Diamond Tables and the bank shot

R

Raider510

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just got back from the BCAPL Championships in Vegas and I have a question for anyone who played on the tables. Is it just me or were the banks coming up short all the time? I talked to a couple other players who are much better than me and they said the exact same thing.

I'm not a pro bank shot artist but I have a reasonable idea of where a bank shot should end up. Time and time again I was off by maybe 5 or 6 inches?

What's the deal?
 
joelpope

joelpope

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Welcome to the "best" table made

Just different I guess. Not a fan personally.

Actually, all the other tables you have ever played on bank long :)
 
Goldy

Goldy

Beating The Internet
Silver Member
Raider510 said:
Just got back from the BCAPL Championships in Vegas and I have a question for anyone who played on the tables. Is it just me or were the banks coming up short all the time? I talked to a couple other players who are much better than me and they said the exact same thing.

I'm not a pro bank shot artist but I have a reasonable idea of where a bank shot should end up. Time and time again I was off by maybe 5 or 6 inches?

What's the deal?
Click to expand...

You have to understand the Diamond Billiard Table was produced by many many great minds.

Banks come up short for several reasons. Speed, Angle, Spin, Cut. I have found when you stroke and cut the ball properly and add just a bit more spin than you need, you end up countering that factor.

If you've grown accustomed to other tables over the years, this is the biggest gripe about the diamond table. But nonetheless, this situation helps you sometimes. :)

Zach.
 
R

Raider510

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I love playing on Diamonds, they are so true (and fast as hell lol) but I was kinda put off by the banking difference. I wish we had more in our area to shoot on, I think with enough practice on them I wouldn't gripe so much. Been shooting on 9 foot Olhausens:embarrassed2:
 
bob c

bob c

In the Eye of the Storm
Silver Member
The newer Diamonds with the blue (instead of red) logo inlaid in the rail correct this issue IMO.

bob c
 
R

risky biz

Banned
bob c said:
The newer Diamonds with the blue (instead of red) logo inlaid in the rail correct this issue IMO.

bob c
Click to expand...

They do. They bank more like a Brunswick. When I brought this up quite a while ago I got mostly a response about Diamonds having the best rails in the world blah, blah, blah, etc., along with some sincere advice about how to learn how to bank. From what I've gathered here in other threads (probably imperfectly) the new blue logo tables haven't changed the cushions used, just repositioned them based on advice form Real King Cobra. I think he commented that they now bank truer.
 
Gunn_Slinger

Gunn_Slinger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I started out banking on victor tables....there were a lot of them on the east coast, under various names ( c p dean, conn billiards, etc ) . You may have played on a victor and not known what it was. It is what I call a generic banking table....you split the angle and cut it in..draw , top , center english....medium-hard , medium-soft, medium....didnt change the angle of the bank. Gandy's played similar with the old wool cloth....not with simonis! Then came gold crowns with " speed rails ". Now the speed of the cue ball changes the bank angle. So does the english ( draw,follow,middle ). Ok, took me a year to learn to bank on a crown.
Now comes diamonds...short short short! I played in Grady's tourney at gulf port ms in 2004 ... first time on diamonds. Split the angle, cut in the bank...short. Add a little side spin ....long! Draw...shorter. Follow.. still short! I'm dead. After 5 days of missing banks, I had to over cut a bank to make it. Back to gold crowns in January...helpless! I hope diamond can " fix " the banking problem with their tables...they are great " playing " tables....banks...not so good. IMO
P.S.
My buddy, Mike Surber, could bank on anything! so...it can be done.
 
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John Brumback

John Brumback

New member
Silver Member
IMO You should have adjusted.You knew they were banking short,why didn't you allow for that? I love how Diamond tables bank and play.
But with any table and depending on where you are,you are going to have to do some adjusting.Weather,location,upstairs,downstairs,lots of people close to where you are playing,all of these things are going to affect how ANY kind of table plays and banks.Like some have said, take some speed off of the shots when and if you think the table Is banking short.Or just over cut them enough.I over cut them anyway to get a better angle and to make the pocket play as big as I can make it play.That right there will make you a better banker if you learn how to do just that.Good luck and I hope this helps.John Brumback
 
Q

Quesports

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
John Brumback said:
IMO You should have adjusted.You knew they were banking short,why didn't you allow for that? I love how Diamond tables bank and play.
But with any table and depending on where you are,you are going to have to do some adjusting.Weather,location,upstairs,downstairs,lots of people close to where you are playing,all of these things are going to affect how ANY kind of table plays and banks.Like some have said, take some speed off of the shots when and if you think the table Is banking short.Or just over cut them enough.I over cut them anyway to get a better angle and to make the pocket play as big as I can make it play.That right there will make you a better banker if you learn how to do just that.Good luck and I hope this helps.John Brumback
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This is exactly what great pool players do. If you cannot adjust to the conditions of each table quicker than the other player guess who will be racking the next game.. Great post by a champion!
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
John Brumback said:
IMO You should have adjusted.You knew they were banking short,why didn't you allow for that? I love how Diamond tables bank and play.
But with any table and depending on where you are,you are going to have to do some adjusting.Weather,location,upstairs,downstairs,lots of people close to where you are playing,all of these things are going to affect how ANY kind of table plays and banks.Like some have said, take some speed off of the shots when and if you think the table Is banking short.Or just over cut them enough.I over cut them anyway to get a better angle and to make the pocket play as big as I can make it play.That right there will make you a better banker if you learn how to do just that.Good luck and I hope this helps.John Brumback
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Aw, come on man!

