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14th Amendment Question - 01-10-2017, 11:46 PM

Can someone, anyone explain to me in what way birth right citizenship is helpful to our country? Or how it's "fair" to the babies and their mamas? And not having it would be taking the rights of what citizens? And why we are the only influential country where citizenship is coveted to allow this?

This is one I simply don't understand what constituency benefits from this and allows it to continue. Sure you can quip it's democrat voters but there aren't enough of them for this to never have been seriously challenged at this moment in history.

Whom and what gives this life?

I know Trump has made noise about ending it. Is this in the realm of possibility? Any more than his presidency itself was? Will congress go along and refer it to the states if our President pushes it? Will the states go along? Has there ever been a better time than now? Is it in fact, now or never to end this?

JC


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01-11-2017, 06:26 AM

That whole Due Process thing is malarkey, eh?





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01-11-2017, 06:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC View Post
Can someone, anyone explain to me in what way birth right citizenship is helpful to our country? Or how it's "fair" to the babies and their mamas? And not having it would be taking the rights of what citizens? And why we are the only influential country where citizenship is coveted to allow this?

This is one I simply don't understand what constituency benefits from this and allows it to continue. Sure you can quip it's democrat voters but there aren't enough of them for this to never have been seriously challenged at this moment in history.

Whom and what gives this life?

I know Trump has made noise about ending it. Is this in the realm of possibility? Any more than his presidency itself was? Will congress go along and refer it to the states if our President pushes it? Will the states go along? Has there ever been a better time than now? Is it in fact, now or never to end this?

JC
I guess we could start with questioning your citizenship, right?


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01-11-2017, 06:36 AM

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Originally Posted by JC View Post
Can someone, anyone explain to me in what way birth right citizenship is helpful to our country? Or how it's "fair" to the babies and their mamas? And not having it would be taking the rights of what citizens? And why we are the only influential country where citizenship is coveted to allow this?

This is one I simply don't understand what constituency benefits from this and allows it to continue. Sure you can quip it's democrat voters but there aren't enough of them for this to never have been seriously challenged at this moment in history.

Whom and what gives this life?

I know Trump has made noise about ending it. Is this in the realm of possibility? Any more than his presidency itself was? Will congress go along and refer it to the states if our President pushes it? Will the states go along? Has there ever been a better time than now? Is it in fact, now or never to end this?

JC
I believe the framers of the our Constitution were mainly planters in an agrarian society and birthright citizenship has everything to do with the "soil" you were born on. A very romantic idea but apparently important to the wealthy farmer framers of our Constitution. After all, we do defend our "land." JMHO.


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Talking 01-11-2017, 06:49 AM


Trump could issue a piece of paper and stop immigration
for say 4 or 8 years and see how that works out.

What would an EO look like retroactive to 2008?





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01-11-2017, 07:17 AM

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Originally Posted by philly View Post
I believe the framers of the our Constitution were mainly planters in an agrarian society and birthright citizenship has everything to do with the "soil" you were born on. A very romantic idea but apparently important to the wealthy farmer framers of our Constitution. After all, we do defend our "land." JMHO.
That's also a very romantic way to look at it.....but isn't it a bit more down to earth (no pun intended lol) to realise that it was far more a case of English Common Law of the time forming the underlying basis of how they framed citizenship issues in the USC?

The Uk, as with multiple other developed nations of the world, have in the meantime moved on in various stages to where they stand today on that issue ie with no remaining "birthplace citizenship entitlement" on their statute books.....which seems to be the "odd man out" position that JC is alluding to regarding the USA.


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01-11-2017, 08:19 AM

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Originally Posted by billiardthought View Post
I guess we could start with questioning your citizenship, right?
That would be a good place to start yes. And then we can work our way back to the question I asked and maybe come up with some answers that make sense. No one has even attempted to answer the primary question which is in what way does this benefit our country and it's citizens? I suspect that answer to that is that it in no way does but I'm open minded is that's not correct.


