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denwhit
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Unlike Golfers, Pool Players do not need Instruction - 12-15-2017, 09:38 AM

Mystifying to me. The world's top professionals, at the top golfers and tennis players strive and work out frequently with their coaches and teachers, making the changes hoping to get even better. But pool players think they can get it by playing. Is it money or mentality?


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12-15-2017, 11:22 AM

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Originally Posted by denwhit View Post
Mystifying to me. The world's top professionals, at the top golfers and tennis players strive and work out frequently with their coaches and teachers, making the changes hoping to get even better. But pool players think they can get it by playing. Is it money or mentality?
Many pro pool players have taken lessons from instructors here and there on certain aspects of the game. But there's a lot more body motion involved in a golf swing, more things that need to be fine tuned, so maybe that's why more pro golfers seek professional instruction.


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12-15-2017, 02:56 PM

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Mystifying to me. The world's top professionals, at the top golfers and tennis players strive and work out frequently with their coaches and teachers, making the changes hoping to get even better. But pool players think they can get it by playing. Is it money or mentality?
I think a lot of it is just ego/hardheadedness. They just play their way out of any slump with zero thought of asking for help.
  
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12-15-2017, 03:44 PM

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Many pro pool players have taken lessons from instructors here and there on certain aspects of the game. But there's a lot more body motion involved in a golf swing, more things that need to be fine tuned, so maybe that's why more pro golfers seek professional instruction.
I totally disagree. Robin has 3-4 master players that take lessons frequently. There is always something that the game needs work on just like the golf professionals. If you were from around here, I'd offer to pay for your lesson, if you were not happy just to see what you think. Robin is working writing 8 ball patterns for the projector pro billiards. I already have his 9 ball patterns and 70 transitional patterns. What a wonderful thing for the guy that has his own pool table.


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12-15-2017, 03:48 PM

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I think a lot of it is just ego/hardheadedness. They just play their way out of any slump with zero thought of asking for help.
I see so many guys that are shooting shots that they could make maybe 1 of 5 times, where the safety shot in the same instance could take place 4 of 5 and still get another shot.


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12-15-2017, 04:57 PM

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Originally Posted by denwhit View Post
Mystifying to me. The world's top professionals, at the top golfers and tennis players strive and work out frequently with their coaches and teachers, making the changes hoping to get even better. But pool players think they can get it by playing. Is it money or mentality?
Speaking for myself, I would never employ the services of a pool instructor unless that instructor was a top money player himself or herself.
It sounds like your man has been around the game for a while and has had to play for his own money. I respect people like that.
I've had some "back and forths" with some instructors on here before about this.
My position remains unchanged.
Having someone like Don Watson work with you on position playing simplified is powerful medicine.
Having Robin Bell work with you on jumping balls is powerful medicine.
Having Grady Matthews work with you on One Pocket is powerful medicine.
Having Stan Shuffett work with you on Aiming and Stroking is powerful medicine.
Having Barry Stark work with you on pure hits is powerful medicine.
Etc....etc....etc.
Let the buyer beware, more or less....see my point?
I believe most pool players have the same opinion....they'd like to have the information and help, but they just don't accept getting it from some guy who chokes his guts out or won't even expose his game to the risk of being crushed by another player.
  
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12-15-2017, 05:43 PM

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Speaking for myself, I would never employ the services of a pool instructor unless that instructor was a top money player himself or herself.
It sounds like your man has been around the game for a while and has had to play for his own money. I respect people like that.
I've had some "back and forths" with some instructors on here before about this.
My position remains unchanged.
Having someone like Don Watson work with you on position playing simplified is powerful medicine.
Having Robin Bell work with you on jumping balls is powerful medicine.
Having Grady Matthews work with you on One Pocket is powerful medicine.
Having Stan Shuffett work with you on Aiming and Stroking is powerful medicine.
Having Barry Stark work with you on pure hits is powerful medicine.
Etc....etc....etc.
Let the buyer beware, more or less....see my point?
I believe most pool players have the same opinion....they'd like to have the information and help, but they just don't accept getting it from some guy who chokes his guts out or won't even expose his game to the risk of being crushed by another player.
I totally disagree. Someone that has taught the game for 30 years knows what you need after about 15 minutes of playing. Can you tell me what Butch Harmon has won in world wide events? Yet, he teaches the last top 10 golfers for the last 20 years and has been number one in golf teaching. Having won big events means nothing as far as someone's skill in teaching, in fact, it probably means you'll get less for the money.


