SJM Slant on the 2017 Mosconi Cup

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Just got home from the Mosconi (spent a few days in Phoenix before returning to New York, hence the delay in my report). I saw what you saw and I won’t beat around the bush.

The Big Picture
In what was another painful-to-watch performance by Team USA at the Mosconi, little changed from a year ago, and American failure went according to the same script as usual, with offensive execution a little below Europe, pattern play a little below Europe, and defense, kicking and jumping way below Europe. As was the case a year ago, Europe’s players showed great all-around games, and American players were, once again, outclassed. From this fan’s vantage point, nothing was done to correct the greatest weakness of American teams past, which were in defense, kicking and jumping, especially the decision making that goes with these skills. Last year’s team had just one player who shone tactically, and that was Bergman, but Justin wasn’t on this year’s team. Billy Thorpe was, perhaps the only American who played well in most areas of the game. There was, generally, no increase in the pedigree of the American players in their execution of shots.

Count me among those surprised at how poorly it went, for I thought Team Europe would be weaker than it was. I think where I miscalculated was that while I thought Filler would be ready, it turned out he was superhuman. I didn’t expect that much form Alcaide, either, and David was sensational, and his jumping and kicking were just plain awesome. Shaw didn’t dominate as I thought he might, but still contributed. In the final analysis, I’m not convinced that this Team Europe was any stronger than last year’s team. The massacre, as I see it, is fully attributable to the poor play of Team USA.

1. Same Old Same Old – USA Terrible at Singles

As usual, we were schooled at singles. SVB probably should have beaten Shaw twice but giftwrapped Match 14, blowing two easy runouts in the last two racks of the match. Billy Thorpe had a nice win in singles. Team USA went 2-5 in singles.

2. Just as Bad at Doubles

We were 2-5 in doubles, but only due to fluking Match 6, in which two huge errors by Hatch were rescued by a fluke five ball and a fluke snooker after a missed seven. Even with those two fluked racks, Team USA only eked out a double hill win in that one. The Team Match was lost, as well.

3. Individual Members of Team USA

Skyler Woodward
Skyler looked very uncomfortable this year and had an awful Mosconi Cup. He’ll have to regroup after this disheartening effort, but I think he can.

Shane Van Boening
A disappointment again, but by my reckoning Shane played a little better than he did last year. His singles record was marred by the meltdown in Match 14 against Shaw, but he delivered nothing in doubles.

Billy Thorpe
After looking very nervous on Day 1, I thought Billy found his form and played some solid pool for the remainder of the Mosconi Cup. Billy looks like a key member of Team USA for years to come. The Mosconi stage isn’t too big for this young star.

Dennis Hatch
Despite being part of two wins, I though Hatch played only passably in one of those wins. Two fluke racks explained his double hill win in Match 6 and he really made a lot of mistakes in this Mosconi. Still, he played very well in his loss to Josh Filler, but making a mistake with a chance to go up 4-3 in the race to 5 led to a loss. As far as I’m concerned, Hatch’s refusal to shake Filler’s hand at the end of their match was disgraceful and reflects very poorly on Team USA’s professionalism. On the more positive side, though, Hatch has great team spirit and does what he can to fire up his teammates.

Oscar Dominguez
It was a disappointing Mosconi Cup for Oscar, although he did scrape out one win. He had a shocking miss on an eight ball to get to double hill that compromised his only chance at a win in singles. To me, Oscar looked nervous out there.

What Team USA Did Well
Honestly, nothing. It’s hard to find an area in which I suspect Team USA was pleased with its play.

What USA did Just Passably
I’d rate Team USA pattern play as passable, but, just as a year ago, inferior to that of Team Europe. Ball pocketing was just passable, comparable to that of a year ago. Breaking was passable, too.

What Team USA Did Poorly
I thought Team USA’s angle management was disappointing, worse than last year. Several poorly played angles led to a failure to run out racks that would be considered routine by the world’s premier players.