Whadda you know>!!?:eek::D
 
Aaron_S

Aaron_S

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
John Brumback said:
IMO You should have adjusted.You knew they were banking short,why didn't you allow for that? I love how Diamond tables bank and play.
But with any table and depending on where you are,you are going to have to do some adjusting.Weather,location,upstairs,downstairs,lots of people close to where you are playing,all of these things are going to affect how ANY kind of table plays and banks.Like some have said, take some speed off of the shots when and if you think the table Is banking short.Or just over cut them enough.I over cut them anyway to get a better angle and to make the pocket play as big as I can make it play.That right there will make you a better banker if you learn how to do just that.Good luck and I hope this helps.John Brumback
Click to expand...

Heads up, AZB - free banking advice from a world class banker is not to be ignored, and this is a great tip.

Aaron
 
W

Wileydog

Banned
First thing I do when I get to a table is shoot from diamond 6 to diamond 3 to kick to the corner pocket. Adjust until it goes in. Then test my adjustment for all other kicks for 1, 2 or 3 rail kicks. Banks would require same adjustment.
 
poolhustler

poolhustler

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
John Brumback said:
IMO You should have adjusted.You knew they were banking short,why didn't you allow for that? I love how Diamond tables bank and play.
But with any table and depending on where you are,you are going to have to do some adjusting.Weather,location,upstairs,downstairs,lots of people close to where you are playing,all of these things are going to affect how ANY kind of table plays and banks.Like some have said, take some speed off of the shots when and if you think the table Is banking short.Or just over cut them enough.I over cut them anyway to get a better angle and to make the pocket play as big as I can make it play.That right there will make you a better banker if you learn how to do just that.Good luck and I hope this helps.John Brumback
Click to expand...

Adjusting to the table is the key!!!
 
elvicash

elvicash

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
John Brumback said:
IMO You should have adjusted.You knew they were banking short,why didn't you allow for that? I love how Diamond tables bank and play.
But with any table and depending on where you are,you are going to have to do some adjusting.Weather,location,upstairs,downstairs,lots of people close to where you are playing,all of these things are going to affect how ANY kind of table plays and banks.Like some have said, take some speed off of the shots when and if you think the table Is banking short.Or just over cut them enough.I over cut them anyway to get a better angle and to make the pocket play as big as I can make it play.That right there will make you a better banker if you learn how to do just that.Good luck and I hope this helps.John Brumback
Click to expand...

John that is the difference between players and champions. Players do what they know and champions do what they have to get the results. The champions watcha nd adjust and then they trust the adjustment.

You better watch out buddy if you keep telling people that trick about opening the pockets the world will fill with better bankers in a hurry. Next thing I know you will be telling them to use the center english on the cue ball or high definitley minimize the draw then they will know a huge part of your system.

You buddy elvis - I love the circus maybe I will get to see one one of these days.
 
R

risky biz

Banned
Raider510 said:
Just got back from the BCAPL Championships in Vegas and I have a question for anyone who played on the tables. Is it just me or were the banks coming up short all the time? I talked to a couple other players who are much better than me and they said the exact same thing.

I'm not a pro bank shot artist but I have a reasonable idea of where a bank shot should end up. Time and time again I was off by maybe 5 or 6 inches?

What's the deal?
Click to expand...

You played on different tables and now you know there's a difference which disoriented you. The relevant point is that you weren't aware before that there would be a significant difference on a Diamond vs. the Olhausen's you're accustomed to. That knowledge would have prepared you beforehand to focus on adjusting prior to your match games.

Oh, yeah- the banking lessons and condescending comments in the five or six posts above won't hurt even if they aren't exactly relevant to your OP.

At least now there hasn't been any disputing that there is a significant difference.

And now there's a difference between blue logo and red logo Diamonds.
 
L

LSU1018

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So if you are overcutting the bank, do you adjust by hitting it firmer normally or just by hitting inside english?
 
Aaron_S

Aaron_S

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
LSU1018 said:
So if you are overcutting the bank, do you adjust by hitting it firmer normally or just by hitting inside english?
Click to expand...

John may have a different take on it, but my thought is to shorten it up with speed alone and to avoid using side english on banks whenever possible.

Aaron
 
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