Go Back   AzBilliards.com > Instruction & Ask the pros > Ask The Instructor
Reload this Page Unlike Golfers, Pool Players do not need Instruction
Reply
Page 3 of 4 123 4
 
Share Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old
  (#31)
FranCrimi
AzB Silver Member
FranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,405
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Dec 2010
   
12-18-2017, 08:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BilliardsAbout View Post
Money, mentality and culture of the sport--every golf club on Earth has a pro and likely several assistant pros, too. Most pool halls lost their in-house instructors and house men decades ago.

Me and other friends, teachers and pros, will play on amateur leagues for fun--just to hang with the guys and gals and so on. We've offered free lessons before and have been turned down by league mates trying to win championships! Do you know what's it like to get on airplanes and daylong car rides and stay in hotels just to have to teach someone who wants to pay for a lesson?
That's normal on an amateur level in any sport. Not everyone who plays a sport takes lessons. I'm not sure what you're trying to say in your last line.


Been Verified. Supporter of responsible teaching. Background checks for instructors, especially those who teach kids.
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#32)
denwhit
AzB Silver Member
denwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond repute
 
denwhit's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,205
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: USA
   
12-18-2017, 08:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
That's normal on an amateur level in any sport. Not everyone who plays a sport takes lessons. I'm not sure what you're trying to say in your last line.
He is absolutely right on with the golf professionals at the range and in the clubhouse. We all get to know them as they are part of the business. Same with the tennis pros. I would say 50% of all golfers take lessons from their pros. Maybe 1% of pool players take lessons. Most would not even be able to tell you who teaches. Besides, even if they did know, they are broke.


* Mark Gregory walnut rails
*RKC set up w/ 42 pt. leveling system
*ProjectorProBilliards MicroComputer
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#33)
Low500
AzB Silver Member
Low500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond reputeLow500 has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 475
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Apr 2017
   
12-18-2017, 09:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by denwhit View Post
He is absolutely right on with the golf professionals at the range and in the clubhouse. We all get to know them as they are part of the business. Same with the tennis pros. I would say 50% of all golfers take lessons from their pros. Maybe 1% of pool players take lessons. Most would not even be able to tell you who teaches. Besides, even if they did know, they are broke.
Who's broke? The teachers, the pool players, or all of 'em?
(congruence when posting is wonderful, you know)
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#34)
denwhit
AzB Silver Member
denwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond reputedenwhit has a reputation beyond repute
 
denwhit's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,205
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: USA
   
12-18-2017, 10:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
Who's broke? The teachers, the pool players, or all of 'em?
(congruence when posting is wonderful, you know)
Pool players.


* Mark Gregory walnut rails
*RKC set up w/ 42 pt. leveling system
*ProjectorProBilliards MicroComputer
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#35)
BasementDweller
AzB Silver Member
BasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Online
Posts: 2,970
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jul 2009
   
12-18-2017, 11:55 AM

There's another huge reason top players are skeptical about paying for instruction and it's because VERY few US instructors are either 1 -- willing to brag about their student's accomplishments which includes naming such students or 2 -- they flat out don't have a list of names they can point to of who they have worked with to PROVE their value.

Now I know this will rub some the wrong way but it's a fact. In other sports, players go to someone based on their reputation for working with top players. When it comes to pool in the US, you just don't hear this sort of talk and it leaves me puzzled. I know many instructors will now come along and say they have worked with many top players but which players and why no player endorsements?
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#36)
BasementDweller
AzB Silver Member
BasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Online
Posts: 2,970
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jul 2009
   
12-18-2017, 11:58 AM

Further -- I know it sort of a chicken and egg thing and also I've heard of different really good players working with Stan Shuffett but that's about it.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#37)
BilliardsAbout
Billiards.About.com
BilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond repute
 
BilliardsAbout's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,119
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Gainesville, FL
   
12-18-2017, 12:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BasementDweller View Post
There's another huge reason top players are skeptical about paying for instruction and it's because VERY few US instructors are either 1 -- willing to brag about their student's accomplishments which includes naming such students or 2 -- they flat out don't have a list of names they can point to of who they have worked with to PROVE their value.

Now I know this will rub some the wrong way but it's a fact. In other sports, players go to someone based on their reputation for working with top players. When it comes to pool in the US, you just don't hear this sort of talk and it leaves me puzzled. I know many instructors will now come along and say they have worked with many top players but which players and why no player endorsements?
Are you looking for instructors who work with top players or instructors who make lower-level players excel quickly?


-- Matt Sherman

Guide to Pool and Billiards, About.com
Instruction Staff, InsidePool Magazine
Author, book/DVD combo, Picture Yourself Shooting Pool
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#38)
BilliardsAbout
Billiards.About.com
BilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond repute
 
BilliardsAbout's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,119
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Gainesville, FL
   
12-18-2017, 12:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
That's normal on an amateur level in any sport. Not everyone who plays a sport takes lessons. I'm not sure what you're trying to say in your last line.
That is true. Not every amateur takes lessons. Comparing golf to pool though, the per capita is much lower for billiards, by a factor of about 1,000.

It is frustrating sometimes to travel far to give a lesson when nearby, students are less open (or frankly, cheap)!