For the fourth straight year, the defense and kicking were a great disappointment, possibly excepting Thorpe. Unlike Team Europe, the US rarely employed the two-way shot, although Shane played a couple of them. As I’ve noted in the past, it is impossible to win a Mosconi Cup playing this poorly in the moves game, and this is one of the big differences between Team USA and Team Europe. Poor defense and kicking by Team USA ensure Europe many extra good looks at the table.

The Coaching
The Johann experiment must be viewed as a total failure, and Team USA has now failed to win even a single day of play in the Mosconi for five years.

I saw no progress of any kind here. Both conceptualization and execution were just as poor on Team USA as they were a year ago. Nonetheless, Johann made a sincere effort and I’ll both thank and commend him for that. Johann is a class act in every respect. Given his many successes, his reputation is not tarnished, but I don’t think he gave American fans anything to grab onto for the future.

The Mosconi Cup Socially
I caught up with a lot of friends at the event itself, but catching up with Jean Balukas was a truly unexpected pleasure. Jean and I used to play golf and pool together back in the day and it was fun kicking around old times. Jean is soooooo much fun to be around and her smile lights up any room.

The Hall of Fame dinner was a hoot, and I had the honor of sitting at Darren Appleton’s table. I met some nice people at the dinner, but the real treat was catching up with about twenty Hall of Famers in attendance, every single one of which I know and all of whom I saw compete except Eddie Kelly. Darren Appleton and Tom Rossman are very worthy of the respective inductions, and they were rightly honored by a very large and impressive gathering of pool royalty and aficionados.

The European victory party was also good fun, and I popped in for about an hour and a half. I was especially pleased to catch up with two old friends whom I’d not seen for quite a while, Jeanette Lee and Emily Duddy. I got to chat with Luke Riches, too, whom I’d met briefly in 2013, and I have to say that I like him. Unfortunately, I knocked Luke’s drink right out of his hand, but he seemed to take it in stride and declined my offer to buy him another round.

Finally, I spent two nights playing pool and billiards with my friends Jim (Cuebuddy) and John and we had a blast. We went to Griff’s on Wednesday night and we all loved the place. When you’re in Vegas, make sure you pay Griff’s a visit. It’s a room every serious player needs to see and Mark Griffin, as usual, sets the standard.

The Mosconi Event From a Fan's Perspective
In a word, delightful. Matchroom puts on better events than anyone in pool. Neutral racker, no reracks, short races, shot clock, and very short breaks between matches ensure that the excitement is maintained for the length of every session. My only complaint is that the seating bleachers weren’t steep enough and seeing over the person sitting in front of you was difficult at times.

Thanks to all at Matchroom. You guys are a credit to our game and set the standard for producing events.

Sizing It Up for Next Year
I’m sure that what I’m going to say will be unpopular and some will disagree, but popularity is not what I’m seeking in this post. As I see it, American pool is not producing enough well-rounded players right now and Europe is mass producing them. Lest we forget, in October, Europe swept the medals at the US Open (Shaw, Kaci, Sanchez-Ruiz). In November, Alex Kazakis won over a tough field at the Joss Tour's Ocean State Championships. Maybe we shouldn’t be so surprised by the trouncing at the Mosconi. European pool is rock solid right now. As was the case a year ago, America has a lot of catching up to do, and in my opinion, American pool made no progress in 2017.
 
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jokrswylde

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
J European pool is rock solid right now. As was the case a year ago, America has a lot of catching up to do, and in my opinion, American pool made no progress in 2017.

Thanks for the write up. It really gives a sense of atmosphere that those of us watching at home can't get. As far as what I quoted, I agree wholeheartedly, however 20+ years of working around elite athletics has shown me that most times these things are cyclical. The US WILL win the Cup again, and I wouldn't be surprised if the era of Skye, Justin, Thorpe, et al produces that win.
 

boogeyman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for the write up. It really gives a sense of atmosphere that those of us watching at home can't get. As far as what I quoted, I agree wholeheartedly, however 20+ years of working around elite athletics has shown me that most times these things are cyclical. The US WILL win the Cup again, and I wouldn't be surprised if the era of Skye, Justin, Thorpe, et al produces that win.

My take is the U.S. might win the MC again.
I don't think it's a guarantee.