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12-15-2017, 06:30 PM

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I totally disagree. Someone that has taught the game for 30 years knows what you need after about 15 minutes of playing. Can you tell me what Butch Harmon has won in world wide events? Yet, he teaches the last top 10 golfers for the last 20 years and has been number one in golf teaching. Having won big events means nothing as far as someone's skill in teaching, in fact, it probably means you'll get less for the money.
Somehow I just cannot compare a golf teacher to a pool teacher.
In the first place, golf is an athletic endeavor. There are many facets of it...(of which I know nothing...having never played it).
But there are a lot more muscles required, a lot more body motions to control, the course itself is not flat and level like a pool table, the cups on the greens are placed in different places, the golfer has to allow for the lay of the land to predict his rolls. He competes against the weather too.
Pool, on the other hand is played on a flat smooth surface...inside a building (except in some countries.)
Good eyesight and the ability to line up the shots and deliver the stroke in a straight pure manner, then get position...and that's about it.
Pool players can be fat, lazy, drunk, on dope, or upright and clean or dirty and asleep on a park bench.
I'd say the concept of "pressure" is about equal in the two...but one is a game and the other is an athletic sport, in my opinion .
Guess we'll just always disagree on that...but the top pool instructors are few and far between in my opinion. I think most just want a stable of customers from which they can steadily drain money. Notice I did say "most"...not all.
  
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12-15-2017, 06:46 PM

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Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
Somehow I just cannot compare a golf teacher to a pool teacher.
In the first place, golf is an athletic endeavor. There are many facets of it...(of which I know nothing...having never played it).
But there are a lot more muscles required, a lot more body motions to control, the course itself is not flat and level like a pool table, the cups on the greens are placed in different places, the golfer has to allow for the lay of the land to predict his rolls. He competes against the weather too.
Pool, on the other hand is played on a flat smooth surface...inside a building (except in some countries.)
Good eyesight and the ability to line up the shots and deliver the stroke in a straight pure manner, then get position...and that's about it.
Pool players can be fat, lazy, drunk, on dope, or upright and clean or dirty and asleep on a park bench.
I'd say the concept of "pressure" is about equal in the two...but one is a game and the other is an athletic sport, in my opinion .
Guess we'll just always disagree on that...but the top pool instructors are few and far between in my opinion. I think most just want a stable of customers from which they can steadily drain money. Notice I did say "most"...not all.
I think AF, the British lady gives lessons. At about $500 per 3-4 hours. When a student was asked what he learned, he said: "Wow, she can play pool". Still could not tell what he learned during the session. That is what someone will get with a top name pro.


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12-15-2017, 07:49 PM

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I think AF, the British lady gives lessons. At about $500 per 3-4 hours. When a student was asked what he learned, he said: "Wow, she can play pool". Still could not tell what he learned during the session. That is what someone will get with a top name pro.
That's a powerful argument you have there, no question about it.
It sounds to me like a lot of money spent. And then for him to not be able to say precisely what he learned....??
My point exactly........Let the buyer beware.
I know a guy who's a fishing guide on big reservoirs. His business card states..."No Fish, You Don't Pay". "You Didn't Like Your Trip...You Don't pay".
I like that approach. Pool instructors should adapt that idea to their game also.

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12-15-2017, 10:09 PM

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I see so many guys that are shooting shots that they could make maybe 1 of 5 times, where the safety shot in the same instance could take place 4 of 5 and still get another shot.
That's the key to winning more games! Know your limitations and play high-percentage shots as often as possible. During practice or friendly games, it's good to work on some low-percentage shots so eventually they'll become part of your arsenal as more consistent high-percentage shots. But that doesn't mean to play timid, afraid of taking chances. Play smart, shoot the shots that give you the best opportunity to win, and shoot every shot like you expect it to work out as planned.


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12-15-2017, 10:14 PM

I know several professional pool instructors who follow this philosophy...I've had that same guarantee for more than 30 years.

Scott Lee
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I know a guy who's a fishing guide on big reservoirs. His business card states..."No Fish, You Don't Pay". "You Didn't Like Your Trip...You Don't pay".
I like that approach. Pool instructors should adapt that idea to their game also.


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12-15-2017, 10:30 PM

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I think AF, the British lady gives lessons. At about $500 per 3-4 hours. When a student was asked what he learned, he said: "Wow, she can play pool". Still could not tell what he learned during the session. That is what someone will get with a top name pro.
My mom used to say the smartest teachers are usually not the best teachers. She taught me to challenge my teachers and keep a healthy amount of skepticism for authority, which includes "certified" instructors. Teaching is a skillful art that doesn't necessarily coincide with teaching certificates or professional skill levels.

I've jammed with some great guitarists over the years, learned a little bit from each one, even from the ones that were learning from me. Pool is the same way. At a big tournament two weeks ago, I was watching a pro level player as he was watching other players. Neither of us were playing at the time, and I found it reassuring to see that he was studying the game just as I was studying the game, paying attention to what other players were doing right, or wrong, or maybe just different. Sometimes the best lessons come from average people.


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12-16-2017, 06:53 AM

I know what seeing a teacher has done for my game so I have to assume it's either ignorance, either the money involved, or not finding a qualified teacher that is respected in one's area. If one could afford it, why not go to someone that can improve your game? Just like golf or tennis.


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12-16-2017, 10:40 AM

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Mystifying to me. The world's top professionals, at the top golfers and tennis players strive and work out frequently with their coaches and teachers, making the changes hoping to get even better. But pool players think they can get it by playing. Is it money or mentality?
Is it money or mentality, you ask? It's money. How can anyone possibly compare sports that can earn players millions of dollars to pool?


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