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What to do when your layout spells disaster
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skipbales
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What to do when your layout spells disaster - 01-25-2018, 12:04 PM

In a match last night I had a layout where the stripes were an easy runout and the solids were totally tied up, My opponent had done a dry break and left me no good starter ball. I felt it was do or die and tried a combo (my weakest link), missed the shot, left a hangar and my fate was sealed.

My opponent messed up and hooked himself giving me an unexpected shot. I had one open ball with no hope for position or a break out. One isolated ball shooting away from where it needed to be and the wrong angle to do anything within reason. The stripes had 2 hangers, one at each end and 2 other balls near pockets (for clarification, not hangers but so close as to be effectively a hanger and blocking pockets from key directions. Basically total directional control) making a safety almost impossible. I scratched making my one open ball and going for the gold with an impossible draw shot. It was an easy out for my opponent and I lost 10-1.

I simply could not see anything constructive I could do. On reflection I should probably have tried to bank something into something to make his life more difficult. I am wondering if anyone has any tips on escaping these situations. Oddly I have seen poor players reverse everything with a wild hit that moves everything everywhere and they end up better off then they were. I almost resorted to something of the kind.

Are there any training videos on turning around a bad layout, or tips, etc. I was looking for ideas. This is me Calling home for advice.

Last edited by skipbales; 01-26-2018 at 09:08 AM.
  
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01-25-2018, 01:52 PM

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Originally Posted by skipbales View Post
In a match last night I had a layout where the stripes were an easy runout and the solids were totally tied up, My opponent had done a dry break and left me no good starter ball. I felt it was do or die and tried a combo (my weakest link), missed the shot, left a hangar and my fate was sealed.

My opponent messed up and hooked himself giving me an unexpected shot. I had one open ball with no hope for position or a break out. One isolated ball shooting away from where it needed to be and the wrong angle to do anything within reason. The stripes had 2 hangers, one at each end and 2 other balls near pockets making a safety almost impossible. I scratched making my one open ball and going for the gold with an impossible draw shot. It was an easy out for my opponent and I lost 10-1.

I simply could not see anything constructive I could do. On reflection I should probably have tried to bank something into something to make his life more difficult. I am wondering if anyone has any tips on escaping these situations. Oddly I have seen poor players reverse everything with a wild hit that moves everything everywhere and they end up better off then they were. I almost resorted to something of the kind.

Are there any training videos on turning around a bad layout, or tips, etc. I was looking for ideas. This is me Calling home for advice.
Maybe a safe was in order?
I've played safe many times when my opponents break left me with nothing.
It's better then selling out.


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Its so good my last and only cube was stolen off the table when I went to the bath room.
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01-25-2018, 04:58 PM

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Originally Posted by measureman View Post
Maybe a safe was in order?
I've played safe many times when my opponents break left me with nothing.
It's better then selling out.
If there was a safe to be had I sure couldn't find it. That was the problem. With hangers everywhere and only one of my balls in the open I could not think of a single place to hide.
  
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01-25-2018, 05:15 PM

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Originally Posted by skipbales View Post
If there was a safe to be had I sure couldn't find it. That was the problem. With hangers everywhere and only one of my balls in the open I could not think of a single place to hide.
Sometimes thats the way it happens.


Playng cue- Troy Downey
Back up cue - The Mighty Lucasi Cocobolo
Still straighter than 90 % of all Meucci cues ever made
"Russian Magic Chalk- good enough to steal".

Russian Magic chalk is the nuts.
Its so good my last and only cube was stolen off the table when I went to the bath room.
They left my $1000 cue but stole my chalk, how strong is that?


The Truth: If you have a stroke the gear don't matter... If you don't have a stroke the gear won't help.
The above quote by Softshot
  
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01-25-2018, 05:39 PM

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Sometimes thats the way it happens.
Yes. I am hoping for some creative "destruction techniques". One I saw Tor Lowry teach, for when you can't hit your ball, was to take the intentional foul and hit one of their balls into trouble with at least one other, so ball in hand would only clear one of the problems.