The OP just laid-out the details.
The European players have surpassed the U.S. players in nearly every facet.
Yes, it's cyclical, but don't expect that particular cycle to end anytime soon.

European players--even a second- or third-tier team, beats our U.S. "best."
It's not a knock on the U.S., it's just a fact.

Get used to it folks, the rest of the world is now the leader in pool/billiard games.
 
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snucar

World Snucar Champion
Silver Member
That's a pretty fair analysis on this year's MC. 2 things I don't completely agree with...firstly, I don't think the main reason of USA's defeat is mostly the better defense, kicking and jumping. Even in the shot-making department Europe was vastly superior to USA. I just couldn't believe how many long balls USA was missing. Secondly, I don't think that Thorpe did well, I think his performance was ordinary at best. Very poor at long key shots, defensively way behind the elite players, questionable shot selection at times and I would even dare to say his technique needs massive improvement. His cue ball was constantly struggling to reach ideal position. For the moment I find him an overrated player, lacking the talent to reach higher standards. Bergman in comparison is far more talented than him. I think that surprising win over Wu at the US Open made him look a lot better than he actually is. Against a Wu, that is more than clear that he's going probably through a bad spell of form, judging by his early exit from the World Championship!
 

kollegedave

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Questions for SJM

SJM,

As usual, your posts are based firmly in smart observation. I have several questions for you:

1) Given the recent U.S. record in event, the U.S. is clearly outclassed by the Europeans. However, the U.S. tailspin (to me) seemed to get much worse after the 11-2 pounding in the U.K. Is it your assessment that Europe's lopsided victories in the past weigh on the current U.S. players?

2) To me, recently the U.S. players seem to be more nervous than I am used to seeing them. I wonder if it might not be a bad idea to include some older players that have had some success at the Mosconi Cup in next years team--especially Johnny Archer? What say you?

3) The MC format seems to take SVB out his normal game; he has not had a whole lot of success historically in this event, what is your take on the prospect of fielding a team without SVB? While he is a great player, his play in this event, does not seem to match with his abilities.

kollegedave




Just got home from the Mosconi (spent a few days in Phoenix before returning to New York, hence the delay in my report). I saw what you saw and I won’t beat around the bush.

The Big Picture
In what was another painful-to-watch performance by Team USA at the Mosconi, little changed from a year ago, and American failure went according to the same script as usual, with offensive execution a little below Europe, pattern play a little below Europe, and defense, kicking and jumping way below Europe. As was the case a year ago, Europe’s players showed great all-around games, and American players were, once again, outclassed. From this fan’s vantage point, nothing was done to correct the greatest weakness of American teams past, which were in defense, kicking and jumping, especially the decision making that goes with these skills. Last year’s team had just one player who shone tactically, and that was Bergman, but Justin wasn’t on this year’s team. Billy Thorpe was, perhaps the only American who played well in most areas of the game. There was, generally, no increase in the pedigree of the American players in their execution of shots.

Count me among those surprised at how poorly it went, for I thought Team Europe would be weaker than it was. I think where I miscalculated was that while I thought Filler would be ready, it turned out he was superhuman. I didn’t expect that much form Alcaide, either, and David was sensational, and his jumping and kicking were just plain awesome. Shaw didn’t dominate as I thought he might, but still contributed. In the final analysis, I’m not convinced that this Team Europe was any stronger than last year’s team. The massacre, as I see it, is fully attributable to the poor play of Team USA.

1. Same Old Same Old – USA Terrible at Singles

As usual, we were schooled at singles. SVB probably should have beaten Shaw twice but giftwrapped Match 14, blowing two easy runouts in the last two racks of the match. Billy Thorpe had a nice win in singles. Team USA went 2-5 in singles.

2. Just as Bad at Doubles

We were 2-5 in doubles, but only due to fluking Match 6, in which two huge errors by Hatch were rescued by a fluke five ball and a fluke snooker after a missed seven. Even with those two fluked racks, Team USA only eked out a double hill win in that one. The Team Match was lost, as well.

