Tin Man
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Fargo Rate compared to chess FIDE rating - 01-11-2017, 08:34 PM

Mike,

I love chess, but I'll never break through to a high level. I'm good enough to have fun, but am unwilling to put in the hard work to get competitive.

That said, I've always admired the grandmasters, and the world champions. Achieving a 2600 rating would be a true accomplishment. Hitting 2800, wow, just wow.

Since I'll never do that in chess, I got to wondering...I wonder how good I am at pool compared to how chess players play chess. I've put in a lot of hard work in my pool game, and while I'm not touring pro strength, I hit them pretty sporty some days. I am curious if I was as good at chess as I was at pool if I would've achieved the 'grandmaster' rating.

So there you have it. Is it possible to look at bell curve distributions or some other type of comparison to equate a fargo rating into an estimated chess rating to compare relative skills across separate arenas?
  
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01-11-2017, 11:24 PM

Wikipedia tells me a 2600 should win 1/3 games against a 2800. To have an equal per game chance against SVB you'd need to be Fargo rated above 720. Which would put you in top 85 in the US. Which is about right as there also happen to be about 90 Chess Grandmasters in the US.

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01-12-2017, 03:19 AM

the only question is, if its comparabale...... i doubt magnus carlsen is outside of the top 30 in FIDE like the world 9 ball champ in FARGO!


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01-12-2017, 04:53 AM

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Originally Posted by pmac666 View Post
the only question is, if its comparabale...... i doubt magnus carlsen is outside of the top 30 in FIDE like the world 9 ball champ in FARGO!
Magnus Carlsen has won 3 World Chess Championships plus I'm sure many other major events if they have them.

Albin, who you are obviously alluding to, has only won two notable events in his career.

In case, you haven't figured it out by now (you obviously haven't). Your Fargo Rate goes up or down dependent upon the match, the score, and your opponent's rating. Not which tournaments you've won.

Oh, and by the way, Albin is ranked 30th now.
  
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01-12-2017, 06:48 AM

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Originally Posted by BeiberLvr View Post
Magnus Carlsen has won 3 World Chess Championships plus I'm sure many other major events if they have them.

Albin, who you are obviously alluding to, has only won two notable events in his career.

In case, you haven't figured it out by now (you obviously haven't). Your Fargo Rate goes up or down dependent upon the match, the score, and your opponent's rating. Not which tournaments you've won.

Oh, and by the way, Albin is ranked 30th now.
wootwoot lol
seriously that post shows your ignorance, european straight pool champ (125 and out in the final), euro tour champ and lets not forget the runner up in doha!
so, what excactly "notebale" have ppl like bergmann, dechaine, efren and busti won last 2-3 yrs? (esp outside of the US lol)


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01-12-2017, 08:19 AM

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Originally Posted by pmac666 View Post
wootwoot lol
seriously that post shows your ignorance, european straight pool champ (125 and out in the final), euro tour champ and lets not forget the runner up in doha!
so, what excactly "notebale" have ppl like bergmann, dechaine, efren and busti won last 2-3 yrs? (esp outside of the US lol)
Once again it has nothing to do with what tournaments you win.

Please do try and keep up. Thanks
  
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01-12-2017, 10:48 AM

All I know is that it will be a great day in the history of pocket billiards if the world would adopt a uniform rating system such as Fargo. Fargo is not necessarily the be-all-end-all rating system but I give it my vote. No other pool rating system is as easy only the front end and as mathematically sound at its core.

What we need is a way for the APA to input data into Fargo, and a good reason for them to do so. Clearly they do not need Fargo ratings to drive their Equalizer handicap system, nor should we be pressing them or any other league to use Fargo for league handicaps. But if Mike Page can come up with a way to entice the APA to submit 8-ball and 9-ball data then the whole billiard world will profit. Hopefully Mike can also figure out a way to map APA 9-ball match points to Fargo W/L records.

Suppose the APA abandoned their proprietary handicap system tomorrow and adopted Fargo. Would they suffer financially by doing so? I don't think so. If anything a person's Fargo rating is less easy to manipulate than a person's APA rating.

I may be wrong in my analysis but I'm eager to hear others opinions.

Last edited by sbpoolleague; 01-12-2017 at 10:50 AM. Reason: misspelling
  
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01-12-2017, 04:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeiberLvr View Post
Once again it has nothing to do with what tournaments you win.