I was looking for a shot that would scramble multiple balls and tie them up or something. I just could not think of anything to even try.

The closest I came was to make my ball with high left to go cross table and pocket one of his hangers and try to stay by the pocket as a fairly good safety. The problem with that one is it is hard to execute too. I was 40% trying it in practice.
  
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01-25-2018, 06:31 PM

You were too impatient with your first shot. With a layout like that you can't afford to let your opponent shoot an open shot. You should have played safe until you got a shot. Let your opponent be the impatient one.


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01-25-2018, 10:30 PM

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Originally Posted by skipbales View Post
... I was looking for a shot that would scramble multiple balls and tie them up or something. I just could not think of anything to even try....
If there was no good shot, then there was no good shot. But if you play a shot that moves most of the balls on the table you have a chance to move some of his balls to bad spots or freeze him behind a ball. Not a large chance, but some chance. I think one instructor even teaches this technique.

Without a specific diagram, it's hard to recommend specific shots.

One example of a possible play: leave the cue ball on the cushion and perfectly straight in on a shot with no other reasonable shot for him.


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01-25-2018, 11:24 PM

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Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
If there was no good shot, then there was no good shot. But if you play a shot that moves most of the balls on the table you have a chance to move some of his balls to bad spots or freeze him behind a ball. Not a large chance, but some chance. I think one instructor even teaches this technique.

Without a specific diagram, it's hard to recommend specific shots.

One example of a possible play: leave the cue ball on the cushion and perfectly straight in on a shot with no other reasonable shot for him.
Yes. I know it is not possible to help me with a specific shot here and your idea of some kind of scramble shot is what I should have tried. I was trying to use a sniper rifle when a shotgun would have been the better choice. I might have been able to hit one of my clustered balls into the others and get them all moving. That would likely have cleared at least one of his hangers and something would have ended up tieing up something of his.

I did nothing to change the table. Instead of shooting a single low percentage shot or safety I should have gone for a "re - break" shot. It is like knocking the table over in a chess match. Sometimes it is the only way If I could have gotten 6 or 8 balls moving the entire makeup of the table would have been different. In fact I would have felt less helpless. I simply had nothing to lose.

Any strategy at all is better than shooting a shot you know won't get you anywhere and leaves you with that feeling of "there is no way I can win this one". There is always some way.
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01-26-2018, 06:47 AM

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Originally Posted by skipbales View Post
In a match last night I had a layout where the stripes were an easy runout and the solids were totally tied up, My opponent had done a dry break and left me no good starter ball. I felt it was do or die and tried a combo (my weakest link), missed the shot, left a hangar and my fate was sealed.

My opponent messed up and hooked himself giving me an unexpected shot. I had one open ball with no hope for position or a break out. One isolated ball shooting away from where it needed to be and the wrong angle to do anything within reason. The stripes had 2 hangers, one at each end and 2 other balls near pockets making a safety almost impossible. I scratched making my one open ball and going for the gold with an impossible draw shot. It was an easy out for my opponent and I lost 10-1.

I simply could not see anything constructive I could do. On reflection I should probably have tried to bank something into something to make his life more difficult. I am wondering if anyone has any tips on escaping these situations. Oddly I have seen poor players reverse everything with a wild hit that moves everything everywhere and they end up better off then they were. I almost resorted to something of the kind.

Are there any training videos on turning around a bad layout, or tips, etc. I was looking for ideas. This is me Calling home for advice.
Amateurs sometimes forget they can play safe on all 15 and not just a set of balls. Often an initial safe is just the thing--but when I hear "impossible draw shot" I'm thinking you need a few lessons in creative 8-Ball. Could you have sunk one of the hangars and left the cue ball dead inside the pocket with a stop shot?