3. Individual Members of Team USA

Skyler Woodward
Skyler looked very uncomfortable this year and had an awful Mosconi Cup. He’ll have to regroup after this disheartening effort, but I think he can.

Shane Van Boening
A disappointment again, but by my reckoning Shane played a little better than he did last year. His singles record was marred by the meltdown in Match 14 against Shaw, but he delivered nothing in doubles.

Billy Thorpe
After looking very nervous on Day 1, I thought Billy found his form and played some solid pool for the remainder of the Mosconi Cup. Billy looks like a key member of Team USA for years to come. The Mosconi stage isn’t too big for this young star.

Dennis Hatch
Despite being part of two wins, I though Hatch played only passably in one of those wins. Two fluke racks explained his double hill win in Match 6 and he really made a lot of mistakes in this Mosconi. Still, he played very well in his loss to Josh Filler, but making a mistake with a chance to go up 4-3 in the race to 5 led to a loss. As far as I’m concerned, Hatch’s refusal to shake Filler’s hand at the end of their match was disgraceful and reflects very poorly on Team USA’s professionalism. On the more positive side, though, Hatch has great team spirit and does what he can to fire up his teammates.

Oscar Dominguez
It was a disappointing Mosconi Cup for Oscar, although he did scrape out one win. He had a shocking miss on an eight ball to get to double hill that compromised his only chance at a win in singles. To me, Oscar looked nervous out there.

What Team USA Did Well
Honestly, nothing. It’s hard to find an area in which I suspect Team USA was pleased with its play.

What USA did Just Passably
I’d rate Team USA pattern play as passable, but, just as a year ago, inferior to that of Team Europe. Ball pocketing was just passable, comparable to that of a year ago. Breaking was passable, too.

What Team USA Did Poorly
I thought Team USA’s pattern play was disappointing, worse than last year. Several poorly played angles led to a failure to run out racks that would be considered routine by the world’s premier players.

For the fourth straight year, the defense and kicking were a great disappointment, possibly excepting Thorpe. Unlike Team Europe, the US rarely employed the two-way shot, although Shane played a couple of them. As I’ve noted in the past, it is impossible to win a Mosconi Cup playing this poorly in the moves game, and this is one of the big differences between Team USA and Team Europe. Poor defense and kicking by Team USA ensure Europe many extra good looks at the table.

The Coaching
The Johann experiment must be viewed as a total failure, and Team USA has now failed to win even a single day of play in the Mosconi for five years.

I saw no progress of any kind here. Both conceptualization and execution were just as poor on Team USA as they were a year ago. Nonetheless, Johann made a sincere effort and I’ll both thank and commend him for that. Johann is a class act in every respect. Given his many successes, his reputation is not tarnished, but I don’t think he gave American fans anything to grab onto for the future.

The Mosconi Cup Socially
I caught up with a lot of friends at the event itself, but catching up with Jean Balukas was a truly unexpected pleasure. Jean and I used to play golf and pool together back in the day and it was fun kicking around old times. Jean is soooooo much fun to be around and her smile lights up any room.

The Hall of Fame dinner was a hoot, and I had the honor of sitting at Darren Appleton’s table. I met some nice people at the dinner, but the real treat was catching up with about twenty Hall of Famers in attendance, every single one of which I know and all of whom I saw compete except Eddie Kelly. Darren Appleton and Tom Rossman are very worthy of the respective inductions, and they were rightly honored by a very large and impressive gathering of pool royalty and aficionados.

The European victory party was also good fun, and I popped in for about an hour and a half. I was especially pleased to catch up with two old friends whom I’d not seen for quite a while, Jeanette Lee and Emily Duddy. I got to chat with Luke Riches, too, whom I’d met briefly in 2013, and I have to say that I like him. Unfortunately, I knocked Luke’s drink right out of his hand, but he seemed to take it in stride and declined my offer to buy him another round.

Finally, I spent two nights playing pool and billiards with my friends Jim (Cuebuddy) and John and we had a blast. We went to Griff’s on Wednesday night and we all loved the place. When you’re in Vegas, make sure you pay Griff’s a visit. It’s a room every serious player needs to see and Mark Griffin, as usual, sets the standard.