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01-11-2017, 08:23 AM

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Originally Posted by JC View Post
That would be a good place to start yes. And then we can work our way back to the question I asked and maybe come up with some answers that make sense. No one has even attempted to answer the primary question which is in what way does this benefit our country and it's citizens? I suspect that answer to that is that it in no way does but I'm open minded is that's not correct.


JC
How did you get your citizenship?


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01-11-2017, 08:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC View Post
Can someone, anyone explain to me in what way birth right citizenship is helpful to our country? Or how it's "fair" to the babies and their mamas? And not having it would be taking the rights of what citizens? And why we are the only influential country where citizenship is coveted to allow this?

This is one I simply don't understand what constituency benefits from this and allows it to continue. Sure you can quip it's democrat voters but there aren't enough of them for this to never have been seriously challenged at this moment in history.

Whom and what gives this life?

I know Trump has made noise about ending it. Is this in the realm of possibility? Any more than his presidency itself was? Will congress go along and refer it to the states if our President pushes it? Will the states go along? Has there ever been a better time than now? Is it in fact, now or never to end this?

JC
I think it was primarily to address the citizenship of former slaves in the aftermath of the Civil War. IMO, it's long since served its usefulness and the birth right portion should be removed.


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01-11-2017, 08:27 AM

Citizenship in the US is for sale and this has nothing to do with the 14 amendment.
  
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01-11-2017, 08:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC View Post
That would be a good place to start yes. And then we can work our way back to the question I asked and maybe come up with some answers that make sense. No one has even attempted to answer the primary question which is in what way does this benefit our country and it's citizens? I suspect that answer to that is that it in no way does but I'm open minded is that's not correct.


JC
Given the percentage of births in USA that are to illegal immigrant parents, in the short/medium term birthplace citizenship entitlement reduces the number of illegal immigrants you would otherwise have


Mike

Last edited by memikey; 01-12-2017 at 03:49 AM.
  
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01-11-2017, 09:09 AM

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Originally Posted by memikey View Post
Given the percentage of births in USA that are to illegal immigrant parents, in the short/medium term birthplace citizenship entitlement reduces the number of illegal immigrants you would otherwise have
Put a sock in it windbag.....
Just kidding Mike. Good morning to you.
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01-11-2017, 10:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC View Post
Can someone, anyone explain to me in what way birth right citizenship is helpful to our country? Or how it's "fair" to the babies and their mamas? And not having it would be taking the rights of what citizens? And why we are the only influential country where citizenship is coveted to allow this?

This is one I simply don't understand what constituency benefits from this and allows it to continue. Sure you can quip it's democrat voters but there aren't enough of them for this to never have been seriously challenged at this moment in history.

Whom and what gives this life?

I know Trump has made noise about ending it. Is this in the realm of possibility? Any more than his presidency itself was? Will congress go along and refer it to the states if our President pushes it? Will the states go along? Has there ever been a better time than now? Is it in fact, now or never to end this?

JC
Not sure you will ever get an answer to your question(s) that you will accept, but here :

http://www.constitution.org/col/intent_14th.htm

Different time, different people, different intellects.

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01-11-2017, 11:05 AM

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How did you get your citizenship?
Moses Chaplin Immigrated from England in the 1500's. He was the stud of my line, born in England and died in New Hampshire. That dude had courage. Along the way the country was claimed at the point of a gun barrel from it's old owners. 400 years later I trickled out the ball sack of his descendant.

So if new people from another place want to now claim this country I suggest they arm themselves and give it a go. That is how things are settled in case you haven't notice. Good luck to them. Sorry about you and Michelle's hope being gone.

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01-11-2017, 11:08 AM

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Originally Posted by DaveK View Post
Not sure you will ever get an answer to your question(s) that you will accept, but here :

http://www.constitution.org/col/intent_14th.htm

Different time, different people, different intellects.

Dave
Exactly my question, how does this benefit our country today?

Forget about it's intent. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

What has it done for us lately? Is it an idea whose day has passed?

JC


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