Please do try and keep up. Thanks
you mentioned albin only has won 2 notebale tourneys, not me!
and yeah i figured fargo out, and still im not much impressed! and that has nothing to do that i root for albin, hes just the best exemple how well fargo is working when some vets and bartable champs who leave the US only for mosconi are in front of him! aslong as a ranking doesnt involve the situation the player is in, its pretty much worthless! or why do you think you get more points for a grand slam in tennis than in a challenger? the next joke is counting barboxes in a worldwide ranking, you know theres only one country on this ole blue ball of fun where someone plays on those micky mouse tables?
oh well, why im talking...... noone outside the US cares about fargo and you guys over there have a list where you still can admire 3 top 20 players in the world! everything is good LOL


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01-13-2017, 04:50 AM

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Originally Posted by pmac666 View Post
noone outside the US cares about fargo and you guys over there have a list where you still can admire 3 top 20 players in the world! everything is good LOL
Well that's obviously false considering you have to chirp in anytime Fargo is mentioned, and always with the same nonsense.

Listen. If you want your idol to have a higher rating, this is what he needs to do. Play more tournaments that have players rated higher than him, and beat those players. Also, he'll need to beat the lower ranked players as well, but make sure it's by a decent margin.

There's a little bit more to it, but that will get him headed in the right direction.
  
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01-13-2017, 08:07 AM

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Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
Mike,

I love chess, but I'll never break through to a high level. I'm good enough to have fun, but am unwilling to put in the hard work to get competitive.

That said, I've always admired the grandmasters, and the world champions. Achieving a 2600 rating would be a true accomplishment. Hitting 2800, wow, just wow.

Since I'll never do that in chess, I got to wondering...I wonder how good I am at pool compared to how chess players play chess. I've put in a lot of hard work in my pool game, and while I'm not touring pro strength, I hit them pretty sporty some days. I am curious if I was as good at chess as I was at pool if I would've achieved the 'grandmaster' rating.

So there you have it. Is it possible to look at bell curve distributions or some other type of comparison to equate a fargo rating into an estimated chess rating to compare relative skills across separate arenas?
My guess is you are right about at the grandmaster bubble. Looking at bell curves is awkward because the curves depend so much on the population. For example, if all APA players suddenly had Fargo Ratings, you'd suddenly be another standard deviation or more above the mean.

And chess doesn't have as much of a casual play-a-fun-game-for-a-night-out component, so chess might be more like one-pocket in that regard.

I see there are 1300-1400 chess grand masters in the world

--something like 160 in Russia and 60 in USA

You are #54 USA--and you DID just last week double-dip the guy who got second this summer at the US Open 8-Ball....good job...--. I suspect there may be a few still not on our radar who are above you, but if there are any at all it is at most a few..

In any case, I'd say you are right about there... And between yes and no, I'm going to go with yes, you have achieved the pool grandmaster level...


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01-13-2017, 10:58 AM

Hes playing a grandmaster tonight.
  
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01-13-2017, 11:11 AM

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Hes playing a grandmaster tonight.
a guy I've heard plays pretty sporty chess.... to close a loop...


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01-13-2017, 11:13 AM

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Originally Posted by mikepage View Post
a guy I've heard plays pretty sporty chess.... to close a loop...
Very true. Its going to be a fun one to sweat.
  
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01-13-2017, 08:32 PM

If you really want to kill pool , make an accurate rating system that is used in every tournament and league.
  
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01-14-2017, 06:11 AM

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Originally Posted by BeiberLvr View Post
Well that's obviously false considering you have to chirp in anytime Fargo is mentioned, and always with the same nonsense.

Listen. If you want your idol to have a higher rating, this is what he needs to do. Play more tournaments that have players rated higher than him, and beat those players. Also, he'll need to beat the lower ranked players as well, but make sure it's by a decent margin.

There's a little bit more to it, but that will get him headed in the right direction.
lol my idol......and i give a sh1t about his rating, his "lesser skillset" gives me even more pleasure when he kicks your posterboy in a big final again! as said hes only a very good exemple how good fargo is working!
another question, how many matches or years do you need to play to have a "real" rating? i think 3 years should be enough for a player who competes on the worldstage, right? so, be honest now, how would you rank those following players, especially considering their progress and that half of efrens and bustis money is from challenge games? and i know its about rack difference blablabla and not tourneys, but hey, what else can we use to judge a player, other than fargo?

fargo nr 17

Name:  azb busti.PNG
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fargo nr 23

Name:  azb efren.PNG
Views: 113
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fargo nr 30

Name:  azb albin.PNG
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thats not even close, and i bet with a closer look youŽll find alot of those exemples......
and then theres mosconi, 2 even ranked teams meet every year to play some short races (which can win anyone, right?) with stupid breakrules, also scotch doubles with loud fans around , but one even ranked team just cant cope with that (not even at home lol) and gets whopped year by year by year by year by year by year! that also gives me the hint that the US players might be a bit overrated by fargo, which is not that surprising to me, considering the barboxes and the weaker playing field over there!
guess it could work decent in the US only where the majority plays on barboxes, but worldwide its a joke IMO
over and out


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