The Mosconi Event From a Fan's Perspective
In a word, delightful. Matchroom puts on better events than anyone in pool. Neutral racker, short races, shot clock, and very short breaks between matches ensure that the excitement is maintained for the length of every session. My only complaint is that the seating bleachers weren’t steep enough and seeing over the person sitting in front of you was difficult at times.

Thanks to all at Matchroom. You guys are a credit to our game and set the standard for producing events.

Sizing It Up for Next Year
I’m sure that what I’m going to say will be unpopular and some will disagree, but popularity is not what I’m seeking in this post. As I see it, American pool is not producing enough well-rounded players right now and Europe is mass producing them. Lest we forget, in October, Europe swept the medals at the US Open (Shaw, Kaci, Sanchez-Ruiz). In November, Alex Kazakis won over a tough field at the Ocean State Championships. Maybe we shouldn’t be so surprised by the trouncing at the Mosconi. European pool is rock solid right now. As was the case a year ago, America has a lot of catching up to do, and in my opinion, American pool made no progress in 2017.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Good analysis Stu. If I said that they would want to crucify me! :thumbup:
 

BuddyWing

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Very good report Stu ,I agree 100% .
It was good to meet you at the Mosconi Cup.
Bud
 

Apocalypse2017

Welcome to the resistance
Silver Member
Nice write up Stu

The coaching is not the answer.

defense, kicking, and pressure USA fails at in this event.


The point system needs to be changed. We should be able to pick any 5 players... And after we move the 9 back on the spot and break from anywhere. Go USA ;)

Lets start a Ronnie O'Sullivan Cup and play one pocket...right?!
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
My take is the U.S. might win the MC again.
I don't think it's a guarantee.

The OP just laid-out the details.
The European players have surpassed the U.S. players in nearly every facet.
Yes, it's cyclical, but don't expect that particular cycle to end anytime soon.

European players--even a second- or third-tier team, beats our U.S. "best."
It's not a knock on the U.S., it's just a fact.

Get used to it folks, the rest of the world is now the leader in pool/billiard games.

The US WILL win again, but the path to victory is a difficult one. Winning nine ball is about a) gaining run out chances and executing the run outs when they are presented.

A. Gaining Run Out Chances

There are four ways in which run out chances are gained:

1) the run out chances you create with your break
2) the run out chances you create by winning safety battles
3) the run out chances that land in your lap due to opponent errors
4) the run out chances that you get due to luck

Run out chances you create with your break
It is in this area where America is quite solid, comparable to Europe. Team USA created countless opportunities with its break. In some Mosconi Cups, Team USA has been the better breaking team.

Run out chances you create by winning safety battles
Unfortunately, this is the area in which Team USA has failed for years and there is no end in sight to American mediocrity in this area. Europe plays better defense, kicks better and jumps better than America year after year, and the result is a lot of won safety battles and a lot of extra chances to run out.

Run out chances that land in your lap due to opponent errors
As Europe executes the offense a little better than America, sitting back and waiting for Europe to make mistakes is a losing proposition.

Run out chances that you get due to luck
This part of the game exists and will always exist.

Summary
I feel I've pointed out why Europe gets more chances to run out than Team USA year after year. At this juncture, the US can only rescue itself by creating far more chances with the break than Europe does. It might happen at some point and that's why Team USA will win the Mosconi somewhere down the road even if the holes aren't plugged.

B. Executing the Run Outs When they are Presented

Executing run outs presented comes down to pocketing and position play, which is comprised of pattern play, stroke execution and speed control.

Ball Pocketing
US ball pocketing is adequate, but not as good as Europe. Here, having a good, smooth stroke and follow through are key. Only such a stroke will be truly repeatable and only a repeatable stroke will hold up under pressure.

Angle Selection
Selection of position paths was a weakness of Team USA at the 2017 Mosconi and it spelled the end of some run out chances. US pattern play is decent, but not classic and Europe has the edge in this area.

