Is it just me or do these tables SUCK to work on??? They are great to play on but...
PS.. Found two more 9 foters with Artemis Intercontinantel #66 flat side up (canvas on top). I have pics on phone, don't know how to post them.
Is it just me or do these tables SUCK to work on??? They are great to play on but...
What is it that sucks about working on a Diamond?
(fair warning: dont shoot at your own foot, there are potential customers reading this)
PS.. Found two more 9 foters with Artemis Intercontinantel #66 flat side up (canvas on top). I have pics on phone, don't know how to post them.
No offense but we've tried to explain this issue a few times already:
For an American pocket table, assuming that your subrail height and angle is correct first, you would install the Intercontinental cushion with the canvas facing up.
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Is it just me or do these tables SUCK to work on??? They are great to play on but...
PS.. Found two more 9 foters with Artemis Intercontinantel #66 flat side up (canvas on top). I have pics on phone, don't know how to post them.
I'm assuming from your description you're talking about the Diamond Professionals, and I think they are GREAT to work on. In my opinion, they are the best designed tables I've seen. GC1 blinds are also a royal pain for one guy to put up at times. Hell, some of them are a pain if you've got 3 guys! Most table brands and models have their issues and pros/cons. The thing I like about Diamonds though...there's not much wiggle room. If you get the table together, there's a much better chance you've got it together right. Furniture table rails and even frames don't have to go together square. Have you ever worked on an ATI? Absolute nightmare if you don't have that frame perfectly square, because sometimes you might not notice until you're done and trying to bolt the rails on and they won't line up. That's a mistake you'll make ONCE. My point is, I love the way the Diamond rails go together. All of those extra pieces help to ensure those rails and blinds are tight, the look is clean, and the rails are square. Oh and the pocket screws aren't bad as long as you take a second to make sure they're started straight before firing them in, but you should be don't that with any hardware.
My only complaint on the Professionals is the screws that come with the table to attach the leather pocket tabs to the bottom of the frame don't need to be that long. I don't run mine up all the way, but I've worked on way too many that have been and they bottom out on the bottom side of the slate and split apart the backing in the pocket area.
By the way, yes, installing Intercontinental 66 on a pocket pool table, the canvas side goes up, and the logo goes on the bottom side facing in toward the play area.
Its not the cushions that is causing the problem you're talking about, it's the sub-rails the cushions are mounted to that is the problem.
This a quote from the Mueller web site...
This super fast and accurate cushion rubber will give you years of quality play and service. They are full gum-rubber, Premium-grade cushion quality unlike extruded rubber which has fillers added. Measures 1 1/4" x 1 5/16". Check measurements to order correct size. Six piece set. 48" per piece. Control fabric on the back and underside. Made in Germany.
Four of these tables are 9 foot Diamonds with factory instaled rubber. Intercontinental #66 will instal canvas up or canvas down with little (if any) change in rail height.
I'll offer you the same challenge as my last post... Go try some stiff cross sides on some older cloth with #66 on it, bet they play short.I am aware of rail calibration and this not the issue, check it out.
THanks for your time... David
This a quote from the Mueller web site...
This super fast and accurate cushion rubber will give you years of quality play and service. They are full gum-rubber, Premium-grade cushion quality unlike extruded rubber which has fillers added. Measures 1 1/4" x 1 5/16". Check measurements to order correct size. Six piece set. 48" per piece. Control fabric on the back and underside. Made in Germany.
I still don't see where it says Back and Underside...
Quote from :
http://www.muellers.com/48-Artemis-Pool-No-66-Rubber--Setand6,630.html
I read "Control fabric on the top and back."
I think I was looking at a different cushion sorry for my ignorance.
I will let the pro's chime in, interesting topic. I wonder how much of a difference it would make.
This link is for "Artemis POOL No. 66" (K 66) not Intercontinental No. 66. If you go back to this link look under rubber cushions they are calling it "Intercontinental Pool No. 66" "fabric on bottom"
I would like to state the Diamond tables are the BEST on todays market, they play great and are very well built. They are however not mechanic friendly tables to work on. The rail/apron assebly is just about imposible for one person to deal with. The bevel on the rail top for the pockets does not have room for staples at the top part of pocket faceing on the back side and the pocket screws are a pain.
Mr. Bond, with your Chicago Billiard Museum background I find it hard to believe that you have not seen your share of antique carom tables. Carom rubber went canvas side down, I have done my homework. Artemis intercontinental #66 IS carom rubber sold in tne foot lenghts and the canvas IS on the flat side (bottom). Look at the pics... First pic showes no canvas on round side (top), can not see bottom. The second pic showes the canvas on the round side (top), Did they make a change?
My first observation is the one rail bank on used cloth, when hit with a FIRM stroke they bank a half diamond short. The second observation is on a table that has a weekly break contest. This three ball break is racked with all three in line, there is a large hole in the bed cloth where the back ball strikes the rail hard. I believe the balls are being traped between the bed and the round side of the rubber and causeing these issues.
Please spend a minute and check this out, if you have some 66 in stock look at it, the canvas is on the flat side
We do awesome antique resterations and great service work (Indy pool players want us to do their work) Again... Please take a look at this...
One more note, we will be on a road trip your way and would love to check out your museum and hope to meet you... We WILL be in tuch..
Let me try and explain the Artemis cushions, maybe you'll have a little better understanding of the control canvas. When Brunswick built their billiards tables, they didn't come out with a new billiard billiard cushion to use, instead they turned their K55 pool cushions upside down so that 2 things happened, 1 being the nose height was higher, and 2 the cushions would bank better when playing 3C because the canvas control strip when mounted canvas up, would stiffen the banks, but mounted canvas down it would allow the 3C balls to bank truer because the balls.wouldn't stiffen off the banks nearly as much because the cushions played softer. So, the Artemis Intercontinental no. 66, which is a K55 profile being used for "pool" and "straight rail billiards" is mounted control canvas up, but just like a lot of table mechanics out there, as well as billiard retail stores, they also swear by the fact that Accufast cushions and K66 profile cushions will not only fit, soppose to be, and will play perfect on a Brunswick or Diamond, and to that all I can say, is that they wouldn't know the differece between their ass...and a hole in the ground!
Glen
Let me try and explain the Artemis cushions, maybe you'll have a little better understanding of the control canvas. When Brunswick built their billiards tables, they didn't come out with a new billiard billiard cushion to use, instead they turned their K55 pool cushions upside down so that 2 things happened, 1 being the nose height was higher, and 2 the cushions would bank better when playing 3C because the canvas control strip when mounted canvas up, would stiffen the banks, but mounted canvas down it would allow the 3C balls to bank truer because the balls.wouldn't stiffen off the banks nearly as much because the cushions played softer. So, the Artemis Intercontinental no. 66, which is a K55 profile being used for "pool" and "straight rail billiards" is mounted control canvas up, but just like a lot of table mechanics out there, as well as billiard retail stores, they also swear by the fact that Accufast cushions and K66 profile cushions will not only fit, soppose to be, and will play perfect on a Brunswick or Diamond, and to that all I can say, is that they wouldn't know the differece between their ass...and a hole in the ground!
Glen
chalkdust; This is the link to the Mueller web site check it out said:And what I've been trying to say all along, is their web site has the wrong information, the way they're describing the Artemis is upside down.