-- Matt Sherman

Guide to Pool and Billiards, About.com
Instruction Staff, InsidePool Magazine
Author, book/DVD combo, Picture Yourself Shooting Pool
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#39)
BasementDweller
AzB Silver Member
BasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Online
Posts: 2,970
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jul 2009
   
12-18-2017, 12:34 PM

I'm clearly speaking about top-level players.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#40)
Scott Lee
AzB Silver Member

Scott Lee has a reputation beyond reputeScott Lee has a reputation beyond reputeScott Lee has a reputation beyond reputeScott Lee has a reputation beyond reputeScott Lee has a reputation beyond reputeScott Lee has a reputation beyond reputeScott Lee has a reputation beyond reputeScott Lee has a reputation beyond reputeScott Lee has a reputation beyond reputeScott Lee has a reputation beyond reputeScott Lee has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 15,465
vCash: 4100
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Now living in Largo FL
   
12-18-2017, 12:42 PM

Low500...Do you consider being a bigot a weakness? Here's some "genuine factual knowledge" for you...Not all "fat" people (there are MANY levels of being "fat") are fat by choice. Some have serious illnesses that cause that condition (or take medicine that does the same thing). For some it's just genetics. Your blanket statement just shows your ignorance...about this subject and many others. Have a nice day!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by Low500 View Post
I dislike fat people. I consider being fat a weakness.
That's just me, but what do I know? I'm just an old worn out pool player who really loves the game and likes to work and soak up genuine factual knowledge.


PBIA Master Instructor
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#41)
nobcitypool
AzB Silver Member
nobcitypool has a reputation beyond reputenobcitypool has a reputation beyond reputenobcitypool has a reputation beyond reputenobcitypool has a reputation beyond reputenobcitypool has a reputation beyond reputenobcitypool has a reputation beyond reputenobcitypool has a reputation beyond reputenobcitypool has a reputation beyond reputenobcitypool has a reputation beyond reputenobcitypool has a reputation beyond reputenobcitypool has a reputation beyond repute
 
nobcitypool's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 2,865
vCash: 500
iTrader: 40 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Noblesville, IN
   
12-18-2017, 03:32 PM

When the majority of pros today started playing, name the high level instructors that were available. And the internet wasn't even around, so how would you know about them?

Even now, there are 1/100th (probably less) the number of pool instructors as there are PGA Professionals. There are more PGA Professionals in indiana than there are pool instructors in the entire country.

My point is, the lack of availability of certified pool instructors makes it impossible to compare to golf and tennis.

Then there is simple demographics. How many golf and tennis pros came out of a country club environment? The vast majority. Compare that to pool professionals where many if not most came from modest financial backgrounds. Even among the pool professionals, most don't have the money to spend on professional pool instruction. Even the highest paid don't have the financial means to pay for a full time coach to travel with them.

There are some exceptionally great pool instructors that post in this forum regularly and have posted on this thread. I personally believe they could help any pool professional were that professional be willing to pay them and spend sufficient time working on what they're being taught. To say that professionals don't need professional pool instruction or couldn't be helped by it is absolutely absurd.


Playing Cue: Jensen with Revo 12.4 Shaft
Break Cue: OB Rift
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#42)
BasementDweller
AzB Silver Member
BasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Online
Posts: 2,970
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jul 2009
   
12-18-2017, 04:29 PM

nobcitypool said:
"To say that professionals don't need professional pool instruction or couldn't be helped by it is absolutely absurd."

I'm not sure anybody in this thread said such a thing. The question isn't could they benefit from such instruction but why don't they seek it out?

If Shane Van Boening worked with an instructor and came out of it saying that a certain instructor helped him correct a few minor things with his stroke and he's now playing the best pool of his life -- other pros would seek out this instructor's services. For some reason this rarely if ever happens.

Last edited by BasementDweller; 12-19-2017 at 06:39 AM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#43)
FranCrimi
AzB Silver Member
FranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond reputeFranCrimi has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,405
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Dec 2010
   
12-18-2017, 09:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by denwhit View Post
He is absolutely right on with the golf professionals at the range and in the clubhouse. We all get to know them as they are part of the business. Same with the tennis pros. I would say 50% of all golfers take lessons from their pros. Maybe 1% of pool players take lessons. Most would not even be able to tell you who teaches. Besides, even if they did know, they are broke.
I'd love to see a study done on the income levels of those who play golf vs. those who play pool.

My biggest issue in getting help with my game back when I was learning was, "Who can I trust?" There was really no way of knowing.

Even today, there are some with high reputations, who IMO, don't deserve them. However, put some real money out there and I guarantee that the cream will rise to the top and the incompetents won't be tolerated.


Been Verified. Supporter of responsible teaching. Background checks for instructors, especially those who teach kids.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#44)
BilliardsAbout
Billiards.About.com
BilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond reputeBilliardsAbout has a reputation beyond repute
 
BilliardsAbout's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,119
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Gainesville, FL
   
12-19-2017, 06:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BasementDweller View Post
I'm clearly speaking about top-level players.
Then you are making a mistake IMHO. Golfers don't need Tiger Woods's coach, they need people who get them breaking 100/90/80 quickly--same for pool.


-- Matt Sherman

Guide to Pool and Billiards, About.com
Instruction Staff, InsidePool Magazine
Author, book/DVD combo, Picture Yourself Shooting Pool
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#45)
BasementDweller
AzB Silver Member
BasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond reputeBasementDweller has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Online
Posts: 2,970
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jul 2009
   
12-19-2017, 06:35 AM

BilliardsAbout said:
"Then you are making a mistake IMHO. Golfers don't need Tiger Woods's coach, they need people who get them breaking 100/90/80 quickly--same for pool."

We aren't on the same page. I think I was pretty clear in what I wrote. I was talking about why top-players don't seek out instruction.

Last edited by BasementDweller; 12-19-2017 at 06:40 AM.
  
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 3 of 4 123 4

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.