Stroke Execution
As well as shooting straight, one must execute the stroke selected, whether it is high follow, low draw with left english or anything else. In this area, I'd rate America as proficient, but below Europe.

Speed Control
American speed control is satisfactory, and position play errors that sometimes seem attributable to errors in speed are often attributable to poor pattern play.

Summary
When it comes to running out, the US has fallen behind Europe in both ball pocketing and position play. Of course, SVB runs out as well as any player in the world, but always falls short at the Mosconi. Europe seems to complete nearly all of the relatively routine runouts while America butchers far too many of them.

Conclusion

The skills gap is substantial right now between America and Europe and coaching and hard work are going to be the key to reducing the size of that gap, and 2017 is a writeoff as far as the accomplishment of this goal. American shot selection is as much the problem as American shot execution. One thing is for sure: until America learns how to beat Europe to the shot, it will have to outbreak Europe in a big way to keep thing close in the Mosconi. It's a tall order, and no motivator or sports psychologist can make a winner of a team that lacks both the conceptualization and execution skills of its opponent.
 
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garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just got home from the Mosconi (spent a few days in Phoenix before returning to New York, hence the delay in my report). I saw what you saw and I won’t beat around the bush.

The Big Picture
In what was another painful-to-watch performance by Team USA at the Mosconi, little changed from a year ago, and American failure went according to the same script as usual, with offensive execution a little below Europe, pattern play a little below Europe, and defense, kicking and jumping way below Europe. As was the case a year ago, Europe’s players showed great all-around games, and American players were, once again, outclassed. From this fan’s vantage point, nothing was done to correct the greatest weakness of American teams past, which were in defense, kicking and jumping, especially the decision making that goes with these skills. Last year’s team had just one player who shone tactically, and that was Bergman, but Justin wasn’t on this year’s team. Billy Thorpe was, perhaps the only American who played well in most areas of the game. There was, generally, no increase in the pedigree of the American players in their execution of shots.

Count me among those surprised at how poorly it went, for I thought Team Europe would be weaker than it was. I think where I miscalculated was that while I thought Filler would be ready, it turned out he was superhuman. I didn’t expect that much form Alcaide, either, and David was sensational, and his jumping and kicking were just plain awesome. Shaw didn’t dominate as I thought he might, but still contributed. In the final analysis, I’m not convinced that this Team Europe was any stronger than last year’s team. The massacre, as I see it, is fully attributable to the poor play of Team USA.

1. Same Old Same Old – USA Terrible at Singles

As usual, we were schooled at singles. SVB probably should have beaten Shaw twice but giftwrapped Match 14, blowing two easy runouts in the last two racks of the match. Billy Thorpe had a nice win in singles. Team USA went 2-5 in singles.

2. Just as Bad at Doubles

We were 2-5 in doubles, but only due to fluking Match 6, in which two huge errors by Hatch were rescued by a fluke five ball and a fluke snooker after a missed seven. Even with those two fluked racks, Team USA only eked out a double hill win in that one. The Team Match was lost, as well.

3. Individual Members of Team USA

Skyler Woodward
Skyler looked very uncomfortable this year and had an awful Mosconi Cup. He’ll have to regroup after this disheartening effort, but I think he can.

Shane Van Boening
A disappointment again, but by my reckoning Shane played a little better than he did last year. His singles record was marred by the meltdown in Match 14 against Shaw, but he delivered nothing in doubles.

Billy Thorpe
After looking very nervous on Day 1, I thought Billy found his form and played some solid pool for the remainder of the Mosconi Cup. Billy looks like a key member of Team USA for years to come. The Mosconi stage isn’t too big for this young star.

Dennis Hatch
Despite being part of two wins, I though Hatch played only passably in one of those wins. Two fluke racks explained his double hill win in Match 6 and he really made a lot of mistakes in this Mosconi. Still, he played very well in his loss to Josh Filler, but making a mistake with a chance to go up 4-3 in the race to 5 led to a loss. As far as I’m concerned, Hatch’s refusal to shake Filler’s hand at the end of their match was disgraceful and reflects very poorly on Team USA’s professionalism. On the more positive side, though, Hatch has great team spirit and does what he can to fire up his teammates.