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01-26-2018, 09:01 AM

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Amateurs sometimes forget they can play safe on all 15 and not just a set of balls. Often an initial safe is just the thing--but when I hear "impossible draw shot" I'm thinking you need a few lessons in creative 8-Ball. Could you have sunk one of the hangars and left the cue ball dead inside the pocket with a stop shot?
Sure with a foul but that gives him ball in hand. The hangers were all his, not mine. He had hangers in 2 pockets and two almost hangers preventing a safety from two more directions. I had one open ball at one end of the table and all the rest in an unbroken cluster around the spot at the other end of the table.

crazy break. All the stripes spread and covered all the pockets. All the solids except one clustered. On my opening shot I knew if I could just pocket a stripe I was out. The problem was I had only two different combos to pick from, not one direct shot at an open ball or one of the hangers. I thought the combo was relatively easy and if I made it I was out. I missed the combo and the situation reversed. He never should have missed with the table he had. I was lucky to even get a shot. It was just that I could not see anything constructive to do with that shot.

Everyone keeps saying to hit a safety. With 3 corner pockets covered with an opponents hangers a safety is almost impossible. All my balls except one were clustered around the spot and I was at the other end of the table. If I hit one of my balls to a rail there was no place to hide and he had a hanger to start his run no matter where I left the cue ball.

As I mentioned, the only safety I saw was to pocket my one open ball (shooting away from the spot) with top left to have the cue ball go across table, pocket one of his hangers and stay by that pocket. That would have left him a full table combo to a hanger to get started. The problem is that "safety" took real precision to execute. I practiced it and was less than 40% at being able to execute it. Mostly the cue ball barely missed the hanger and left it for him. Sometimes I made it but rolled out an inch too far and he could see one of his other hangers. Once I even followed it in.

The real point is that even one successful safety would still not have solved the problem. There was no lock up safety possibility, only long distance type safeties. He would still have a huge advantage and I would be looking to try another almost impossible safety if he could simply hit any of his balls. I needed the entire layout to be rearranged to get back in control.

Last edited by skipbales; 01-26-2018 at 09:14 AM.
  
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01-29-2018, 06:37 AM

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Sure with a foul but that gives him ball in hand. The hangers were all his, not mine. He had hangers in 2 pockets and two almost hangers preventing a safety from two more directions. I had one open ball at one end of the table and all the rest in an unbroken cluster around the spot at the other end of the table.

crazy break. All the stripes spread and covered all the pockets. All the solids except one clustered. On my opening shot I knew if I could just pocket a stripe I was out. The problem was I had only two different combos to pick from, not one direct shot at an open ball or one of the hangers. I thought the combo was relatively easy and if I made it I was out. I missed the combo and the situation reversed. He never should have missed with the table he had. I was lucky to even get a shot. It was just that I could not see anything constructive to do with that shot.

Everyone keeps saying to hit a safety. With 3 corner pockets covered with an opponents hangers a safety is almost impossible. All my balls except one were clustered around the spot and I was at the other end of the table. If I hit one of my balls to a rail there was no place to hide and he had a hanger to start his run no matter where I left the cue ball.

As I mentioned, the only safety I saw was to pocket my one open ball (shooting away from the spot) with top left to have the cue ball go across table, pocket one of his hangers and stay by that pocket. That would have left him a full table combo to a hanger to get started. The problem is that "safety" took real precision to execute. I practiced it and was less than 40% at being able to execute it. Mostly the cue ball barely missed the hanger and left it for him. Sometimes I made it but rolled out an inch too far and he could see one of his other hangers. Once I even followed it in.

The real point is that even one successful safety would still not have solved the problem. There was no lock up safety possibility, only long distance type safeties. He would still have a huge advantage and I would be looking to try another almost impossible safety if he could simply hit any of his balls. I needed the entire layout to be rearranged to get back in control.
Thanks for the clarification. Everyone gets bad rolls sometimes, but use me or another teacher who teaches 8-Ball strategy if you want more offense in your game.


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