Oscar Dominguez
It was a disappointing Mosconi Cup for Oscar, although he did scrape out one win. He had a shocking miss on an eight ball to get to double hill that compromised his only chance at a win in singles. To me, Oscar looked nervous out there.

What Team USA Did Well
Honestly, nothing. It’s hard to find an area in which I suspect Team USA was pleased with its play.

What USA did Just Passably
I’d rate Team USA pattern play as passable, but, just as a year ago, inferior to that of Team Europe. Ball pocketing was just passable, comparable to that of a year ago. Breaking was passable, too.

What Team USA Did Poorly
I thought Team USA’s pattern play was disappointing, worse than last year. Several poorly played angles led to a failure to run out racks that would be considered routine by the world’s premier players.

For the fourth straight year, the defense and kicking were a great disappointment, possibly excepting Thorpe. Unlike Team Europe, the US rarely employed the two-way shot, although Shane played a couple of them. As I’ve noted in the past, it is impossible to win a Mosconi Cup playing this poorly in the moves game, and this is one of the big differences between Team USA and Team Europe. Poor defense and kicking by Team USA ensure Europe many extra good looks at the table.

The Coaching
The Johann experiment must be viewed as a total failure, and Team USA has now failed to win even a single day of play in the Mosconi for five years.

I saw no progress of any kind here. Both conceptualization and execution were just as poor on Team USA as they were a year ago. Nonetheless, Johann made a sincere effort and I’ll both thank and commend him for that. Johann is a class act in every respect. Given his many successes, his reputation is not tarnished, but I don’t think he gave American fans anything to grab onto for the future.

The Mosconi Cup Socially
I caught up with a lot of friends at the event itself, but catching up with Jean Balukas was a truly unexpected pleasure. Jean and I used to play golf and pool together back in the day and it was fun kicking around old times. Jean is soooooo much fun to be around and her smile lights up any room.

The Hall of Fame dinner was a hoot, and I had the honor of sitting at Darren Appleton’s table. I met some nice people at the dinner, but the real treat was catching up with about twenty Hall of Famers in attendance, every single one of which I know and all of whom I saw compete except Eddie Kelly. Darren Appleton and Tom Rossman are very worthy of the respective inductions, and they were rightly honored by a very large and impressive gathering of pool royalty and aficionados.

The European victory party was also good fun, and I popped in for about an hour and a half. I was especially pleased to catch up with two old friends whom I’d not seen for quite a while, Jeanette Lee and Emily Duddy. I got to chat with Luke Riches, too, whom I’d met briefly in 2013, and I have to say that I like him. Unfortunately, I knocked Luke’s drink right out of his hand, but he seemed to take it in stride and declined my offer to buy him another round.

Finally, I spent two nights playing pool and billiards with my friends Jim (Cuebuddy) and John and we had a blast. We went to Griff’s on Wednesday night and we all loved the place. When you’re in Vegas, make sure you pay Griff’s a visit. It’s a room every serious player needs to see and Mark Griffin, as usual, sets the standard.

The Mosconi Event From a Fan's Perspective
In a word, delightful. Matchroom puts on better events than anyone in pool. Neutral racker, short races, shot clock, and very short breaks between matches ensure that the excitement is maintained for the length of every session. My only complaint is that the seating bleachers weren’t steep enough and seeing over the person sitting in front of you was difficult at times.

Thanks to all at Matchroom. You guys are a credit to our game and set the standard for producing events.

Sizing It Up for Next Year
I’m sure that what I’m going to say will be unpopular and some will disagree, but popularity is not what I’m seeking in this post. As I see it, American pool is not producing enough well-rounded players right now and Europe is mass producing them. Lest we forget, in October, Europe swept the medals at the US Open (Shaw, Kaci, Sanchez-Ruiz). In November, Alex Kazakis won over a tough field at the Ocean State Championships. Maybe we shouldn’t be so surprised by the trouncing at the Mosconi. European pool is rock solid right now. As was the case a year ago, America has a lot of catching up to do, and in my opinion, American pool made no progress in 2017.
Dead-on sir. Very on-point assessment.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
SJM,

As usual, your posts are based firmly in smart observation. I have several questions for you:

1) Given the recent U.S. record in event, the U.S. is clearly outclassed by the Europeans. However, the U.S. tailspin (to me) seemed to get much worse after the 11-2 pounding in the U.K. Is it your assessment that Europe's lopsided victories in the past weigh on the current U.S. players?

2) To me, recently the U.S. players seem to be more nervous than I am used to seeing them. I wonder if it might not be a bad idea to include some older players that have had some success at the Mosconi Cup in next years team--especially Johnny Archer? What say you?

3) The MC format seems to take SVB out his normal game; he has not had a whole lot of success historically in this event, what is your take on the prospect of fielding a team without SVB? While he is a great player, his play in this event, does not seem to match with his abilities.

kollegedave

Hi Dave. These are good questions:

1) Yes, the 2013 failure was surely the beginning of this bad run, but let's not overlook that Matchroom picked that team. For me, personally, the 2014 trouncing, in which Mark Wilson had picked all five players, including a couple of players that I feel hadn't earned a spot, was even more disheartening. No doubt, the many failures weigh heavily on Team USA and add pressure.

2) Personally, I don't want veterans unless they earn it. The 49 year old Souquet had an amazing year on the Eurotour and was there on merit for Europe, not because of his experience, and he played great. There are no 40+ players in American pool that are showing much form of late in rotation games. I don't think their presence would add anything, and it would detract from the development of this generation of American players.

3) SVB is an anomaly. It cannot be said that he never thrives in this situation, because he has won the World Cup of Pool, a Matchroom team event with these rules and conditions, although the races were longer. When I think of SVB, I think of a guy who excels the most when it's a) rack your own, b) long races, c) break from the box and d) winner breaks. The Mosconi takes all of these away and with the tough break rule used, there aren't that many break and run racks. There are, however, a lot of tactical battles, and it is not in this area where SVB plays his best pool.
 
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336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
It was great seeing you, Jay. Hope our paths cross again soon.

Stu,
I met you in greensboro, nc a couple of years ago at an Az get together. I don't follow this Mosconi Cup thing all that close but I read your assessment and have a question.

How much time do our players get with their coach?
 

crabbcatjohn

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Seemed to me the tables had the biggest impact. As the US guys never play on that type table it gives the Euros a huge advantage.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Stu,
I met you in greensboro, nc a couple of years ago at an Az get together. I don't follow this Mosconi Cup thing all that close but I read your assessment and have a question.

How much time do our players get with their coach?

Yes, I'm remember you well.

The coach, a proven winner, was named very early in the year so there was maximum opportunity for preparation. The team was picked in full by October. It is said there was continuous communication between the coach and his players and that there was a boot camp training session at some point, but there were no signs of improvement in either shot conceptualization or in execution of shots.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Seemed to me the tables had the biggest impact. As the US guys never play on that type table it gives the Euros a huge advantage.

Could you clarify this? Why would the top Europeans be more comfortable with this table than Americans? It's not what they play on in Eurotour events or WPA events.

Team USA's only Mosconi Cup rookie, Billy Thorpe, had no problem playing on this kind of equipment for the first time.
 
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Quesports

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
IMO the best analysis of the 2017 Mosconi Cup yet! Thanks for taking the time to put your thoughts to this event on the forum. The American's were totally dominated on the table and your views are spot on in my book!
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Yes, I'm remember you well.

The coach, a proven winner, was named very early in the year so there was maximum opportunity for preparation. The team was picked in full by October. It is said there was continuous communication between the coach and his players and that there was a boot camp training session at some point, but there were no signs of improvement in either shot conceptualization or in execution of shots.

Thank you for your reply. I'm unsure who the coach was. I have my opinion on who it could or should have been. I think a great deal rests on the learning philosophy of the person doing the training but since pool is a very subjective sport what works for one might not always work for another. A persons instruction theories are pretty important. How many years have we lost the Mosconi? and who was the last winning years coach? Anyone answer please..
 
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